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The destruction of Romulus was an act of revenge by the Dominion

Unimatrix Q

Commodore
Commodore
Romulus was destroyed by the Hobus super nova, because of the Dominion taking a late revenge for the Cardassians and Romulans trying to exterminate the Founders in the DS9 episode "The Die Is Cast".

As the female founder said in "Broken Link: "Your people were doomed the moment they attacked us."

A major hint for this being the case is that the destruction of Romulus was caused by the same modus operandi as what the Bashir changeling planned to do with Bajor in "By Inferno's Light"...
 
The supernova as shown in Star Trek ‘09 appeared to be a natural occurrence. If the Dominion wanted to destroy Romulus, they would have just caused Romulus’s sun to nova, not Hobus. Plus, there aren’t any more Dominion forces in the Alpha Quadrant as far as I’m aware.
 
Romulus was destroyed by the Hobus super nova, because of the Dominion taking a late revenge for the Cardassians and Romulans trying to exterminate the Founders in the DS9 episode "The Die Is Cast".

As the female founder said in "Broken Link: "Your people were doomed the moment they attacked us."

A major hint for this being the case is that the destruction of Romulus was caused by the same modus operandi as what the Bashir changeling planned to do with Bajor in "By Inferno's Light"...

Hmmm.... I like this. A lot.

Except for one thing: Odo, who rejoined the Link, would try to get them to not do it. Unless they kept him out of the loop as they managed to do in "Broken Link" (DS9's fourth season finale) or somehow coerced Odo as the Female Shapeshifter managed to do in "Behind the Lines" during the opening arc of the sixth season.

If you work around Odo, it's perfect. Third option: The Dominion set up what led to the super nova somewhere between 2371 and 2375. When we're talking about stars, 12-16 years is nothing when we're talking about a star that lasts for billions of years. And whatever they would've set up needing to take so long to happen would have the added bonus of making it not look so obvious the Dominion were behind it.
 
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The supernova as shown in Star Trek ‘09 appeared to be a natural occurrence. If the Dominion wanted to destroy Romulus, they would have just caused Romulus’s sun to nova, not Hobus. Plus, there aren’t any more Dominion forces in the Alpha Quadrant as far as I’m aware.
Faster than light shockwaves are not a natural phenomenon. If they invest some thinking in this, this might be a good story. The Hobus scenario and Spock Primes recapitulation made Star Trek 09 a decent movie
 
Hmmm.... I like this. A lot.

Except for one thing: Odo, who rejoined the Link, would try to get them to not do it. Unless they kept him out of the loop as the managed to do in "Broken Link" (DS9's fourth season finale) or somehow coerced Odo as the Female Shapeshifter managed to do in "Behind the Lines" during the opening arc of the sixth season.

If you work around Odo, it's perfect. Third option: The Dominion set up what led to the super nova somewhere between 2371 and 2375. When we're talking about stars, 12-16 years is nothing when we're talking about a star that lasts for billions of years. And whatever they would've set up needing to take so long to happen would have the added bonus of making it not look so obvious the Dominion were behind it.
It may have been a contingency plan if the Dominion lost the war.
 
Faster than light shockwaves are not a natural phenomenon. If they invest some thinking in this, this might be a good story. The Hobus scenario and Spock Primes recapitulation made Star Trek 09 a decent movie

I didn’t say that Star Trek’s actual science makes logical sense. Just that the movie appeared to show the supernova to be a naturally occurring event (i.e. not caused by an intentional act.)
 
On the other hand, nobody but Spock seemed to believe that a supernova would happen; as far as we can tell, there was no timely evacuation or anything. Might be the phenomenon was utterly unnatural and therefore happened even though it couldn't.

There's no Hobus in the movie. The mind meld shows the homestar of Romulus blowing up instead. And not necessary at a FTL speed, either, so that this isn't as strange an occurrence as the DSN nova-bomb that was supposed to fry a mighty fleet of warpships some 15 lightminutes away...

Might be a Dominion attack. Might be a Klingon one. Or perhaps Spock did it after all, finding it logical to explore all avenues of dealing with the Romulan Problem.

Timo Saloniemi
 
On the other hand, nobody but Spock seemed to believe that a supernova would happen; as far as we can tell, there was no timely evacuation or anything. Might be the phenomenon was utterly unnatural and therefore happened even though it couldn't.

There's no Hobus in the movie. The mind meld shows the homestar of Romulus blowing up instead. And not necessary at a FTL speed, either, so that this isn't as strange an occurrence as the DSN nova-bomb that was supposed to fry a mighty fleet of warpships some 15 lightminutes away...

Might be a Dominion attack. Might be a Klingon one. Or perhaps Spock did it after all, finding it logical to explore all avenues of dealing with the Romulan Problem.

The movie did not show Romulus’s home star exploding, nor did Spock imply that the explosion was the work of an outside influence.
 
If the Dominion wanted to take revenge on the Romulans for an attack sixteen years in the past, why would they do so in a manner that threatens the whole galaxy, including themselves? I mean, I guess you could say the scope of Hobus went beyond the Dominion's intentions, but they have far more effective and direct methods for committing genocide were they inclined to do so. Plus, if they were, they'd be more likely to do so during the War, particularly after the Romulans backed out of the non-aggression pact with the Dominion and began fighting them with the Federation and the Klingons.
 
Wasn't really seeing the "Future of" angle here other than subject matter overlapping with Picard, so I've moved this to GTD.
 
The movie did not show Romulus’s home star exploding, nor did Spock imply that the explosion was the work of an outside influence.

Technically, the movie showed a star going supernova (Spock's words); it didn't say it wasn't Romulus' star. Granted, the Romulans would have died pretty quickly thereafter, and wouldn't have the time to organize stuff with Spock.

But as for your second point: Spock didn't imply the explosion wasn't artificial, either. He was trying to cut to the chase with the mind meld -- Kirk didn't need that information.
 
Technically, the movie showed a star going supernova (Spock's words); it didn't say it wasn't Romulus' star. Granted, the Romulans would have died pretty quickly thereafter, and wouldn't have the time to organize stuff with Spock.

But as for your second point: Spock didn't imply the explosion wasn't artificial, either. He was trying to cut to the chase with the mind meld -- Kirk didn't need that information.

Spock is logical and exact. If it was Romulus’s home star that went nova, he would have made that clear. If the star went nova because of nefarious means, he would have mentioned that as well. But he didn’t do either of those things, so there’s no reason to assume that that was the case.
 
The movie did not show Romulus’s home star exploding

...That's the very thing the movie does show happening. We see planet Romulus; the camera then flies through an asteroid belt to a star; the star goes kaboom; and the wall of flame destroys first the asteroid belt and then the planet Romulus.

Make of that what you will. Spock says one thing and shows another. These are not at odds with each other: the homestar of Romulus is "a" star just as any other.

On the other hand, what Spock says is nonsense unless we make assumptions ranging from minor (his narration is not in chronological order) to major (he had "little time" because the tri-isochronitron matrix of red matter goes pink two minutes after the matter is divided into small droplets and pink matter bobs Vulcan ears).

nor did Spock imply that the explosion was the work of an outside influence.

Yet for some reason Nero thinks it was Spock's fault. Perhaps Spock killed every single Romulan with a spree of tal'shaya grips and then erased the evidence by causing a supernova? We don't know, but for some reason (a key phrase for this movie!), Spock does choose to bear the guilt in front of Nero, even if just to humor the madman.

If the Dominion wanted to take revenge on the Romulans for an attack sixteen years in the past, why would they do so in a manner that threatens the whole galaxy, including themselves? I mean, I guess you could say the scope of Hobus went beyond the Dominion's intentions, but they have far more effective and direct methods for committing genocide were they inclined to do so. Plus, if they were, they'd be more likely to do so during the War, particularly after the Romulans backed out of the non-aggression pact with the Dominion and began fighting them with the Federation and the Klingons.

I doubt there would be more direct methods available, short of launching a new war - and supposedly there was an arrangement made in "What You Leave Behind" that somehow made it unlikely that there would be more war. On the other hand, causing a kaboom that burns most of the neighborhood is better done after the Dominion is ousted from the neighborhood than during a struggle over the control of said!

Timo Saloniemi
 
...That's the very thing the movie does show happening. We see planet Romulus; the camera then flies through an asteroid belt to a star; the star goes kaboom; and the wall of flame destroys first the asteroid belt and then the planet Romulus.
Are we sure it's the same planet? Because the sequence of events is:

*Star explodes, threatening to destroy the galaxy
*Spock promises to save Romulus
*The Vulcans build and launch a ship especially to carry Red Matter
*Spock is an route when Romulus is destroyed
*Spock deploys Red Matter and absorbs supernova, saving the galaxy but not Romulus
*Nero intercepts, believing Spock delayed intentionally to destroy his world and they fall through the black hole

Which doesn't mesh with the speed at which we see the star explode in the first shot, or an entire decade's worth of tie-in material which must be getting their directives from somewhere. The script says "one of the oldest stars in the galaxy" and the novelization says it was in the Beta Quadrant.

All that said, the mind-meld scene was heavily edited and re-edited and was the very last thing Abrams completed, 2 weeks prior to the movie's premiere according to the director's commentary. At least one shot in it was repurposed from later in the movie.

I guess Picard or "Children of Mars" might give us some kind of answer. Or perhaps not.
 
I'm sort of hoping against hope that it gives one that actually fits the earlier evidence.

What we see is a CGI sequence where the pan from a planet through rubble to star and back is quite explicit. This as such presents zero storytelling problems and also matches the idea that Spock's actions could contain the conflagration: if it's utterly local at this stage, then his locally dropping red matter onto the expanding wave of destruction is likely to get the job done.

What we have is a slight mismatch with what is told. But only in the chronological sense. An equally sensible reading of Spock's narration would be

* Spock learns of an impending disaster (he does use the future tense, although there are additional reasons to it)
* He promises to help Romulus, even though not all choose to believe in the disaster
* He proceeds, but has calculated wrong or runs out of time, and the disaster happens before he can act
* He still saves the galaxy even though he was too late in saving Romulus
* Nero either blames Spock on not keeping his promise, or assumes that this mysterious Vulcan he had not previously heard of is the guy who blew up the star

The idea of an impending disaster removes major problems:

1) Spock is excused for being late. If the wave of destruction emanates from a distant source, Spock will know exactly when it hits and pulverizes Romulus, so there is no point in launching on a mission too late, much less building a ship for the purpose too late (surely any rust bucket will get there faster than a ship that hasn't even been built yet!). If the wave is going to pop into existence at a poorly predictable moment and immediately kill Romulus, Spock can only hope, and is justified in at least trying.
2) Spock is the only one who is seen acting, and all of Romulus is lost. If the disaster were a done deal, at some distant star, everybody would act, and some would be saved. If there is no disaster yet, many would choose not to believe in it ever coming.

Of course, yet different takes are also allowed. Say,

* Spock learns of an impending disaster
* He promises to help Romulus
* He proceeds, and is not unduly worried about the trivially minor hiccup of Romulus being lost, because
* He then delivers his red matter which creates a black hole time machine, and
* With the time machine, he intends to undo the supernova before it even happened, so that Romulus can keep on enjoying the shine of its homestar
* But Nero intervenes and dooms his own planet and his wife with his misguided actions

This would cover the otherwise mysterious "I had little time" line, as well as allow for Spock to mess directly with the homestar of Romulus (without turning it into a black hole, hardly an improvement over a supernova!). Also, Spock getting to the right spot would be paramount, but being there at the right time would be less so. Heck, Nero later claims he "prevented genocide!" even though he acts in a different century altogether... But arguably at the same spot, with the same red matter, although offscreen.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Spock explained that after the explosion, he promised to save them, and they outfitted the Jellyfish with Red Matter after the nova began. While he was on his way, Romulus was destroyed. So probably there were a few days between the nova and its wave hitting the planet.
In Countdown, he warned the Senate a while before it happened, and they dismissed him. The Federation council, or the Vulcan council (I forgot, it's been 10 years!) debates and debates, and finally chooses not to help the Romulans by giving them Red Matter (a WMD should not fall into enemy's hands). That's why they're so late, and why Nero is so upset. Political debates delayed the help required.
 
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He also explained that after the explosion, he promised to save them, and they outfitted the Jellyfish with Red Matter after the nova began. While he was on his way, Romulus was destroyed. So probably there were a few days between the nova and its wave hitting the planet.

Which is why the star that exploded was not the Romulan star, despite convoluted explanations to the contrary.
 
Although this actually just makes matters worse: if Spock spends days sailing towards Romulus, what's the point when he can easily tell he will not be there in time? We really need the surprise factor there for this to make an ounce of sense.

Since Spock narrates after the fact, surprise is masked in the narration. Spock does use the word "unthinkable"; make of that what you wish. But there is a general sense of urgency there, one that we really, really shouldn't fight.

In the "it already blew" scenario, the whole idea of "outfitting" a ship is absurd to start with: if we're in a hurry, we certainly won't deposit our ship on a dockyard and have it torn down and then rebuilt. However, if the big fire is only a potentiality, then it makes good sense to build a fire truck, and to make it a fast one, so that it can be deployed when the time comes.

In the end, the movie has no Hobus; it has a visual sequence showing the homestar of Romulus exploding; and it places few constraints on the order in which the events happened, most of those working against the idea that the events would have unfolded slowly (say, it's blatantly explicit that there's no time for Nero to "equip his vessel" or "shave and tattoo his head" between Romulus exploding and Robau hailing him). Working from those, PIC can come up with all sorts of scenarios. It's just that without thinking this through, most of them will be in contradiction with the movie, although it's also possible to have many, many scenarios that work fine.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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