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Spoilers The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos?


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There was difference.

the alien leader was coming at 10 from behind after being defeated in combat and been given the chance to retreat.

After bad guy #1 became a smear on the ground they were retreating and no longer a threat when jones had the ship destroyed. That's why the Doctor was angry with her actions. It went from being self defence to cold blooded murder.

Hey, I'm not the one who made the Sycorax captain violate an oath sworn on the blood of his species. He got off lucky that only his ship was forfeit thanks to his treachery, it would've been within the Doctor's (or Jones's) right to destroy his entire planet. Never put something up as collateral if you're not prepared to lose it.
 
This season has been lacking in nuance and thoughtfulness regarding the Doctor's pacifism. Graham and her could've had a very similar conversation with only a couple extra lines ("Doctor, we let that monster get away, and he killed that woman, and all the people on all these other ships. If we let him go again, we're responsible for all the hurt he'll cause.
See I don't agree with that sentiment. Only one person is responsible for the crimes that are committed and that's the person who commits them. Ending someone's life because they "might" offend again is unacceptable to me. That's why I oppose the death penalty.

There was a similar part in "Arachnids in the UK" where the Doctor specifically observed the giant spiders were too big to survive, and their lives were constant agony, and the best she could come up was to wall them up with a cache of food so they could slowly asphyxiate over weeks or months, and she was horrified that Mr. Big decided to kill the spider quickly, when her solution was also to euthanize it in the slowest possible way. It didn't make sense, except in a weird, "keeping your won hands clean is good enough" way.

I never got that from the episode. To me it was clear that locking the spiders in the panic room was a short term solution to get them out of the way so that they could be humanely euthanased (presumably by some form of gas) as soon as they had the opportunity. Just because that wasn't clearly spelled out didn't make me think that she was just going to leave them there to die and forget about them.
 
See I don't agree with that sentiment. Only one person is responsible for the crimes that are committed and that's the person who commits them. Ending someone's life because they "might" offend again is unacceptable to me. That's why I oppose the death penalty.



I never got that from the episode. To me it was clear that locking the spiders in the panic room was a short term solution to get them out of the way so that they could be humanely euthanased (presumably by some form of gas) as soon as they had the opportunity. Just because that wasn't clearly spelled out didn't make me think that she was just going to leave them there to die and forget about them.

Big momma spider on the other hand was going to be left to choke to death if fake Trump hadn't (inadvertently) granted her mercy.
 
I think a lot of fans misconstrue the Doctor as a pacifist... which he really is not. He just hates violence, that's all.
 
See I don't agree with that sentiment. Only one person is responsible for the crimes that are committed and that's the person who commits them. Ending someone's life because they "might" offend again is unacceptable to me. That's why I oppose the death penalty.

Well, gee, if it's all Tim Shaw's damage, why bother stopping him at all, short term or long term? This was a "Sound of Drums"/"Last of the Time Lords"-scale screw-up on the Doctor's part, which was one of their bigger failures. She stopped Tim Shaw from killing the guy he wanted to kill. Big whoop. There were the half-dozen other people he killed for kicks on Earth, and then five whole planets besides. The Doctor phoned it in on this one, more concerned with getting points for style than actually doing the right thing. See also "Kablam!," where apparently killing someone to stop them from killing someone else is wrong, but killing someone to inflict suffering on a third party to prove a point is a cry for help we should respect.

I agree there's a moral cost to using killing as a solution to all life's problems, but there are ways to prevent people set on doing harm from doing that harm short of killing them. Throwing every villain into the nearest somebody-else's-problem-portal all willy-nilly may seem nice and non-violent, but it is, yes, irresponsible. Tim Shaw may have decided to be a murderous monster, but the Doctor enabled and facilitated that murderousness, and I think that should've been noted. Heck, it's worse than what Clara called him out on- the Doctor left the Master for dead, or in custody or, sure, didn't track them down when they escaped and chain them to a black hole or something, but I don't remember the Doctor ever handing the Master their next scheme on a silver platter the way she did for Tim Shaw.
 
I finally forced myself to finish Series 11. This was another mediocre episode. I will remember pretty much nothing about it by the time I wake up tomorrow, which is almost worse then just being shit. I'm not even going to bother to go more into it, except to say that the 13th Doctor is a hypocrite and a moron, which to be fair is true in literally every episode this series. Whitaker deserved much better.
 
Reanimating this thread because I just rewatched this episode last night, and came away with some additional subtext I hadn't spotted previously, which makes me feel better disposed towards the episode.

I'll quote someone else's analysis of the Tim Shaw character as depicted in "The Woman Who Fell to Earth":

Actually I think he's VERY interesting and well-picked for a villain. So Tzim-sha is the potential new leader for a galacttic superpower of murderers, invaders and hunters. Needless to say he's killed a lot to get to where he is, judging by all the teeth in his face.

This is a contest, an election if you will, they have chosen him to be their leader. He just has to pass one test. And what does he do? He cheats.

A great hunter, a powerful warrior. He's clearly strong, so why exactly is he cheating? Is he not supposed to be proving himself? Well, that's the thing - he isn't the Predator, this isn't about a code of honour. Or if it is, he does not care.

He was born to lead. So why take the risk something happens and he fails? I mean, clearly he won't, he says to himself, so using the extras is just time saving. It's a strong example of the privilege of power - that he believes he has already earned it, and cheating does not matter, because he COULD do it without cheating, and he deserves to lead anyway. Tim Shaw is very much a monster for our times.


This fits perfectly with all the social justice themes of the season. A Trump figure - born into privilege with all the power he could want but absolutely zero empathy for anyone who isn't him - cheats to get even more power, but a racially and sexually diverse group of 'social justice warriors' (a phrase I use as a compliment) spoil his plans.

That brings us back to "Ranskoor", in which we find two religious worshippers who have their faith hijacked by this same Trump figure. They have such power as to build the universe thanks to their faith, but he twists it and makes it destructive, and they go along with it because they have been convinced this figure is "holy" and he has taken advantage of that.

So basically this is talking about how heartless people in power have convinced good people of genuine faith that they are on the side of their god. How the right wing of politics has taken over the religious communities of the world, and used it to turn the power of that faith towards destructive, selfish, hateful, murderous ends. But the Doctor makes sure to emphasise that it's not faith per se that is at fault, but rather it's following a false god that is dangerous.

And then the Ux themselves - note that it's the old white woman who follows Tim Shaw's edicts most willingly, and wants to stay where they are and not question anything. Meanwhile the young black man questions from the start. The episode stops just short of declaring the Doctor as the "true" god as opposed to Tim Shaw's false god, but it does hint in that direction - she convinces them to the use their strength to build, not to destroy, and they follow her example in the end by going out there to explore the universe. And honestly, there are worse examples to follow than the Doctor's, as the episode was also saying on a smaller scale with the Graham conflict.

So while it's less obvious, these two episodes do still have a social relevance, and that's making me appreciate them and the whole season more than I did.

.
 
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Tim is normal for his species.

Driven.

Type A.

But he is the leader of a star system who still engages in the interplanetary past time of his people, because they can relate to him, and have a beer with him, because Tim Shaw is just like them.

Assholes all.
 
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