Surely Jeph Loeb sucks?

[MadBaggins]

Now I'm no EXPERT on comics, but I can't understand why Jeph Loeb is respected and thought of as a good writer, and why he keeps getting high profile books. His Hulk book SUCKS WORSE THAN VOYAGER. There's about ten words in each issue and the rest is "Red Hulk" (I REFUSE TO CALL IT "RULK") beating up every single character in the Marvel universe. How can this be considered "good writing"? Then there's his "Ultimate" book where The Blob snapped Wasp in two and ate her innards. That's just disgusting and inappropriate for comics. At least in the real Marvel universe she got to die with more dignity in a big tornado or something.

At least the head honchos at Heroes know the truth and fired his ass after volumes two and three sucked worse than Enterprise (remember the episode where he wrote in Seth Green plugging his "Rulk" book? GAHAHAH.)

Surely by any measurable standard he just sucks?

 

[Thrall]

That's just disgusting and inappropriate for comics.

You haven't been reading Marvel since Quesada took over have you? Stuff like this is par for the course. That's vile and completely shits all over Millar's Ultimate run. Which, granted isn't saying much. Millar had a lot of his own disgusting shit, but not even he went that far( although he came close a few times).

But yeah, Loeb's been crap for years. I love Long Halloween and it's sequels, but his recent work has left alot to be desired. His latter DC work was irrtating, but harmless. His Marvel work isn't. Quesada kind of encourages this garbage writing. The more shocking and deconstructive the better. That's half of thier sales strategy right there. If they had an EOC with creative maturity this wouldn't be as much a problem. What do you expect from the guy who wrote "Commando"?

Personally I think it was Arnie and the director who turned his script into a fun, stupid movie. I don't think Loeb has the awareness for intentional self-parody.

 

[Neroon]

New theme, eh Baggins? Enter a forum, find a personality integral to said forum, then post rather caustic evaluations of them?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jolly, does he suck.

 

[Ceridwen]

New theme, eh Baggins? Enter a forum, find a personality integral to said forum, then post rather caustic evaluations of them?

Jeph Loeb is a personality integral to the forum? I think even Heroes fans here have shared their complaints of his work, let alone anyone who has read his comic book work in the 8 years or so.

 

[shivkala]

I really think there are two Jeph Loebs: a decent (maybe even "good" writer) when he's paired with Tim Sale as an artist (take A Superman for All Seasons, my favorite Superman story, ever) and a hack (Superman/Batman, "Red Hulk," Ultimates).

Sometimes, you get a mix of the two and he's okay, such as, at least in my opinion, the bulk of his work on the Superman title.

 

[Cicero]

^ I really enjoyed Hush and his tenure on X-Force and Cable in the mid-90s.

 

[Timby]

Jeph Loeb excels at writing one story: A murder mystery that inevitably features cameos from the entirety of a character's rogues' gallery, culminating in an ending that is hugely retarded.

When he first tried this trick with The Long Halloween, it was new to readers and everyone thought it was great. Now that he's written the exact same story several times, he's been exposed as the terrible writer that he is (and, really, The Long Halloween is salvaged solely by Sale's artwork; the rest of it ranges from "mediocre" to "for the dogs"), and the gimmick is up.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

That's just [...] inappropriate for comics.

I don't even understand what that means. "Inappropriate for comics"? In what way?

 

[Dick Whitman]

I was almost going to write EXACTLY what JKTim did.

Plus most of Jeph Loeb's work that is best regarded is rehashing of others work. THere is very little that is original in Superman for All Seasons! Its Tim Sale artwork that distinguishes it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

New theme, eh Baggins? Enter a forum, find a personality integral to said forum, then post rather caustic evaluations of them?

Jeph Loeb is a personality integral to the forum? I think even Heroes fans here have shared their complaints of his work, let alone anyone who has read his comic book work in the 8 years or so.

I only know the guy from his work from Heroes, and it looks nothing short of catastrophically bad to me. Thank all the gods of BSG he was canned, along with that other guy.

Maybe his writing style is better suited to comics? Sure doesn't work on serialized TV, where, yknow, "kewl" plot twists can't disguise an inability to write characters consistently, create well-paced, emotionally engaging plot arcs with payoffs that work (or even exist), write dialogue that does more than lurch from one cliche to the next, adhere to some semblance of logic, and all that boring old shit that makes up competent fiction writing.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Now I'm no EXPERT on comics, but I can't understand why Jeph Loeb is respected and thought of as a good writer, and why he keeps getting high profile books.

It's easy. If you make a company money, they will hire you to work for them.

His Hulk was the ONLY book in the top 10 during Marvel and DC's big crossover months to not be a crossover tie-in.

You may think he sucks all you want. He won't lose any sleep with his high profile books that sell more than any you'll ever write. And, lately, even most pros, it seems.

 

[Hermiod]

Maybe his writing style is better suited to comics? Sure doesn't work on serialized TV, where, yknow, "kewl" plot twists can't disguise an inability to write characters consistently, create well-paced, emotionally engaging plot arcs with payoffs that work (or even exist), write dialogue that does more than lurch from one cliche to the next, adhere to some semblance of logic, and all that boring old shit that makes up competent fiction writing.

Really not.

"Ultimate" Pyro had, up until his appearance in Jeph Loeb's The Ultimates (the Ultimate universe's equivalent of the Avengers), been a good guy.

Then there's a big fight between the Ultimates and Magneto's Brotherhood, of which Pyro is suddenly a member! Then, Mastermind takes Valkyrie out of the fight by making her think her whole life as a superhero was just a dream (where she lives in a shabby apartment and her landlord's banging on the door demanding the rent). In reality, she's lying there unconcious.

At this point, good guy Pyro decides to ask Mastermind if they should "have some fun with her" before they kill her.

 

[Mr Light]

I don't mind his comics, but I certainly haven't read all of them. I haven't read the new Hulk yet, but I want to if only for McGuiness' art. In his defense, I'm pretty sure none of his Superman/Batman arcs started with a murder investigation

 

[Dick Whitman]

In his defense, I'm pretty sure none of his Superman/Batman arcs started with a murder investigation

But they do feature unnecessary cameos! His "stories" often just amount to "Hey, let's do a tour of Metropolis(or Gotham or the DC Universe, etc) to see all the familiar faces!"

 

[TheArsenal]

Loeb's writing in the The Ultimates was poor, to say the least. I think the best word to describe it is "messy". "Messy" as well as "meandering" and "nonsensical" would also describe the last work he did on Heroes before getting fired. And Superman/Batman, which by its very nature should be at least interesting, and would be in most hands, has been a surprisingly subpar book which basically goes nowhere.

I haven't read his mainstream Marvel work. Can't speak to that.

But, yeah, it seems Loeb isn't producing much quality work from what I'm seeing.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

I'm looking at Red Hulk it sucks

Loeb was always pathetic, Teen Wolf Too style creativity
he took the most badass villain DC ever had and crippled him
killed Darkseid by pushing him down a small flight of stairs

 

[Angel4576]

Spider-man Blue is one of my favourite comicbooks of all time.

 

[Myasishchev]

As someone who had only read Long Hallowe'en--it does have a weak, nonsense ending, but everything up to it is pretty compelling, at least--I came into the third series of Ultimates a little unprepared. The only way it would have been good if it had actually been in MAD Magazine, and Loeb had been actively parodying Mark Millar. In that sense, it was hilarious. As any sort of serious attempt at comics storytelling, it was inept in exactly the same way the comics I wrote when I was fourteen were. Making matters worse, of course, was that art chores were handled by the magnificently bad Joe Madueira--this is a different discussion, but surely Joe Mad sucks, as well, and this is coming from someone who finds Rob Liefeld's work to have a certain rakish, adolescent charm.

So, anyway, I was shocked into not giving a crap about the Ultimates anymore. I never cared all that much, since Millar, as is his wont, had made them all a bunch of unlikeable assholes, but as usual it was very entertaining to read Warren Ellis Junior, and certainly it was beautiful to look at under Bryan Hitch's tenure.

Looking around, I discovered that Loeb's ouvre since Hallowe'en has been on a pretty downward trajectory.

Then I read this thread and I find out something else I hadn't known.

Jeph Loeb wrote seasons two and three of Heroes? Just as I'm set to begin watching through them? Why, God, why?

I knew seasons two and three were supposed to be less good in comparison to the first season--which itself required herculean suspension of disbelief but was fun and moving throughout--but should I be braced for a true awfulness to come? Should I be ready for utter crap?

 

[DarKush]

The Long Halloween was good, but overrated. I also thought Spider-Man Blue was great. The first five issues of Loeb's Hulk run were pretty good and intriguing to me. I was really caught up in the mystery of the Red Hulk, and for some reason I thought Loeb was supposed to reveal who Red Hulk was in book #6 (can't remember where I read that). When that didn't happen, I felt cheated and I weaned myself off the book. I don't think Loeb is terrible-he has both good and bad stories under his belt, but I can see why some people don't like the Red Hulk series.