Starship Enterprise vs. Battlestar Galactica

[3D Master]

Bullets won't hurt shields.

Standard ones, no. But I think some people tend to underestimate the power of kinetic energy. Throw an asteroid at a starship, it's a threat. Throw a much smaller bit of metal much faster----it's an equal threat.

Galactica isn't firing 9mm ammo. It's firing railguns. In space they may even more more effective than a nuke, since most of a nuke's destruction comes from the pressure wave it creates in an atmosphere.

Now, maybe a starship's sheilds can hold up to that. But I don't think it's nearly as sure a thing as some of you seem to.

If bullets were a thread, Star Trek vessels would be using them.

They're not a threat though; as already pointed out, those bullets are just artificial micro-meteorites. They will not even get to TOUCH the shields. They'll simply be bent off course and sent around the ship by the navigational shields.

Even if they did get to the shields, they still won't do anything. They're too small. The only objects that can threaten a starship, are so big they have their own significant gravitational field, and thus subspace field, and can threaten the starships shields; or the impact causes such a kinetic effect it enters into the ship through inertia too great and unexpected for the Inertial Dampers to damp.

There is absolutely nothing in the Galactica's arsenal that can hurt a Star Trek starships, apart from suicide jumps. And even that, is an if.

 

[Lindley]

If you're going to move past real physics into speculations about what can affect shields, then I get to throw something arbitrary in too.

Galactica's jump drive disrupts subspace for a time when it's used. Hence, Galactica's arrival at the battle deprives the Enterprise of warp capability.

Incidentally, a better reason why Starfleet ships don't use railguns: They require ammo storage space, and you can run out. Why bother with that sort of problem when you can channel energy directly via phaser beams, and stock torpedoes which have higher yield *and* guidance systems. It doesn't mean railguns wouldn't be at all effective.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

Galactica's jump drive disrupts subspace for a time when it's used. Hence, Galactica's arrival at the battle deprives the Enterprise of warp capability.

I'm not purposely trying to be impolite here Lindley but I think that's BS. The term subspace or any other kind of technical term is never ever mentioned in the BSG series. Watching the old I see explanations for "Science" in TOS Battlestar really sucked but in the new one the explanations suck equally as much since they never bother to explain the science of anything - we get no explanation as to the cylon god, the chip in baltars head, the creation of the cylons nothing is ever explained ever. Its all some wishy washy mysterious backstory like JJ was flogging in Lost for his first 2 seasons. The thing is JJ might be able to dig himself out of a hole but it looks like Eick and RDM are totally unable. Battlestar doesn't really have science it creates the illusion of making things gritty by selling us something that looks old and antiquated and parroting a lot of Larson's old mythology. I think I've the right to comment on the science of new BSG, I'm pretty good at math and I've watched over 50 episodes of new BSG. I quit when the show became unwatchable and the guys posting in Trekbb's battlestar section started behaving like a bunch of obnoxious trolls. I patentilty went through over 50 episodes, watching some of the eps twice and never ever did I ever get a reasonable explation as to what this FTL drive thing was. All I ever got was the drive was spooled up, maybe that means they power it up like winding a bunch of twine around a knitting needle? Or is it like hitting rewind in your old VHS player? Or maybe it means somebody has to litteraly use a crank and wind it up like some Chaplin style character used to do with antiqated cars in those keystone cop videos. Ron D Moore made an attempt once to explain this FTL thing in a podcast, he explained it was an engine that could "cross dimensions" much like drag queen crosses from one style of dress into another. And for some reason many of these engines can only spool up and cross dminesions every 33 minuets, again this has never been explained, ever.

 

[Lindley]

Of course it's BS. That's the point.

 

[Icy_Penguigo]

Too bad you never see any of that on the actual shows. The vast majority of fights -- when they occur, which they rarely do -- are almost always against stationary or barely-moving vessels. And to my knowledge we certainly have never seen a "transporter bomb," let alone one with a 30,000 km wide explosion. And do you have any idea how ridiculous that number is? I mean, the Earth itself is less than 13,000 km in diameter.

Whatever this Starfleet Battles thing is, it's absolutely ridiculous and has nothing to do with the actual Star Trek universe.

You're right. It doesn't. It's a wargame based on Star Trek TOS(and ONLY TOS) that has been published since 1979. And, in my opinion, the background and lore for Star Fleet Battles is a lot more interesting and makes way more sense then 'canon' Star Trek. The reason I brought it up is because A.) it's internally consistent to a ridiculous degree, unlike Trek, and B.) because it wins so hard it's not even remotely fair.

And often in TOS it was stated that ships were travelling at warp while fighting, and ranges were given in thousands of kilometers. Steve Cole drew off of that when designing SFB.

It's funny, honestly. One single fighter from SFB could probably defeat Galactica and it's entire fleet. A Hydran Stinger-II just sits at 10,000 km away(making sure to maneuver to stay out of range, which would be easy since SFB fighters are warp-driven as well) and pastes them with its one phaser-G until there's nothing left. If the pilot was remote-operating the fighter from his carrier he could even have some chips or popcorn on hand to enjoy while he leisurely decimates the human race.

 

[3D Master]

Shouldn't that be Colonials and the Cylon race? Just nitpicking here.

 

[Bungoman]

Wow, I'm such a geek for this stuff, and I love this whole premise, but so many of the commenters are completely out to lunch!

Enterprise destroys Galactica without even bothering to call a red alert. Case closed.

Now, to a bunch of erroneous commenters, I have to say, what friggin TV shows have you been watching? If you're geek enough to comment here, you damn well better have your geek facts straight.

Galactica universe HAS NO DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPONS. They rely on bullets. Yes, bang bang bullets. Maybe exploding bullets, but bullets all the same. Watch the show already. They rely on chemically propelled missiles with chemical explosive warheads. They rely on fission nukes. That's it.

Why would NONE of those have any effect on TNG era Enterprise? Active shielding as said many times above. These shields can protect the ship even for short periods inside the friggin corona of a star! You think pathetic megaton rated nukes can degrade shields like that? If so, you are a retard, not a geek. Of course it goes without saying that the weaponry below the nukes in the BSG universe would not even degrade the navigational deflector. That deflector can easily deflect the kinetic energy of meteoroids travelling at a relativistic speed of many tens of thousands of miles per hour. You think that bullets and chemical explosives are even close to .000000000000001% of that? If so, you are a retard.

Some morons have stated that TOS era enterprise was vulnerable to nukes, citing the 1960’s fighter episode. WRONG. Enterprise was severely damaged, in the upper atmosphere, and their SHEILD WERE DOWN. Even so, Spok states that the nukes could damage them, NOT destroy them. Since TNG era Enterprise is many orders of magnitude more powerful than TOS era Enterprise, I call RETARD on this.

Vipers. PUHLEEESE! Why are there no fighters in the Star Trek universe? Because they are useless. If they were not, they would exist. They don't exist because tiny ships like that would simply smash themselves against the shields like bugs on a windshield. Come on, can so many of you be so retarded?

Galactica shooting down photon torpedoes. UGH! PEOPLE! YOU ARE REATARDED! Simple logic, dummies, if point defense weaponry could protect against photon torpedoes, all ships in the Star Trek universe would HAVE point defense weaponry. But they DON'T, because you can't defend against photon torpedoes like that. You either dodge, or take the pounding and hope the shields hold. DUH!

Galactica marines vs. Starfleet. Again, the word RETARD comes to mind. As mentioned by some, Enterprise has internal forcefeilds. Simply box up those pathetic bullet shooting marines and gas them. A friggin first year ensign could handle them. So on the ship, forget it. On a planet, forget it too, unless a marine somehow snuck up behind a Fed guy and shot him in the back. Oh, but wait, that could not happen. Why retards? Tricorders is why, retards. No marine could sneak up on Fed troops. EPIC FAIL.

Cylons defeating Borg, are you f-ing high or just retarded? Somebody forgot to tell you to watch the show then? Because if you did, you would have noticed that little bit about the Borg drones having personal energy shields. Only reason why Feds can shoot them for a little while is rotating phaser frequencies. Even that is only good for a few shots until Borg adapt. You think stupid ass bullet (might as well be rocks) shooting poor excuse for a T-800 bots stand the slightest chance? If so, how? Shields prevent Cylons from being able to touch the drones. Sorry retards, EPIC FAIL. As for Cylons hacking? Oh, those masters of hacking that were so inept that they needed Baltar to GIVE THEM THE CODES?
Also, for you lot that obviously don't watch the shows, the Borg are CYBERNETIC, as in they are as much organic as not. Cylons can hack old school computer networks is all, and not even very well. Sorry, the Cylons are so pathetic that the Borg would pass on assimilating them as they do for cultures which are below a certain standard.

As for Cylons trying to engage in ship-ship, not even a retard would think this is possible. Borg shields are stronger than Feds, which are impenetrable by any BSG universe weaponry. Even if somehow the Cylons damaged a cube, did you forget that little bit about the cubes REGENERATING? Sigh…WATCH THE SHOW ALREADY!

Only thing that makes any sense is Adama kicking Picard's ass. I agree on that. But Kirk would tear Adama a new asshole, piss in it, then sew it back up for him to die of sepsis, all without breaking a sweat.

Now, for an interesting meeting of geek universes: BSG arrives at Earth in the Babylon 5 universe. Much closer match, though ultimately League World ships would exterminate any Cylons or Colonials who got uppity. Would be cool for a full Cylon onslaught against the B5 station while it protects the colonial fleet. Earth Force fighters are more powerful with energy weapons, and seem to be more maneuverable in a space environment, but no active shields. B5 has point defense weaponry, but it can be overwhelmed. Earth Force troops have PPGs and armor to resist them, but bullets would still be a threat. If B5 could hold out, a couple of White Stars or one Minbari cruiser would eradicate any remaining hostiles.

So in summation, Galactica universe is a universe of rock throwing monkeys fighting their rock throwing toys-come-to-life. They drive Hummers (for real, watch the show), need fuel for their chemical propulsion, and basically are maybe a century ahead of modern day real life. Federation universe might as well be that of Gods and magic in comparison. Watch the shows, get a clue, and stop being so damn RETARDED.

 

[SiddFinch1]

Please. Not even close. Trek tech is far ahead of BG tech. Warp, Shields, photon torpedos and transporters vs jumping FTL and bullets?

 

[Hermiod]

Wow, I'm such a geek for this stuff, and I love this whole premise, but so many of the commenters are completely out to lunch!

You make some good points, most of which I agree with (and I've already stated many of them) but dial it down a bit, would you ?

Shouting about everyone being "retards" is going to get you in to trouble very quickly.

 

[JuanBolio]

Wow, I'm such a geek for this stuff, and I love this whole premise, but so many of the commenters are completely out to lunch!

Enterprise destroys Galactica without even bothering to call a red alert. Case closed.

Now, to a bunch of erroneous commenters, I have to say, what friggin TV shows have you been watching? If you're geek enough to comment here, you damn well better have your geek facts straight.

Galactica universe HAS NO DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPONS. They rely on bullets. Yes, bang bang bullets. Maybe exploding bullets, but bullets all the same. Watch the show already. They rely on chemically propelled missiles with chemical explosive warheads. They rely on fission nukes. That's it.

Why would NONE of those have any effect on TNG era Enterprise? Active shielding as said many times above. These shields can protect the ship even for short periods inside the friggin corona of a star! You think pathetic megaton rated nukes can degrade shields like that? If so, you are a retard, not a geek. Of course it goes without saying that the weaponry below the nukes in the BSG universe would not even degrade the navigational deflector. That deflector can easily deflect the kinetic energy of meteoroids travelling at a relativistic speed of many tens of thousands of miles per hour. You think that bullets and chemical explosives are even close to .000000000000001% of that? If so, you are a retard.

Some morons have stated that TOS era enterprise was vulnerable to nukes, citing the 1960’s fighter episode. WRONG. Enterprise was severely damaged, in the upper atmosphere, and their SHEILD WERE DOWN. Even so, Spok states that the nukes could damage them, NOT destroy them. Since TNG era Enterprise is many orders of magnitude more powerful than TOS era Enterprise, I call RETARD on this.

Vipers. PUHLEEESE! Why are there no fighters in the Star Trek universe? Because they are useless. If they were not, they would exist. They don't exist because tiny ships like that would simply smash themselves against the shields like bugs on a windshield. Come on, can so many of you be so retarded?

Galactica shooting down photon torpedoes. UGH! PEOPLE! YOU ARE REATARDED! Simple logic, dummies, if point defense weaponry could protect against photon torpedoes, all ships in the Star Trek universe would HAVE point defense weaponry. But they DON'T, because you can't defend against photon torpedoes like that. You either dodge, or take the pounding and hope the shields hold. DUH!

Galactica marines vs. Starfleet. Again, the word RETARD comes to mind. As mentioned by some, Enterprise has internal forcefeilds. Simply box up those pathetic bullet shooting marines and gas them. A friggin first year ensign could handle them. So on the ship, forget it. On a planet, forget it too, unless a marine somehow snuck up behind a Fed guy and shot him in the back. Oh, but wait, that could not happen. Why retards? Tricorders is why, retards. No marine could sneak up on Fed troops. EPIC FAIL.

Cylons defeating Borg, are you f-ing high or just retarded? Somebody forgot to tell you to watch the show then? Because if you did, you would have noticed that little bit about the Borg drones having personal energy shields. Only reason why Feds can shoot them for a little while is rotating phaser frequencies. Even that is only good for a few shots until Borg adapt. You think stupid ass bullet (might as well be rocks) shooting poor excuse for a T-800 bots stand the slightest chance? If so, how? Shields prevent Cylons from being able to touch the drones. Sorry retards, EPIC FAIL. As for Cylons hacking? Oh, those masters of hacking that were so inept that they needed Baltar to GIVE THEM THE CODES?
Also, for you lot that obviously don't watch the shows, the Borg are CYBERNETIC, as in they are as much organic as not. Cylons can hack old school computer networks is all, and not even very well. Sorry, the Cylons are so pathetic that the Borg would pass on assimilating them as they do for cultures which are below a certain standard.

As for Cylons trying to engage in ship-ship, not even a retard would think this is possible. Borg shields are stronger than Feds, which are impenetrable by any BSG universe weaponry. Even if somehow the Cylons damaged a cube, did you forget that little bit about the cubes REGENERATING? Sigh…WATCH THE SHOW ALREADY!

Only thing that makes any sense is Adama kicking Picard's ass. I agree on that. But Kirk would tear Adama a new asshole, piss in it, then sew it back up for him to die of sepsis, all without breaking a sweat.

Now, for an interesting meeting of geek universes: BSG arrives at Earth in the Babylon 5 universe. Much closer match, though ultimately League World ships would exterminate any Cylons or Colonials who got uppity. Would be cool for a full Cylon onslaught against the B5 station while it protects the colonial fleet. Earth Force fighters are more powerful with energy weapons, and seem to be more maneuverable in a space environment, but no active shields. B5 has point defense weaponry, but it can be overwhelmed. Earth Force troops have PPGs and armor to resist them, but bullets would still be a threat. If B5 could hold out, a couple of White Stars or one Minbari cruiser would eradicate any remaining hostiles.

So in summation, Galactica universe is a universe of rock throwing monkeys fighting their rock throwing toys-come-to-life. They drive Hummers (for real, watch the show), need fuel for their chemical propulsion, and basically are maybe a century ahead of modern day real life. Federation universe might as well be that of Gods and magic in comparison. Watch the shows, get a clue, and stop being so damn RETARDED.

Yes, you're largely correct.

...but CALM DOWN.

 

[Bungoman]

Hey now, I'm just passionate 'tis all.

 

[Demiurge]

Some morons have stated that TOS era enterprise was vulnerable to nukes, citing the 1960’s fighter episode. WRONG. Enterprise was severely damaged, in the upper atmosphere, and their SHEILD WERE DOWN. Even so, Spok states that the nukes could damage them, NOT destroy them. Since TNG era Enterprise is many orders of magnitude more powerful than TOS era Enterprise, I call RETARD on this.

Reading is fundamental, Bungoman. Obviously you can't read - try seeing which ships the opening post is actually contrasting. Here's a hint - it isn't the TNG Era Enterprise.

As far as the specifics of Tomorrow is Yesterday, I already stated the condition of the Enterprise at the time.

Spock's exact words are:
'Positive identification Captain. Aircraft is an interceptor equipped with missiles possibly armed with nuclear warheads. If he hits us with one he might damage us severely, perhaps beyond our capacity to repair under current circumstances.'

What's interesting is this is about the only time we know specifically how effective a weapon is going to be in the series. We know the date, a couple of weeks before the moon mission in 1969, and we know the type of fighter - in this case, an F-104 Starfighter, and what kinds of tactical nukes it might carry. There were lots of nuclear weapons in the Air Force arsenal at the time, but as far as air to air missiles only 1 that I know of, the AIR-2 Genie. We know it's yield - 1.5 kilotons. Earths' history in Star Trek universe is supposed to be the same at that time, not diverging until the Eugenics Wars, so these assumptions are valid.

We don't know the yield of Galactica's nukes, but we know that 1960s tech with one of the smallest payload nukes of all time is a threat to the unshielded Enterprise.

We don't know how the Enterprise's shields would fare against a nuke from the Galactica, because we don't know how strong the shields are or how strong the Galactica's nukes are. Photon torpedoes are obviously effective against shields, and most sources put them at the highest at the 60 megaton range (and of course, there's plenty to indicate they aren't that powerful). That's about the highest limit of conventional nuclear warheads now. Certainly there are some aspects of BSG tech that is superior to moden Earth.

Oh, and the Enterprise that we are talking about can't deal with the corona of a star. That's actually a plot point in TNG ep 'Suspicions', when a Ferengi scientist creates metaphasic shields that allow for just that. That's about 100 years after Kirk's Enterprise.

Vipers. PUHLEEESE! Why are there no fighters in the Star Trek universe?

There are fighters in the Star Trek universe - but there aren't any at the time of our current discussion. Watch later eps of DSD9 if you don't believe me.

Galactica marines vs. Starfleet. Again, the word RETARD comes to mind.

Again, the fact you are talking about the wrong ship comes to mind. So yes, that word does have some merit.

Oh, but wait, that could not happen. Why retards? Tricorders is why, retards. No marine could sneak up on Fed troops. EPIC FAIL.

Red shirts everywhere disagree. Sensor tech certainly goes to Trek, but tricorders and the people using them are anything but unfailable.

Watch the shows, get a clue, and stop being so damn RETARDED.

Invoking another crossover - /teal'c eyebrow raise / - INDEED.

But yes, overall the TOS Era Enterprise has a huge tech advantage over the nuGalactica. The TOS Galactica might be a better argument.

 

[Demiurge]

The fact that it's a glowing ball of energy instead of a metal casing flying about. The fact that no stray matter ever destroyed a torpedo. The fact that shooting a torpedo causes a bigger explosion that if you simply detonate them.

If the tech manuals don't name it, they're either incomplete, or flatout wrong.

How about the fact that if the torps are shielded and we see the glow because of that why do we see the same effect when photon torps are fired in locations where shields are specifically stated not to work, such as the Mutari Nebula?

They were still visible? Not to me they weren't. Shockwave. Sizzling around the ships. Gone.

I reviewed it and you are right.

It says nothing on whether the shockwave will do something else, or penetrate their shields after all. However, I find it hard to think of a way to disable their engines or worse, without penetrating the shields.

Well, that would be the point of the maneuver then, no? To disable a ship that you can't penetrate their shields? The dialog specifically says that it is a disabling maneuver, but that doesn't appear to be what we actually see, granted.

Seriously, if detonating the torpedo with you phasers was not difficult, and could not hurt yourself, why doesn't everyone use it? The fact that isn't often if at all used, must mean that it is either diffcult, you can hurt yourself, or both.

I'd say difficult - you have to have a precise firing solution that will only work on a torpedo you yourself fired. Otherwise the best tactic would be to try to shoot down enemy torps as they are launched!

There's not a lot of data available on the maneuver, and there isn't a heck of a lot of reason not to use it if the phaser/torp combo is an instant ship killer. The explosion is significant but only a few hundred meters across from what I saw, those alien ships were pretty small. Certainly with weapons rated at hundreds of thousands of KM such a small area explosion wouldn't be much of an issue to the firing vessel.

The fact that it's only used once in 703 episodes make me question the legitmacy of something that should be standard fair. But there's lots of stuff in Trek like that.

Anyway, interesting premise, thanks for the debate!

 

[3D Master]

Vipers. PUHLEEESE! Why are there no fighters in the Star Trek universe?

There are fighters in the Star Trek universe - but there aren't any at the time of our current discussion. Watch later eps of DSD9 if you don't believe me.

Uh, no, there are no fighters in DS9. There are some craft that are classified as fighters, but so are the Jem'hadar attack ships. Both the Jem'hadar and Starfleet "fighters", however, are not fighters in the sense of Battlestar Galactica or Star Wars (aka a fighter jet in space.) Those Star Trek "fighters" are full-fledged starships that dwarf the one-man fighter jets in space of Battlestar Galactica.

The fact that it's a glowing ball of energy instead of a metal casing flying about. The fact that no stray matter ever destroyed a torpedo. The fact that shooting a torpedo causes a bigger explosion that if you simply detonate them.

If the tech manuals don't name it, they're either incomplete, or flatout wrong.

How about the fact that if the torps are shielded and we see the glow because of that why do we see the same effect when photon torps are fired in locations where shields are specifically stated not to work, such as the Mutari Nebula?

Just because the large shields around a large starship, surrounding it in a wide bubble can't work in the nebula, doesn't mean the tiny shields around a small torpedo can't work.

 

[Lindley]

Please. Not even close. Trek tech is far ahead of BG tech. Warp, Shields, photon torpedos and transporters vs jumping FTL and bullets?

As I said, the primary disadvantage of bullets is that they run out. In terms of the energy they can deliver, remember that's proportional to the square of the velocity. If Galactica's railguns can produce projectiles moving at even a small fraction of the speed of light, that's going to deliver a massive amount of energy.

A 1-gram bullet accelerated to c/10 would deliver 8.987 * 10^5 megajoules of energy. I don't know precisely how much a phaser blast is supposed to deliver, but I don't recall Star Trek often using prefixes larger than "mega" when referring to Joules.....

While there are many other factors in play, some people really need to get over the "energy weapons completely outclass projectiles" fallacy.

 

[the_wildcard]

Hmm does anybody have any of the technical manuals? I thought there were some stats on how much the phaser generators were in terms of energy production?

 

[Demiurge]

Please. Not even close. Trek tech is far ahead of BG tech. Warp, Shields, photon torpedos and transporters vs jumping FTL and bullets?

As I said, the primary disadvantage of bullets is that they run out. In terms of the energy they can deliver, remember that's proportional to the square of the velocity. If Galactica's railguns can produce projectiles moving at even a small fraction of the speed of light, that's going to deliver a massive amount of energy.

A 1-gram bullet accelerated to c/10 would deliver 8.987 * 10^5 megajoules of energy. I don't know precisely how much a phaser blast is supposed to deliver, but I don't recall Star Trek often using prefixes larger than "mega" when referring to Joules.....

While there are many other factors in play, some people really need to get over the "energy weapons completely outclass projectiles" fallacy.

Lindley, good post. One example of this is the Berserker series by Saberhagen. The eathers there use C+ guns, that use just that premise to demolish kilometer long robot death ships.

I'd say that energy weapons do have one advantage - they work at the speed of light, so in theory unless your railgun is firing something at a significant fraction of C, they should be much more accurate at range.

In the battle at Ragnar anchorage, we actually get a tracking shot of the BSG's main batteries, and they certainly aren't traveling (at that point) anywhere near C.

 

[Demiurge]

Board seemed to eat this one, trying again.

Uh, no, there are no fighters in DS9. There are some craft that are classified as fighters, but so are the Jem'hadar attack ships. Both the Jem'hadar and Starfleet "fighters", however, are not fighters in the sense of Battlestar Galactica or Star Wars (aka a fighter jet in space.) Those Star Trek "fighters" are full-fledged starships that dwarf the one-man fighter jets in space of Battlestar Galactica.

The Peregrine is appox. 16-18 meters. The Jem Haddar Attack Ships are nearly 100m. The Peregrine carries a crew of 2. The Jem Haddar Attack Ship carries a crew of 42.

Ex Astris Scentia, one of the most detailed Trek sites on the web, has this to say:
The Peregrine class is a small fighter with a crew of one or two and a size only slightly larger than a 20th century fighter aircraft. The design was used by the former Maquis and is in Starfleet service as of 2376.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/starfleet_ships2.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/dominion_ships.htm

No official figure for the size of the Peregine is given that I'm aware of, but the fight in Sacrifice of Angels shows the Peregrine near the Jem Hadar 'fighter' and the Jem Hadar ship is shown to be a much larger vessel.

Your comment that the size determines whether it qualifies as a fighter is incorrect - its the function. A P-61B Blackwidow was a huge fighter in WWII bigger than many small bombers, but it was still most definitely a fighter.

There is also a Maquis Raider which uses the same model which is the size of the Jem Haddar Attack Craft. Trek got into the CGI game late and often reused models as different ships.

Just because the large shields around a large starship, surrounding it in a wide bubble can't work in the nebula, doesn't mean the tiny shields around a small torpedo can't work.

The 4th season TNG Writers manual p14 (you do have that, don't you? LOL) says that it's encased in an magnetic bubble that keeps the matter and antimatter from interacting. That's different from a defensive shield. We don't need to speculate on this one - we know.

All of the other technical manuals say the same thing (for example, TNG Technical Manual, p128. Why? Because they were all written or taken from the notes of Mike Okuda (the one I mentioned above co-authored by Rick Sternbach).

The shield systems are specifically described as gravitic shields, not electromagnetic ones. They bend space time to deflect matter and energy away.

Even if you want to ignore what the people who actually wrote the show say, it still doesn't match the on screen evidence. The deflectors never visibly appear similar to the glow given by that torpedo.

So there's years of onscreen evidence against your hypothesis, the writers tell us it isn't that, and its not used except in one late Voyager episode.

There's TONS of discrepancies in any scifi franchise (hell the ship appears to change size all the time).

 

[3D Master]

Please. Not even close. Trek tech is far ahead of BG tech. Warp, Shields, photon torpedos and transporters vs jumping FTL and bullets?

As I said, the primary disadvantage of bullets is that they run out. In terms of the energy they can deliver, remember that's proportional to the square of the velocity. If Galactica's railguns can produce projectiles moving at even a small fraction of the speed of light, that's going to deliver a massive amount of energy.

A 1-gram bullet accelerated to c/10 would deliver 8.987 * 10^5 megajoules of energy. I don't know precisely how much a phaser blast is supposed to deliver, but I don't recall Star Trek often using prefixes larger than "mega" when referring to Joules.....

While there are many other factors in play, some people really need to get over the "energy weapons completely outclass projectiles" fallacy.

Bullets won't HIT. The problem with objects, is that they are susceptible to energies, most notably gravity no matter how fast they go. (And the ship going at warp speeds is going much faster than close to light.) A starship's navigational shields are built entirely for the purpose of bending objects away from the ship so they never hit. Bullets will simply be veered off course by the navigational shields, and pass left, right, up and down by the starships, never hitting anything.

Lasers, similarly, would simply be bent aside by the same shields.

Phasers aren't simply energy weapons - they can be fired at warp speeds - they are SUBSPACE energy weapons. They carry a subspace component that allows them to penetrate navigational shields and the deflector shields.

The Battlestar's weapons will never hit the starship or its shields. What would happening would be the Battlestar crew and fighter pilot watching in shocked awe, as their bullets as they came closer to the starship simply bend off course and pass the starship by. They'd be watching with utter dread at the realization that not only are their weapons not powerful enough to hurt the starship, they can't even hit it!

That's not to mention the sheer amount of ECM that a Starship could throw up. It'd be like EarthForce versus the Minbari. The Battlestar wouldn't even be able to target the Enterprise; if the starship allowed itself even to get close enough to detect. It's worse, really, with EarthForce if they could target the Minbari they could at least hit and hurt them. Here, even if the Enterprise would allow the Galactica to target it, they can't hit.

The Battlestar is so far outclassed it isn't even funny - actually it might be SO far outclassed, it'll come out the other end and be funny even hilarious again.

 

[Bungoman]

Demi, Demi, Demi, you silly Goose!

Yes, I took this discussion to where many others already have: TNG vs BSG2.0. I guess I didn't think I had to explain that? Silly me then.

ST fighters appear in the two part Borg ep when the Cube gets to earth as well. I choose to cherry pick against ST with those as they are so silly they only appear in maybe 3 episodes ever. If they were useful in ST universe, at least Galron's flagship would have a compliment, dontcha think? But if suddenly we get to toss in ST fighters, BSG universe is double dog screwed as they have shields and phasers.

I said the normal shield can withstand SHORT PERIODS in the corona of a star, not extended exposure like the scientist was trying to accomplish. Since Bird of Prey shields are certainly weaker than a Galaxy Class, this proves my point. Unless you missed Warf and his brother pull that maneuver. Reading is indeed fundamental, huh buddy?

If the tactical nuke (much more damaging in an atmosphere than a much bigger one in space) was still not a deadly threat to a horribly damaged TOS Enterprise, I think its safe to say that bigger BSG nukes in space against an undamaged Enterprise are friggin USELESS. If you don't understand why a nuke in space is far less damaging than a nuke in an atmosphere, spend some time reading up.