Spoilers Starbase 80 - The Space Station Time (and the Federation) Forgot

[Will_Carter]

Much has been made of how grime covered everything seems to be, and how there are no replicators, thus Chad the corndog guy.

I get the prominad existing. The Acamareans require a space for commerce and trade. yet you can't tell me that there is no re-sequencers, or anything. Where do the materials for the food come from? They have to trade with someone for that if nothing else.

What holds my interest is we basically got to see a TOS era/pre refits space station.

I want to see more. I want to see what she can do. Admittedly she's overshadowed by the newer ships and technology, but she's been adrift for a century. No idea if she's been in use that whole time but it's clear she's been able to persist and endure. Says a lot about the technology and construction that went into her.

 

[Dukhat]

Much has been made of how grime covered everything seems to be, and how there are no replicators, thus Chad the corndog guy.

I get the prominad existing. The Acamareans require a space for commerce and trade. yet you can't tell me that there is no re-sequencers, or anything. Where do the materials for the food come from? They have to trade with someone for that if nothing else.

What holds my interest is we basically got to see a TOS era/pre refits space station.

I want to see more. I want to see what she can do. Admittedly she's overshadowed by the newer ships and technology, but she's been adrift for a century. No idea if she's been in use that whole time but it's clear she's been able to persist and endure. Says a lot about the technology and construction that went into her.

I doubt you’ll see more, since LDS ends in four more episodes.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The station could still show up again in another show, in any era. The last time it got a major refit was in the TOS era, so who even knows what it'd look like in SNW. It could be even more archaic, or shiny and new.

 

[Dukhat]

The station could still show up again in another show, in any era.

Maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it.

 

[Ronald Held]

The Acamareans can barely afford to run it, much less upgrade it to 24th century standards?

 

[Will_Carter]

The Acamareans can barely afford to run it, much less upgrade it to 24th century standards?

That is a definite, though depressing, thought. We have no expectations the Acemerians are post scarcity. One could argue the federation wasn't post scarcity til the invention of the replicator, they simply had gobs and gobs of most resources.

 

[Deks]

That is a definite, though depressing, thought. We have no expectations the Acemerians are post scarcity. One could argue the federation wasn't post scarcity til the invention of the replicator, they simply had gobs and gobs of most resources.

We know from VOY that money went the way of the dinosaur in the late 22nd century - so, probably at the same time UFP was formed.

Also, replicators aren't post scarcity tech. All they do is improve the speed and ease of manufacturing stuff. Otherwise, all you really need to achieve post scarcity on a global level is early 20th century technology and change the socio-economic system you use from Capitalism to something akin to Resource Based Economy which manages the resources you have a lot better and effectively eliminates/reduces waste.

Point bein, the Acamerians were portrayed as socially backwards and are not really educated to 'run' a starbase. One could argue if SF put some effort into making SB-80 a 're-educational facility' of sorts that helps bring intellectually impoverished individuals to a level where they would know how to fix actual problems and get exposed to methods of science, the starbase might have a shot at being run well and its situation would radically improve.

 

[Will_Carter]

Acamerians were portrayed as socially backwards and are not really educated to 'run' a starbase. One could argue if SF put some effort into making SB-80 a 're-educational facility' of sorts that helps bring intellectually impoverished individuals to a level where they would know how to fix actual problems and get exposed to methods of science, the starbase might have a shot at being run well and its situation would radically improve.

How would one do that without it looking like 'white man's burden' or come in with a savior complex?

 

[Deks]

How would one do that without it looking like 'white man's burden' or come in with a savior complex?

I think at some point one would have to say 'who cares'?

The situation on the Starbase escalated because someone at SF was negligent.
Its a freaking starbase... and despite the possibility it may be in a 'strategically unimportant sector', things have a nasty habit of spinning out of control in such areas whenever the conditions are 'ripe' or are left neglected.

Point being, its a SF starbase, and they allowed the problem to reach this level of neglect... so SF should be the one to fix it.

Here's a potential way to do that: SF could come in and offer a diplomatic solution (like they should have in the first place). They offer the Acamerians onboard that SF will provide educational programs on the starbase and allow them to be co-administrators of the Starbase and actively participate in SF operations in the sector in the interest of cooperation and improvement of relations (which could also be used as a way to show other Acamerians another way of life in the process - a test case of sorts).

If they refuse, simply swoop in with a couple of ships, and beam all of the Acamerians out in a single transporter cycle. Keep them in the pattern buffer if needed until they are returned to their planet of origin, or colonies... then leave a few dedicated engineering ships docked at the Starbase along with security details to modernize the thing, and just reclaim it (and keep a few ships near the starbase - maybe assign one permanently to the station, much like the Defiant was assigned to Ds9).

Quite honestly, you don't allow something as large as a starbase to 'slip through the cracks'... its a massively capable/valuable infrastructure in space that with some tinkering can do wonders.

 

[Will_Carter]

I think at some point one would have to say 'who cares'?

In universe? Sure fine awesome. Out of universe? The whole point is to not just tell a story but to use the medeum of SciFi to reach an audiance that might not otherwise be receptive to ponder not just morals and ethics but means and methods.

 

[Deks]

In universe? Sure fine awesome. Out of universe? The whole point is to not just tell a story but to use the medeum of SciFi to reach an audiance that might not otherwise be receptive to ponder not just morals and ethics but means and methods.

Even so, this isn't a 'white man's burden' or 'savior complex', because the Starbase belongs to Starfleet, and its poor condition is a result of Starfleet's negligence. Fixing it is about taking responsibility for their property, not imposing their will on others. In my scenario, the Acamerians onboard are given a peaceful choice (one fully in line with SF/UFP principles and ideals) : either work with Starfleet to improve the station and actively participate (which could potentially result in Acamerians onboard to improve themselves) or leave if they prefer. This approach respects their autonomy while ensuring the station is repaired, upgraded, secured and functional for everyone.

Also, while I suspect the Acamerians are PART of the problem on SB-80, they don't seem to run the show. Starlfleet does, (however loosely).

Improving the conditions on the starbase and potentially improving the ambient social structure onboard by offering the Acamerians a more 'active role' is not a bad thing. It can showcase to the audience how changes in environmental conditions and active offering of help can potentially change things for the better to make the environment more appealing to others.

 

[Will_Carter]

Even so, this isn't a 'white man's burden' or 'savior complex', because the Starbase belongs to Starfleet, and its poor condition is a result of Starfleet's negligence.

Thank you for presenting an angle for the problem I can both work with and get behind. It's greatly appreciated and.

I actually agree with you. Whatever part the Amacerians have in the state of the station? Starfleet clearly is in administrative control enough that is listed as their property. Therefor the lion's share of the blame lay on them for either letting it get this bad, or not doing more to get it in good repair or at least.. CLEAN... for the Amacerians.

 

[Deks]

Thank you for presenting an angle for the problem I can both work with and get behind. It's greatly appreciated and.

I actually agree with you. Whatever part the Amacerians have in the state of the station? Starfleet clearly is in administrative control enough that is listed as their property. Therefor the lion's share of the blame lay on them for either letting it get this bad, or not doing more to get it in good repair or at least.. CLEAN... for the Amacerians.

Exactly.
While the LD episode did have the Commander of the starbase say that a diplomatic hiccup resulted in half the station being 'given away' to the Acamerians (I'm still unsure on how that technically worked out since the starbase was constructed by SF/UFP - so someone obviously messed up gravely - and it was also said another diplomatic solution could work to smooth things over and repair the situation), but this is why my proposed solution is simple and works with what was established.

As we saw, the incident with the anaphasic lifeform resulted even in the Acamerians to scream and be held 'hostage' by the possessed Cerritos crew... so they didn't seem any more 'dangerous' than average people (Mariner painted a rather grim picture of 'knife gangs' because of her own biases, but its possible their 'dirty looks' to Cerritors crew in the beginning were just anger at the general state of disrepair SF allowed the station to fall into)... and even those 2 waiting outside the Arcade even gave Freeman and Ransom a complimentary offer of casino chips to play and knew that Gene was in fact Jakobowski - I mean, if they were actually very dangerous, I think the situation would have gone over VERY differently - but they almost acted as friends (once the initial 'brave face' was taken down).

Seems to me the Acamerians have already 'adapted' somewhat to the environment and like to put up a 'brave front' in front of 'fresh SF personnel' but still appear to rely on SB-80 assigned personnel (who retain big enough administrative control so its still listed as their property).

Nevertheless, as it was established, the problem is a result of SF's own negligence, and its their job to fix it - and SF can seemingly do that by keeping the Acamarians onboard.

 

[BK613]

Shouldn't this thread be spoiler-tagged?

 

[Will_Carter]

Shouldn't this thread be spoiler-tagged?

Actually yes it should be. How do I do that?

 

[Unicron]

I tagged it, so it should be good now.

 

[Will_Carter]

I tagged it, so it should be good now.

Thanks!

In the fic I'm working on. Planning on parking the Yorkshire (NCC-330) because i like the idea of an old as farts beat up pickup-truck of a ship stationed at the forgotten station.

 

[Tomalak]

The station could still show up again in another show, in any era. The last time it got a major refit was in the TOS era, so who even knows what it'd look like in SNW. It could be even more archaic, or shiny and new.

That would be fun - in the SNW era, Starbase 80 is the hip new space station that everyone wants to be assigned to!

 

[HotRod]

I actually think the station is a pre-TOS design. They said it hasn't been updated since the 2260's, which makes it sound like it was built even before then.

It reminds me of this painting from Picard's quarters....

I kinda like the idea that it's one of the original Starbase designs, dating back to the very early Federation.

 

[Will_Carter]

I actually think the station is a pre-TOS design. They said it hasn't been updated since the 2260's, which makes it sound like it was built even before then.

It reminds me of this painting from Picard's quarters....

I kinda like the idea that it's one of the original Starbase designs, dating back to the very early Federation.

Literally it's this:

Class “J” (Watchtower) Station – FASA Star Trek® Starship Tactical Combat Simulator