Spoilers Star Trek: The Old School Re-Exemanied

[Phoenix219]

Whether Rand had an unrequited love for Kirk is irrelevant, Spock was being wholly inappropriate in his comments to her.

I guess I just have some extremely informal friends and workmates - I could easily see someone i know (in the situation) teasing her, hey, you've wanted him anyways, ya sure ya didn't like it? be careful what ya wish for? hey isn't that what you wanted? with absolutely no negative intent - if it was an informal setting instead of the bridge of a starship, and the two were closer friends, the context may have come across a bit differently.

I just don't believe Spock to be the kind of person that would make the comment in the traditional sense, and am looking for his internal context. He is used to needling (and being needled by) his crewmates in good fun. His exchanges with McCoy aren't that far removed.

 

[johnnybear]

I've always felt that it was all part of the "rejected use" amalgam that became TNG - Captain PIKE-ard as a more cerebral character; His brash XO William T Ri-Kirk-Decker and his telepathic sexualized former flame Ilia Troi, unemotional but curious science officer Xon-Data, the saucer separation, etc.... or like what if Kirk was Pike's XO on TOS....

I've always seen that connection too! Captain Picard=Pike and William Riker=Kirk, as in William for Shatner and Rik(e)r plus Frakes has always responded in the negative to comments about his resemblance to the Shat! Maybe why he grew the beard?
JB

 

[Pauln6]

I guess I just have some extremely informal friends and workmates - I could easily see someone i know (in the situation) teasing her, hey, you've wanted him anyways, ya sure ya didn't like it? be careful what ya wish for? hey isn't that what you wanted? with absolutely no negative intent - if it was an informal setting instead of the bridge of a starship, and the two were closer friends, the context may have come across a bit differently.

I just don't believe Spock to be the kind of person that would make the comment in the traditional sense, and am looking for his internal context. He is used to needling (and being needled by) his crewmates in good fun. His exchanges with McCoy aren't that far removed.

The problem is his smirking. If he'd delivered it deadpan as a scientific observation, Rand's purely emotional reaction shows a similar balance between the two as the good and evil Kirk but his smirk and the way he delivers the line show is clearly a joke at her expense and therefore inappropriate.

It was planned for them to develop a more casual working relationship but it's easy to see that the writers embraced McCoy and left Rand out in the cold. There's a scene in Balance of Terror that is almost like a passing of the Torch. Rand is poised to fulfil her original role as Miss Kitty to Kirk's Marshall Dillon, to give him some advice and comfort. Instead, McCoy steps up and sends her off to the galley to get coffee. It's an almost palpable moment where the writers decided to make the show a boy's club. A real missed opportunity.

What's weirder and creepier is that apparently, Rand was originally to have told Kirk that she thought evil Kirk had 'interesting qualities' herself. Given that Grace was sexually assaulted by an executive that wanted her to role play a lusty yeoman, it's entirely possible that whoever was responsible for that line is the same person who assaulted her, trying to impose a twisted fantasy of a woman secretly enjoying her assault onto the screen. Very creepy if true.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Been awhile as I got sidetracked when I discovered all 14 seasons of Dallas on IMDB FreeDive (fortunately only the first 7 seasons were great).

Revisited The Doomsday Machine (S2E6) the other day. Can't say it is an underappreciated episode as it generally makes most "Top 10" lists. I will say that William Windom doesn't usually get enough praise for his performance though. His character's "battle of wills" against Spock's was elevating. Nimoy and Windom really had some chemistry! The scene where we can see Matt Decker look Spock up and down when trying to appraise the cut of his jib. William Windom was truly a standout guest star.

Followed with Catspaw (S2E7). Never one of my favorites but not outright bad. I guess just a rather pointless episode. Aside from being aimed for a Holloween 1967 audience there really isn't anything to it as the aliens (Kolob and Sylvia) seem confused and aimless. Really isn't much of story here. Good to see Assistant Chief Engineer DeSalle (Michael Barrier) again as I always like that character.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I've always seen that connection too! Captain Picard=Pike and William Riker=Kirk, as in William for Shatner and Rik(e)r plus Frakes has always responded in the negative to comments about his resemblance to the Shat! Maybe why he grew the beard?
JB

In my mind Jean-Luc Picard = Marlin Perkins and William Riker = Jim Fowler.

Seriously though Riker was, at least in the beginning, a redo of Willard Decker from ST: TMP (with Troi a redo of Ilia).

 

[johnnybear]

Left over characters from Phase II!
JB

 

[Phoenix219]

In my mind Jean-Luc Picard = Marlin Perkins and William Riker = Jim Fowler.

Seriously though Riker was, at least in the beginning, a redo of Willard Decker from ST: TMP (with Troi a redo of Ilia).

Yup, and Xon as Data. The whole show was rehashed. Technically, though, TOS + Riker, Troi, Data and Worf would be fun. A matured Kirk dealing with Riker/Decker might have more depth than Picard - a mix of wisdom and jealousy because his XO is so familiar. It would add a whole new dynamic to the battle over who goes in the landing party for instance.

 

[Noname Given]

Left over characters from Phase II!
JB

Plus the leftover Android of the failed pilot "The Questor Tapes".

 

[HaventGotALife]

The sexism continued into Next Generation. Tasha and Troi are overly-emotional in early episodes. Being a woman acting like the boys, is a misunderstanding of feminism. There is nothing wrong with being a woman; you do not have to act like a man to get ahead. Troi and Crusher are in caring fields, love interests for the two senior-most officers, and their standalone episodes like Remember Me, The Price, and The Loss continue this deep into the series.

The point? Star Trek, for all its talk of egalitarianism, overlooks the soft bigotry of women. Enterprise and Voyager put women in catsuits. Terry Farrell's looks changed the looks of the Trills, and even as they talk of Ishka and Fe-males, they did everything but have Farrell strip on camera for Worf.

That said, the early Trek episodes are awesome! The early concepts of the show are completely different, the edits longer, the acting better. It is not what it became, it is a different flavor. But, the creativity of the show, before Menagerie, is the best of Trek.

 

[HaventGotALife]

In production order:

The Cage
Where No Man Has Gone Before
The Corbomite Manuever
Mudd's Women
The Enemy Within
The Man Trap
The Naked Time
Charlie X
Balance of Terror
What Are Little Girls Made of?
Dagger of the Mind
Miri
The Conscience of the King
Galileo Seven
Court Martial

The first 29 episodes in production order have probably 5 bad episodes. But, the earlier Trek happens before Menagerie. And, I go back to them, often.

 

[Pauln6]

The sexism continued into Next Generation. Tasha and Troi are overly-emotional in early episodes. Being a woman acting like the boys, is a misunderstanding of feminism. There is nothing wrong with being a woman; you do not have to act like a man to get ahead. Troi and Crusher are in caring fields, love interests for the two senior-most officers, and their standalone episodes like Remember Me, The Price, and The Loss continue this deep into the series.

The point? Star Trek, for all its talk of egalitarianism, overlooks the soft bigotry of women. Enterprise and Voyager put women in catsuits. Terry Farrell's looks changed the looks of the Trills, and even as they talk of Ishka and Fe-males, they did everything but have Farrell strip on camera for Worf.

That said, the early Trek episodes are awesome! The early concepts of the show are completely different, the edits longer, the acting better. It is not what it became, it is a different flavor. But, the creativity of the show, before Menagerie, is the best of Trek.

I think calling it 'soft' sexism is bang on. It's usually quite subconscious and it's still a thing. Despite a promising start, Halston Sage's security officer in the Orville spent much of her spare time agonising about getting a boyfriend who didn't mind her being stronger than him as if there wouldn't be many species (as there are in nature on Earth) where females are bigger and stronger than men.

There's also a moment in DS9 where Julian Bashir acts surprised at a matriarchal species, which should probably be a common thing.

And finally NuTrek, which, with a clean slate to feature more women in a 21St century overhaul, made the choice to feature LESS women, editing out Pike's first officer in favour of a man, and the Vulcan leader in favour of two men. They also failed to update Janice Rand, and featured a name check for Nurse Chapel, despite the fact that she was actually a biologist who only became a nurse about 6 years after this story was set in order to sign onto a starship to search for her missing fiancé and then subsequently writing her out of the next movie as a sex joke.

The reason they gave was that they didn't want to feature them if they couldn't give them enough to do! Oh how to compound the error...

 

[Commishsleer]

The sexism continued into Next Generation. Tasha and Troi are overly-emotional in early episodes. Being a woman acting like the boys, is a misunderstanding of feminism. There is nothing wrong with being a woman; you do not have to act like a man to get ahead. Troi and Crusher are in caring fields, love interests for the two senior-most officers, and their standalone episodes like Remember Me, The Price, and The Loss continue this deep into the series.

The point? Star Trek, for all its talk of egalitarianism, overlooks the soft bigotry of women. Enterprise and Voyager put women in catsuits. Terry Farrell's looks changed the looks of the Trills, and even as they talk of Ishka and Fe-males, they did everything but have Farrell strip on camera for Worf.

That said, the early Trek episodes are awesome! The early concepts of the show are completely different, the edits longer, the acting better. It is not what it became, it is a different flavor. But, the creativity of the show, before Menagerie, is the best of Trek.

I agree.

I know ENT and VOY and DS9 had their female leads in catsuits but hey I got nothing against looking at attractive people on TV. Its just the gratuitous undressing in ENT that got to me. I'm sure they could have done it a little better and I wouldn't have minded. And it was equal opportunity undressing but for some reason I dislike it.

 

[HaventGotALife]

I have great appreciation for the second season of Trek, however, does anyone else feel that they lost the feeling of an ensemble for the triumvirate of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy? I feel like the show everyone talks about begins with "City on the Edge of Forever" and stops at "A Private, Little War." Everything else falls away, like Sulu being a botanist, Janice Rand as a cast member, Uhura's lines outside of "hailing frequencies" and the truly unmemorable third season.

Arguably, the show went through several formats. The ensemble, the triumvirate, and the lost season, already covered. What could current incarnations draw from these other eras to improve their shows, to continue Gene's vision, and not fall into the caricature trap of the Re-boots and movies?

 

[gakelly]

I agree.

I know ENT and VOY and DS9 had their female leads in catsuits but hey I got nothing against looking at attractive people on TV. Its just the gratuitous undressing in ENT that got to me. I'm sure they could have done it a little better and I wouldn't have minded. And it was equal opportunity undressing but for some reason I dislike it.

I only watched about half of the pilot of Enterprise. It was almost as if the people in charge knew they had nothing of substance so they decided having a woman strip down would make the show popular. The problem was that people who are just looking for sex/nudity have easy access to it with the Internet and don't need to sit through a crappy tv show to see it.

 

[plynch]

S3 is far from a lost season. It recovers some weirdness after the very-professional, sometimes formulaic S2.