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Star Trek as "hard" science fiction?

Nothing about hard science fiction requires you to explain things in depth to the audience. They just have to make sense for those viewers/readers who know the difference.

We "just go with it" on a lot of things in real life, after all. We learn to speak without consciously/scientifically analyzing the sounds we are making. We operate toys and appliances without knowing how they are constructed or that they have batteries to make them go. We listen to music and sing along without thinking about the math of musical notes and rhythm. We react to emotional situations (in)appropriately without stopping to ask ourselves why we feel that way and how one ought to feel/respond.

As long as we're able to interact with something, it little matters initially the scientific/engineering/sociological concepts behind it.
 
That said, I'm a translator and the one thing that breaks my suspension of disbelief more fundamentally than telepathy, FTL travel, the replicator and the transporter combined is the universal translator. Sure, I can accept that instant translation works with species they've already been in contact with for a long time, but their ability to communicate with completely new species just like that is a step too far for me.
I've heard different explanations of the Universal Translator and how it works.

The kinda (somewhat) believable explanation is that it's basically a super-advanced algorithm where the computer, combined with the idea that there are syntax and structure commonalities between all verbally-speaking humanoid species, is able to decipher a language.

The more science fiction answer is that the universal translator is a brain implant that's able to interpret and alter brain waves. That's the reason people's mouth movements match the translation, because the translator is altering a perception of what the other is saying in order to facilitate the translation.
 
As long as we're able to interact with something, it little matters initially the scientific/engineering/sociological concepts behind it.

It doesn't matter to the users, but it absolutely matters to the people who make it, if they want it to work well. And that's the principle behind hard science fiction. Like I said, it's not about whether the audience has it explained to them, it's about whether the writer knows the subject well enough to get it right, so that it works smoothly without raising a bunch of logic and believability questions that distract the audience.

Well, at least in theory. Unfortunately, film/TV audiences have been so brainwashed by the usual junk science in sci-fi that when something does present science plausibly, everyone assumes it's wrong. Like, people assume time travel has to rewrite the past so that the more plausible alternate-timeline model in something like Kelvin Star Trek or Avengers: Endgame seems wrong. Or they assume that space instantly freezes people, so they'd assume an accurate portrayal of vacuum as an insulator that makes it harder to lose body heat is wrong.
 
One culturally significant portrayal of a concept is all it takes for others to mindlessly copycat/riff/spoof it.

For some people, inaccuracies immediately take them out of the story, but others can just accept it for the purpose of enjoying the story. Or it goes over their head completely because they don't know what was said/whether it works or not/are more interested in the visuals, or characters, or plotline.
 
For some people, inaccuracies immediately take them out of the story, but others can just accept it for the purpose of enjoying the story.

Exactly. For most people, it won't make a difference, but there are those in the audience who will be bothered if it doesn't make sense. So if you want to satisfy everyone in your audience, you pay attention to getting it right. That's true whether it's accuracy in science, medicine, legal procedure, business, or any other area that some of the audience will be knowledgeable about. The ideal is to satisfy every customer, not just those in the majority category.
 
Star Trek had the perfect opportunity to move into harder sci-fi. It was called "Enterprise". It would have been the perfect opportunity for Trek to go without transporters, use an older weapon set, and dispense with time travel shenanigans. We know how that went.
 
I've always wanted to see Star Trek completely re-imagined to be much more "hard" sci-fi.

But, here's the other side of that: We all roll our eyes at stuff like warp drive, transporters, subspace communications, etc. But, the fact is that we have absolutely NO IDEA what will be possible 3-400 years from now. Hell, even our "absolutely certain scientific reality" of how the universe formed is now in question with the James Webb telescope making some fascinating discoveries.

I think science in general has become very arrogant, and we feel like we know where the limits and rules are. The fact of the matter is that we know nothing really. And, as advanced and informed as we think we are now, people 3 centuries from now will look back on us and laugh the same way we are amused at the "science" of 300 years ago.

So, I'm ok with Star Trek having these outlandish technologies, because it is very possible that we will have even more outlandish developments in the next 300 years than the show has predicted.
 
I've always wanted to see Star Trek completely re-imagined to be much more "hard" sci-fi.

But, here's the other side of that: We all roll our eyes at stuff like warp drive, transporters, subspace communications, etc. But, the fact is that we have absolutely NO IDEA what will be possible 3-400 years from now. Hell, even our "absolutely certain scientific reality" of how the universe formed is now in question with the James Webb telescope making some fascinating discoveries.

But the point of hard SF is not to attempt to predict the future correctly. It's to offer speculations that use known science as a starting point. It's not about the results, it's about the process. All science fiction is conjecture, but hard SF is conjecture that works the same way science does, by beginning with known facts and principles and making logical deductions and extrapolations about their possible ramifications. Or else it takes existing theories about things that aren't yet proven and explores what would happen if those theoretical phenomena proved true. (For instance, my new flash fiction piece in Amazing Stories is set in a multiverse that's based in a conjectural ramification of some principles from string theory.) People often forget that science isn't just about cataloguing what exists, but making testable predictions of things beyond what is known.

Also, sometimes hard SF does make arbitrary postulates with no basis in current science, when it's necessary for the sake of the story. But here's the key: When it does postulate something unreal, it otherwise evaluates it in the context of known physical laws and realistically depicts how it would be affected and limited by those physical realities if it existed. It doesn't use it as an excuse to avoid playing by the rules, but as an opportunity to explore how the rules would apply to it if it did exist.


I think science in general has become very arrogant, and we feel like we know where the limits and rules are.

That is profoundly misunderstanding what science is and how it works. It's the exact opposite of assuming you know the rules. The whole point of science is literally to search for new rules, new knowledge beyond what we know. The whole point of the Scientific Method is to question our perceptions and hypotheses and only give them credence if we fail to disprove them. A century and a half ago, quantum physics would've seemed like magic and been denounced as absurd. But since science is about testing assumptions and following the evidence, it was able to prove quantum physics real, and now it's the foundation of modern physics and much of modern technology (e.g. transistors, diodes, etc.).


I never saw "hard" science fiction as any better than "soft" science fiction. So I see no point in "re-imagening" Star Trek as what is now commonly held as "hard science fiction".

It's not about "better" or "worse." Differences don't have to be value judgments; the difference is valuable in itself. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, remember? The core philosophy of Trek is that differences are something to be welcomed and embraced, not feared or judged inferior. Nobody's suggesting replacing Trek with something "better" -- just exploring an alternative that could exist alongside it, because it's good to be able to explore the world from multiple alternative perspectives.

Different people like different things. That's not a competition or an argument, it's just giving everyone an equal opportunity to have what they enjoy. Many of us enjoy both Star Trek and hard science fiction, so we would like to see something that combines the two. That's not judging or devaluing the regular approach to Trek, it's just saying it would be interesting to explore an alternative approach.
 
I never saw "hard" science fiction as any better than "soft" science fiction. So I see no point in "re-imagening" Star Trek as what is now commonly held as "hard science fiction".
I mean, it's not about better. I don't specifically seek out hard SF but I think Star Trek could benefit by returning to it's roots, as it were, and using recent scientific discoveries to fuel their plot lines. It has potential as a fun experiment. A mash up like this wouldn't devalue current Trek at all. Just something fun to do.
 
I think it wouldn't really be Star Trek anymore if you had to so severely change those elements

So, basically, it won't feel like Trek unless it has most of Trek's tropes.

The Orville feels a lot like Trek, but excludes some tropes. No transporters, not really much of any trapped in a holodeck with the safetys off, not much of Q or God like aliens.

Just look at The Expanse

Yes, I think I'm leaning towards "The Expanse" on a galaxy (well, multiple star systems) scale.

Maybe I'm asking for "The Orville" with "The Expanse's" space physics.

And less aliens of the week. Why create a new species when you can further develop an established one? There are many Trek episodes where the random alien of the week could be replaced with an Andorian or Tellerite, or etc...
 
I've heard different explanations of the Universal Translator and how it works.

The kinda (somewhat) believable explanation is that it's basically a super-advanced algorithm where the computer, combined with the idea that there are syntax and structure commonalities between all verbally-speaking humanoid species, is able to decipher a language.

The more science fiction answer is that the universal translator is a brain implant that's able to interpret and alter brain waves. That's the reason people's mouth movements match the translation, because the translator is altering a perception of what the other is saying in order to facilitate the translation.

Yes, I've heard these theories before and they still don't really satisfy me, because it would mean that the device was somehow able to handle two-way communications, even with species who aren't advanced enough technologically to have the device themselves. I suppose you could get around that by assuming that any species advanced enough to have warp drive would also have their version of the instant translator, but that would assume that every planet had more languages than would be possible for one person to learn in their lifetime, and thus even a theoretical need for such a device. Never mind that the Federation keeps running into pre-warp civilizations all the time while mostly cheerfully ignoring the Prime Directive.
 
The UT is one of those things where you're not supposed to know how it works, just that it pretty much always does. Unlike those safeties on the holodeck.
 
Things that grease the wheels of the plot work until they no longer serve that function. Things that stand in the way of a good story don't work until/unless we need a resolution.
 
I wish I had a UT when I get work done on the house. I've learned enough Spanish to be polite to the contractors' crews. But I had a curve thrown on this year's project when the masons I hired turned out to be Albanian. :O
Faleminderit, fellas! One of them looked at me and said "Google?" :lol:
 
I've always wanted to see Star Trek completely re-imagined to be much more "hard" sci-fi.

But, here's the other side of that: We all roll our eyes at stuff like warp drive, transporters, subspace communications, etc. But, the fact is that we have absolutely NO IDEA what will be possible 3-400 years from now. Hell, even our "absolutely certain scientific reality" of how the universe formed is now in question with the James Webb telescope making some fascinating discoveries.

I think science in general has become very arrogant, and we feel like we know where the limits and rules are. The fact of the matter is that we know nothing really. And, as advanced and informed as we think we are now, people 3 centuries from now will look back on us and laugh the same way we are amused at the "science" of 300 years ago.

So, I'm ok with Star Trek having these outlandish technologies, because it is very possible that we will have even more outlandish developments in the next 300 years than the show has predicted.

Right now the only two technologies Star Trek has that we have no real way of going "hm..how to make that work" are transporters and subspace communications.

Multiple scientists are working on viable theories for a warp drive, we're experimenting with matter/anti-matter reactions as a means of power generation (still entirely unpractical but still)..replicators are kind of being messed with in terms of advanced organic 3d printing and food production, etc.

A lot of the technologies predicted by Trek are seeing their earliest infant steps right now
 
Always thought that a "hard sci-fi Trek" would be an oxymoron. I mean, Trek by design has to be harder sci-fi than something like Star Wars, but shouldn't be hard hard sci-fi. The whole point of Trek is that it's about humanity and the human condition, and the sci-fi bits like warp drive, interstellar federative states and alien (humanoid) species are there mostly to aid the storytelling potential.
 
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