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Spoilers SPOILERS: Icheb's Return in Star Trek: Picard

Akiraprise

Engage the Core!
Moderator
SPOILERS BELOW!!!
If you don't want to be spoiled about Star Trek: Picard stop reading now.




Seriously. Stop.





With that being said, and because I want to see what other VOY fans think, we got to see the return of another VOY character. Icheb. For about one minute. In that minute we saw him brutally tortured, he had his eyeball ripped out, and Seven was forced to mercy kill him. This actually bothers me.

We're not talking about the actor here. So forget that aspect of the recast and what went into that.

The character Icheb is dead. This wasn't a one off character but one that featured fairly often in the final seasons because of his relationship with Seven. I really liked Icheb when he came on board in Season 6. He was socially awkward, about my age at the time, and was trying to fit into the VOY crew. He was kind of a kindred spirit in a way. But he applied himself, the crew grew to accept him into the family, went to battle for him and saved him when his real family used and abused him, and he chose to pursue a career in Starfleet to help others and give back to the community that adopted him.

This wasn't the end I wanted or expected for him. It's actually really really crappy. I was spoiled before watching the latest episode. To be honest I actually didn't want to to watch his death and was sort of dreading it until tonight when I could watch it. Gore doesn't bother me. This kind of did. The Alpha Quadrant Voyager returned to is quite a bit different than when it left apparently. It's a damn good thing the other Borg children didn't finish the journey home. That pure Delta Quadrant Borg tech would be too much for these poachers to resist.

As I finished the episode, and we found out that Seven actually inadvertently gave Icheb to the scavengers due to the duplicity of that Bedazzle chick (her and Seven appeared to have been an item), and I listened to Picard's speech to Seven about justice and morality I couldn't help but ponder the fact that he was wrong. So wrong in this instance. Bedazzle needed to die and Seven made it happen. I felt better, but empty. Probably the same as Seven. I wonder what Admiral Janeway's take on all of this is? Maybe she's the Fenris Ranger Sheriff and everyone else is her deputy. That would seem about right in my mind.

RIP Icheb. :(
 
I did not like it. For one I thought it was too graphic for Star Trek, but I was thinking about how eager Icheb was at the end of Voyager and how he did have that Star Trek optimism, but it was pretty much torn away just like that. I know this a new kind of Trek and life can be cut short, but the viciousness of it just was very unsettling.
 
This is the first "semi-regular" Trek character from another series to die on PIC. Even Maddox was only a one timer on screen. I know this was emotionally needed to push Seven along the path they've set for her story wise but it was still a kick in the teeth for VOY fans kind of. I see quite a few of the other shows fans chomping at the bit to get their favorite characters back on the screen. Maybe that isn't such a good thing. Might see Morn get his guts spilled on Quark's new bar. :shrug:
 
I said in another thread that what made Icheb's death so difficult for me was that the last time we saw him he was boy. It's hard to see Icheb as anything but that sensitive and optimistic child who wanted to be like Captain Kirk. His death stuck with me for days and that for me proves what an effective piece of storytelling it was. I think Icheb's death is going to have far greater relevance than just to give Seven motivation.
 
I said in another thread that what made Icheb's death so difficult for me was that the last time we saw him he was boy. It's hard to see Icheb as anything but that sensitive and optimistic child who wanted to be like Captain Kirk. His death stuck with me for days and that for me proves what an effective piece of storytelling it was. I think Icheb's death is going to have far greater relevance than just to give Seven motivation.

If it does by the end of the season, I might look at the scene differently, in a more positive. Until then, it is what it is.
 
I watched Child's Play and Imperfection again after the new PIC episode, and it's so much more emotional now knowing how they'll both end up 20 years later :weep::wah:


Kind of a shitter of a future for some:

the bad:

Data: still dead
Picard: Broken man full of guilt, much of it deserved
Troi: Married to Riker
Icheb: tortured to death
Chakotay: dumped or dead or both
Jake and Kassidy: bereft of Benjamin but unable to claim death benefits
Romulans: well a lot of them died, anyway.
Holograms: Still don't have their freedom.
Seven of Nine: turned vigilante, had to abandon the federation, lost the last of her kin
Bruce Maddox: murdered by a former lover
Miral: unknown but the way the series is going, probably will be lowered into a cauldron of boiling oil alongside Naomi Wildman by the end of the season, the way things are going.

the good:
Quark: seems to have expanded his enterprise into a franchise. Quark's Bar was seen on Freecloud
uh.. that's about it. so far
 
Isn't announcing "Icheb's Return" in the thread title kind of a spoiler in itself?
Kind of a shitter of a future for some:

the bad:

Data: still dead
Picard: Broken man full of guilt, much of it deserved
Troi: Married to Riker
Icheb: tortured to death
Chakotay: dumped or dead or both
Jake and Kassidy: bereft of Benjamin but unable to claim death benefits
Romulans: well a lot of them died, anyway.
Holograms: Still don't have their freedom.
Seven of Nine: turned vigilante, had to abandon the federation, lost the last of her kin
Bruce Maddox: murdered by a former lover
Miral: unknown but the way the series is going, probably will be lowered into a cauldron of boiling oil alongside Naomi Wildman by the end of the season, the way things are going.

the good:
Quark: seems to have expanded his enterprise into a franchise. Quark's Bar was seen on Freecloud
uh.. that's about it. so far
You forgot to add androids being banned & possibly stripped of their rights & identities etc... Oh & anyone who's been assimilated is now eternally unrecovered, in one state or another.
 
Isn't announcing "Icheb's Return" in the thread title kind of a spoiler in itself?
Not really any different than announcing Seven's Return last year I don't think. It's vague with a Spoiler tag. Actually several warnings. Still need to say what the topic is. I think we're covered.
 
Seven returning was part of the show's promotion. They did the spoiling lol. Admittedly, I'm shit with the etiquette on spoilers, so I err on the conservative side
 
Endgame: Seven and Chakotay die, Janeway turns back time 30 years to undo it.

Picard: Icheb is horribly tortured and dies, all ex-Borg are hated and feared, the Federation has turned isolationist, Seven is a vigilante living for vengeance. Janeway::shrug:

I'm really enjoying Picard, but is it the better timeline than "Endgame"? Their world is much harsher, and seeing Voyager's dinnertime viewing, generally light and fluffy characters dropped into it and suffering is... an adjustment.

In fact, part of me wonders if Janeway isn't in prison for violating the Temporal Prime Directive and can't do anything...
 
Seven is a vigilante living for vengeance.

I get the impression her desire to protect the defenseless motivates her more strongly than just the revenge.

For example, I think if she had reason to think the woman was reformed and would help people in the future, she would have spared her. As it so happened, she would have continued to brutally torture and kill innocent people.
 
Endgame: Seven and Chakotay die, Janeway turns back time 30 years to undo it.

Picard: Icheb is horribly tortured and dies, all ex-Borg are hated and feared, the Federation has turned isolationist, Seven is a vigilante living for vengeance. Janeway::shrug:

I'm really enjoying Picard, but is it the better timeline than "Endgame"? Their world is much harsher, and seeing Voyager's dinnertime viewing, generally light and fluffy characters dropped into it and suffering is... an adjustment.

In fact, part of me wonders if Janeway isn't in prison for violating the Temporal Prime Directive and can't do anything...
Picard: So where's Admiral Janeway?

Seven: After Icheb's death, she took a starship and tried to go back in time and undo it. She hasn't been seen since. Even if she were successful, she may just be living in an alternate timeline where Icheb's alive, and that has nothing to do with us now.

Picard: Ah.
 
I did not like it. For one I thought it was too graphic for Star Trek, but I was thinking about how eager Icheb was at the end of Voyager and how he did have that Star Trek optimism, but it was pretty much torn away just like that. I know this a new kind of Trek and life can be cut short, but the viciousness of it just was very unsettling.

It was a bit much and a hard blow for me, too.
 
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