(SPOILER!) Worf and Riker in Eye of the Beholder

[erastus25]

Does it bother anyone else that Worf approaches Riker about dating Deanna in Eye of the Beholder during Troi's quasi-dream sequence? After she first enters the tube and starts to hallucinate all of the scenes in the episode should involve Troi, since it's all in her subconscious. It makes it really confusing when you go back and try to figure out what was before the flashback, and what was after. In short, the sloppy writing really bothers me.

 

[Michael]

A spoiler warning for a fourteen years old episode?

 

[erastus25]

A spoiler warning for a fourteen years old episode?

Yeah...I thought it might be a little too much. But then I remembered that there might be people new to TNG or Trek in general and this is one of the few episodes out there with a legitimate twist at the end so I figured it was best not to wreck it. Ordinarily I wouldn't think it was a big deal to reveal the ending, but this seems like a special case. Some people might have forgotten the end too. I don't know, I tend to err on the side of caution with this kind of thing.

 

[Michael]

A spoiler warning for a fourteen years old episode?

Yeah...I thought it might be a little too much. But then I remembered that there might be people new to TNG or Trek in general and this is one of the few episodes out there with a legitimate twist at the end so I figured it was best not to wreck it. Ordinarily I wouldn't think it was a big deal to reveal the ending, but this seems like a special case. Some people might have forgotten the end too. I don't know, I tend to err on the side of caution with this kind of thing.

Yeah, sorry. You're right. I didn't mean to sound harsh.

And actually you are totally right, this always bothered me about the episode, too. I don't know about others, but I never have dreams that don't involve me.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I could have sworn that Worf approached Riker in reality. As for the episode it was one of those final season shows that could have been good but just failed in the execution.

I loved the idea of psychic residue and a secret history to the ship going all the way back to its construction but it all turned out to be a dream essentially which just ruined the episode for me especially after the excitement build-up with Troi's breakdown, shooting Worf, running away etc. Eye of the Beholder is certainly not one of TNG's better mystery/sci-fi concept stories.

 

[erastus25]

Yeah, sorry. You're right. I didn't mean to sound harsh.

You didn't. I think you're point was very valid.

I could have sworn that Worf approached Riker in reality. As for the episode it was one of those final season shows that could have been good but just failed in the execution.

That's why it's so freaking confusing - she has several flashbacks within her flashback. I actually thought the same thing at first too, but if you go back and think about it, the flashback starts very early. We can tell because that dead lieutenant guy can't be on the Enterprise yet Troi talks to him before the Riker/Worf scene. Even more bizarrely, it eliminates another initiation of Worf/Troi - but this time it's from the Troi's perspective. I wonder if they ever discuss these fake romances they had.

I loved the idea of psychic residue and a secret history to the ship going all the way back to its construction but it all turned out to be a dream essentially which just ruined the episode for me especially after the excitement build-up with Troi's breakdown, shooting Worf, running away etc. Eye of the Beholder is certainly not one of TNG's better mystery/sci-fi concept stories.

I agree completely. Done well, this could have been a Twilight Zone style romp that really would have freaked everyone out in the end. They could have done a lot more with the creepy red-headed dude, and definitely should have had Troi flashing back and forth between dream and reality rather than staying in dream mode.

 

[WillsBabe]

I really like this episode, but I think the OP is right about the timing of this scene. It is confusing to know if this scene takes place in reality or within Deanna's fake-ality. OTOH, I guess it kind of sets the pace for later eps when Deanna and Worf are dating. If the scene between Riker and Worf does take place within Deanna's hallucination (I can't remember because it's so long since I've seen the episode) then it's interesting that she should dream this up. Does Worf actually get around to asking Riker, and if so, what's his reaction to being asked? Does Worf decide against it at the last moment? Someone remind me, please!

 

[erastus25]

I really like this episode, but I think the OP is right about the timing of this scene. It is confusing to know if this scene takes place in reality or within Deanna's fake-ality. OTOH, I guess it kind of sets the pace for later eps when Deanna and Worf are dating. If the scene between Riker and Worf does take place within Deanna's hallucination (I can't remember because it's so long since I've seen the episode) then it's interesting that she should dream this up. Does Worf actually get around to asking Riker, and if so, what's his reaction to being asked? Does Worf decide against it at the last moment? Someone remind me, please!

Worf never actually ends up asking. He just says a bunch of stuff like "If I were considering dating someone you were involved with, or had been involved with, I would ask you first." Riker doesn't really get it and just kind of smirks when Worf awkwardly walks away.

 

[Jon1701]

I could have sworn that Worf approached Riker in reality.

He does.

The dream stuff doesnt happen till about half way throught the episode. Seems the actors were as confused as the OP when playing this scene. Jonathan Frakes played it too broadly and thought he might have to go back and reshoot it. TPTB decided to leave it in...

I'll agree, this episode is not one of TNG's finer moments - although I think its intentional to make things confusing.

 

[erastus25]

I could have sworn that Worf approached Riker in reality.

He does.

The dream stuff doesnt happen till about half way throught the episode. Seems the actors were as confused as the OP when playing this scene. Jonathan Frakes played it too broadly and thought he might have to go back and reshoot it. TPTB decided to leave it in...

I'll agree, this episode is not one of TNG's finer moments - although I think its intentional to make things confusing.

What's your source for this? The episode suggests that the hallucination started when Troi first stepped on to the platform very early in the episode. I see no reason to doubt that.

 

[Blueicus]

Well, considering that in AGT there was an estrangement between Worf and Riker (possibly due to the ambiguity of Worf's awkward request to Riker) I don't think Worf really approached Riker properly.

 

[Jon1701]

I could have sworn that Worf approached Riker in reality.

He does.

The dream stuff doesnt happen till about half way throught the episode. Seems the actors were as confused as the OP when playing this scene. Jonathan Frakes played it too broadly and thought he might have to go back and reshoot it. TPTB decided to leave it in...

I'll agree, this episode is not one of TNG's finer moments - although I think its intentional to make things confusing.

What's your source for this?

The episode suggests that the hallucination started when Troi first stepped on to the platform very early in the episode. I see no reason to doubt that.

The episode. I just rewatched it to make sure. Troi does go to the Nacelle room at the start of the episode where she gets the odd experience. It doesn't start here. We are still in reality at this point. We then see Troi in Sickbay - where Crusher tells her not to go back for three or four hours. A scene between Worf & Troi in her quarters occurs and then there is the Worf/Riker scene in Ten Forward.

At this point they go back to the nacelle tube and after Troi gets the flashback the dream sequence kicks in for the rest of the episode.

A good way to spot a dream sequence in Trek is the lack of a stock space shot (such as the Enterprise flying past camera). Since this is all occuring in Troi's head there are no space shots - as this would not make sense. Watch the episode again and you'll see what I mean. The space shots stop halfway through and don't return until the reveal at the end. Once you spot this, pretty much every episode of Trek with a dream sequence is ruined. You can spot when they are pulling your leg.

Other examples of this are Future Imperfect (TNG), Frame of Mind (TNG) & Inquistion (Ds9). No space shots.

As I said before, its a very confusing episode. Hope that clears it up!