Spock's comment at the end of 'The Enemy Within'

[Destructor]

Watched 'The Enemy Within' last night (am loving TOS on Blu-ray, am discovering the show all over again) and while it was absolutely ridiculously great (Shatner's acting! The cute dog-alien! Wimpy Kirk! Rapey Kirk!), I must say that Spock's final line kinda creeped me out. So basically, Rand was nearly raped by evil Kirk, and Spock goes to her: "So hey, that evil Kirk had some pretty interesting qualities, am I right Yeoman?"

What did he mean by that? To be charitable, in his Vulcan way he was saying that isn't it interesting that such evil lies in our normally lovely Captain. But to be less charitable, it sounded more like he was saying: "You kinda liked being attacked like that, didn't you?"

Would be interested in hearing alternate opinions on this.

 

[cwnorma]

Why be charitable, Spock's contempt for what he considered to be the worst attributes of humanity were often on display. If not with a remark then a raised brow...

I think that given a 1960s sensibility you have nailed the implications.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, it was a ham-handed and confused attempt by the writer to tease the character with "now you know that the Captain secretly lusts after you just like you do him."

Fail.

 

[Kegg]

Yeah, it was a ham-handed and confused attempt by the writer to tease the character with "now you know that the Captain secretly lusts after you just like you do him."

Yeah. Rewatched the episode recently and, er, Spock was basically teasing her about almost being raped. That would have been interesting!

I see so much of Mad Men in Star Trek these days it can be almost alarming.

 

[T'Bonz]

Yeah, it was a ham-handed and confused attempt by the writer to tease the character with "now you know that the Captain secretly lusts after you just like you do him."

Fail.

Bingo!

 

[UncleRogi]

I must agree that this is a relic of the time the show was produced; a woman leaving the kitchen was begging for attention, so let's leer and make crude jokes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm red blooded American Male, but I never saw the functionability of tiny skirts on a starship. Is this a place one really wants all the males distracted?

 

[Hambone]

Knowing Nimoy's integrity as an actor and his careful "guarding" of his Spock character, I'm surprised he agreed to deliver this line.

I suppose at this relatively early period in the life of the series, the character wasn't fully developed yet, and actors are actors, after all...he got to deliver the episode's punch line.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

He may not have taken it very seriously - you'd be surprised by how much "conscious-raising" has gone on about rape and sexual assault in America over the last five decades. Thoughtful people may always have recognized what the issue here was, but for all of the bleating about "political correctness" these days folks sometimes don't realize how careless individuals can be in their attention without sustained periods of social focus on such things. Rape victims were routinely treated badly and with suspicion during police investigations and at trial in just these respects (and often still are).

 

[Timo]

To be sure, later writing is in synch with the idea that Vulcans would be male chauvinists all. Naturally Spock, trying to out-Vulcan all Vulcans, would take that art to ultimate heights.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[scotpens]

. . . Don't get me wrong, I'm red blooded American Male, but I never saw the functionability of tiny skirts on a starship. Is this a place one really wants all the males distracted?

Hey, it was the Sixties. When designing a starship, you wanted functionality. When it came to designing the women’s uniforms, you wanted to see LEGS!

Also, paradoxical as it may seem, the miniskirt was seen as a symbol of female social and sexual liberation at that time, much like the short flapper dresses of 40 years earlier.

I suppose at this relatively early period in the life of the series, the character wasn't fully developed yet, and actors are actors, after all...he got to deliver the episode's punch line.

This rather strange sense of humor was soon written out of Spock’s character.

To be sure, later writing is in synch with the idea that Vulcans would be male chauvinists all.

As was par for the course with the writing in TOS, there was much inconsistency regarding the position of women in Vulcan society. In “Journey to Babel,” it's suggested that Vulcan wives are expected to be subservient and deferential to their husbands, at least in public. Yet, in “Amok Time,” the matriarch T’Pau is apparently the head of Spock's family, and it's implied that she holds considerable power in Vulcan society at large as well, although her exact office or position is never stated. And then, of course, there's that intriguing line of Nurse Chapel’s in “The Naked Time”:

The men from Vulcan treat their women strangely. At least, people say that. But you're part human too. I know you don't... you couldn't... hurt me...would you?

Hmmmm . . .

 

[A beaker full of death]

it sounded more like he was saying: "You kinda liked being attacked like that, didn't you?"

That's exactly what he was saying. There are many women like that -- especially in Roddenberry's mind, but also in reality. And certainly in movies of the day. How many times in older movies do you see a woman literally fighting off a man only to give in lustfully as he kisses her?

Yeah, it was a ham-handed and confused attempt by the writer to tease the character with "now you know that the Captain secretly lusts after you just like you do him."

Disagree. Rand wanted to be taken hard. Art imitating life for Whitney.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

How many times in older movies do you see a woman literally fighting off a man only to give in lustfully as he kisses her?

Get away from the movies and check out real life. You're in for some surprises.

Rand wanted to be taken hard. Art imitating life for Whitney.

Whitney was raped and was devastated by that. Your comment is dishonest and contemptible.

 

[Kegg]

That's exactly what he was saying. There are many women like that -- especially in Roddenberry's mind, but also in reality. And certainly in movies of the day. How many times in older movies do you see a woman literally fighting off a man only to give in lustfully as he kisses her?

This reminds me of Marnie, oddly enough. They had to let go the screenwriter because he felt Sean Connery raping Tippi Hedren was unforgivable, while Alfred Hitchcock felt that hey, it's Sean Connery, and clearly the girl has issues, so he's, uh, helping her through them. The audience will swallow it.

And well they did (not that she gave in, though, we see her at last panicked and the very next day is a suicide attempt. Charming.)

 

[Tralah]

Some women do have those types of fantasies, but there's a very fine line between fantasy roleplay between consenting partners agreed upon and discussed ahead of time and actually being attacked for real. Spock's line is an unfortunate relic from that time period.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Some women do have those types of fantasies, but there's a very fine line between fantasy roleplay between consenting partners agreed upon and discussed ahead of time and actually being attacked for real.

There's a line, but not a fine one at all. "Consenting and agreed-upon and discussed" versus criminal assault.

 

[plynch]

Disagree. Rand wanted to be taken hard. Art imitating life for Whitney.

That is really awful.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There've always been a couple of people around this forum who think it's funny to joke about what happened to Whitney. Maybe it's based in some anxiety about the fact that the assailant, connected with the studio and/or the show, has remained unnamed.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Yeah, it was a ham-handed and confused attempt by the writer to tease the character with "now you know that the Captain secretly lusts after you just like you do him."

Yeah. Rewatched the episode recently and, er, Spock was basically teasing her about almost being raped. That would have been interesting!

I see so much of Mad Men in Star Trek these days it can be almost alarming.

That's why I love Mad Men. Roger Sterling and Don Draper are the shabby, real world equivalents of Kirk and Spock.

Oh, and I know I'm gonna be roasted on a spit for this, but I think Matheson was also commenting on how common the fantasy was for women back in those days. On General Hospital, a show not exactly aimed at the male demographic, the fabled Luke and Laura romance began when he raped or tried to rape her.

 

[scotpens]

Disagree. Rand wanted to be taken hard. Art imitating life for Whitney.

That is really awful.

Yes, I do believe that crossed the line. Funny is funny, but bad taste is just bad taste.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Disagree. Rand wanted to be taken hard. Art imitating life for Whitney.

That is really awful.

Yes, I do believe that crossed the line. Funny is funny, but bad taste is just bad taste.

Wasn't really making a joke, and didn't really mean it to be at Whitney's expense. She has owned her dysfunction, and I commend her for it. There are women - many women - out there like that. Whether they have psychological issues or no is a debate for another day. It certainly wasn't seen as such until very recently.