Ships for the Gamma Quadrant (Pre-Dominion War Era)

[Redshirt214]

In a thread I posted a little while ago, about whether Starfleet was exploring the Gamma Quadrant pre-Dominion War (it's alluded too, as there are evidently ships missing in there, presumed destroyed), it got me thinking: what ships in Starfleet inventory would be best for sending to the Gamma Quadrant, through the wormhole, that were available to Starfleet back then?

I could envision two possible approaches: either assigning shorter ranged ships to explore the Quadrant, and having them use DS9 as a base camp, or else using larger and fairly self sufficient starships that could operate for a long time fairly independently since they would be relatively on their own in the Gamma Quadrant. I would think that, either way, Starfleet would want to send it's newer ships to the Quadrant? On this basis, on the larger end, I'd think Ambassador or Nebula classes would do well, supported by ships like the Cheyenne or the New Orleans?

On the other hand, it never seemed like there was too much emphasis put on exploring the Gamma Quadrant by Starfleet, so perhaps the eraly exploration would be relatively ad hoc and involve a rag tag assemblage of ships that, if lost, wouldn't matter much? I'd be interested in others thoughts about this... I imagine that prior to encountering the Dominion Starfleet would have taken a pretty business as usual type of approach to the Gamma Quadrant, and I seem to remember the Runabout were traveling through the Wormhole quite a bit so presumably they were part of the overall strategy as well?

 

[DEWLine]

I'd have wanted to see a starbase on the Idran side of the wormhole as a staging area.

 

[Dukhat]

I'd have wanted to see a starbase on the Idran side of the wormhole as a staging area.

That would have made a lot of sense, but then a second station would have detracted from Deep Space Nine. That’s probably why they ended up going with the automated relay (which ended up getting destroyed anyway.)

 

[publiusr]

I wanted Empok Nor there or at the Barzan wormhole, stabilized by pah-wraiths for the Dominion

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Don’t forget the Klingons! They were notably keen to send a big scary Vorcha-class cruiser on a science mission, for all the good THAT did them.

By DS9‘s second season finale they had set up the New Bajor colony, which was an early casualty of the Dominion conflict. I imagine that it may well have eventually served as a base of some sort for further AQ operations, and whenever Bajor achieved Federation membership, the colony would come along too somehow. If they were looking for a real place to put a starbase, New Bajor would’ve been a good long-term candidate.

As for the known missing ships, Memory Beta tags them as an Istanbul-class transport, a Renaissance-class ship, and a Nebula. The last one we know best of course, and it was PROBABLY the biggest of the missing lot and a good candidate for an exploration mission. The other two may have been detailed to explore the nearer area around the wormhole, or to support existing missions, outposts, or patrol the nascent AQ sphere of influence.

My guess is that with the wormhole placing DS9 (and the Starfleet logistical supply chain) effectively IN the Gamma Quadrant for the foreseeable future, that they were relying on the station to be the hub for short-range exploration missions of the GQ. The wormhole means that the nearest help is only a few light years away, and not 70k+. If expansion were ever to advance to the point that the immediate area around the Idran side would be self-sufficient, then orbital and standalone deep space facilities could ultimately be justified - and DS9 may become obsolete as ships heading to the GQ would stop on the far side and not some old ore-processing facility pressed into service as a waystation. But really, they probably wouldn’t assign any explorers known to have long-term missions in mind, at least not in the first few years. Of course the Dominion made THAT plan go awry…

Mark

 

[Redshirt214]

Looking at Memory Alpha, the USS. Proxima, Nebula class, was evidently on a exploration mission, given her size probably a long duration one. I agree with the idea that DS9 would have been home base for any exploration of the Gamma Quadrant in the early days, it seems logical to me and backed up by much of what occurs in the show.

I do think New Bajor would have been a major destination for any starship in the area before the Dominion wiped it out: even though Bajor isn't a Federation member they are receiving Federation aid and are allies. I imagine that transport was probably heading to New Bajor (where else would it be going, otherwise?).

I've been trying to puzzle out what kind of ship might find itself in a Voyager type situation in the Gamma Quadrant with the mining of the wormhole back to DS9...

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Well, by the time of the minefield, any longer-term exploration of the GQ would surely have been suspended for some three years. Arguably any in-progress exploration missions would have been cancelled and recalled as things were heating up; during this time, the Defiant only rarely engaged in some exploration or recon stuff over there (mostly to accommodate one-off episodes), and DS9 launched our heroes on infrequent runabout-bound survey type missions (probably to stay under the radar), but by and large I’m certain Starfleet did say nope to any comprehensive program STARTING following the beginning of the third season.

It does come down to what "long-duration" actually means in this context... Using Voyager as a yardstick, they were still doing up to 1000 light years per year, WITH stopovers for assorted anomalies or backtracks. Applying this to a more generic exploration mission, you could probably task any dedicated explorer with a year-long mission from the Idran terminus, but it'd really be a six month / 500ly trip out and then back, probably along some ellipsoid path so they explore stuff on the way back to the starting point. Would that be "long-duration" in anyone's book? I guess it's relative.

Early episodes of DS9 featured ships returning from the wormhole bearing assorted plot devices within a few weeks or months of the wormhole being declared open for business (a late first season episode had Odo interacting with a Vulcan ship on its way back). This suggests to me that the initial wave of exploration featured missions only weeks or months long, and these would gradually increase in duration as the nearby worlds got staked out for resources, colonization or trade. Given that they really had less than two years of pre-Dominion exploration, I'd say that even the "long duration" missions wouldn't be all THAT long unless they were just out there to chart the area and not stop everywhere.

Mark

 

[Redshirt214]

I need to go rewatch DS9, because I forgot the length of time between the Odyssey Incident and the wormhole mining. I got the sense that the first wave of explorers were really just scratching the surface of what was out there in the Gamma Quadrant. I'd think a ship the size of a Nova class would be intended to be on a several years long mission out in the Gamma Quadrant though? But of course with it's disappearance (and likely destruction) that'd probably have put paid any future long term expeditions to the Quadrant.

Do you think any of the ships in the Quadrant could have escaped destruction by the Dominion, and perhaps have been chased deeper into space trying to avoid their pursuit? I recall that the Odyssey's shields were nullified by the Dominions weapons of that time, but then again the runabouts got away from that engagement so perhaps a smaller class of ship might have also been able to flee?

 

[matthunter]

Do you think any of the ships in the Quadrant could have escaped destruction by the Dominion, and perhaps have been chased deeper into space trying to avoid their pursuit? I recall that the Odyssey's shields were nullified by the Dominions weapons of that time, but then again the runabouts got away from that engagement so perhaps a smaller class of ship might have also been able to flee?

Could make for a Trek version of Battlestar Galactica. Starfleet got past the "Dominion weapons got right through our shields" issue fairly quick, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a resourceful crew could find the same fix. The issue would be dealing with the overkill the Jem'hadar like to throw at ship-to-ship combat.

Did we ever learn exactly how the Dominion was located in the Gamma Quadrant? Their space began some way away from the wormhole's Idran terminus, but if you HAD to go the slow route back to the Federation, might that actually take you DEEPER into their territory?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

There were three seasons between the loss of the Odyssey and the mining of the wormhole. I'm in the middle of a rewatch now, and it's pretty clear that all the AQ powers have stopped their exploration, although Starfleet has let DS9's heroes poke their nose around quietly while some trade (notably Ferengi) has continued unabated. Once it was clear that the Founders had been interfering in AQ politics in an effort to weaken them, the latter started getting bolder again but it was basically still DS9 that went and did their business on the Gamma side.

A Nova was, per Janeway, meant only for "short term planetary research" missions. For that, I'd say it'd have been well-suited to exploration of the space near the Idran end of the wormhole, using DS9 as its base. We saw she had bunk beds in the Equinox quarters, suggesting that they had very limited living quarters not suited to longer missions (though that could have easily been a sacrifice for all the damage the ship had taken over the years). But for missions that are maybe too much for the same "planetary survey" mission that Sisko took Jake, Nog and Quark on in the very episode they lost the Odyssey, a Nova-class ship would seem a decent choice for a smaller ship and crew that can do a bunch of planets in a row before heading back.

As for ships surviving once the Dominion told Starfleet to stay off their lawn? Well, the USS Sarajevo was reported missing as noted above, and yet afterwards she was visually referenced (more than once!) on a list of ships reporting casualties. Production sources at the time confirmed they were the same ship, so it's entirely possible that she somehow evaded the Dominion long enough to run / sneak / limp back to the wormhole at some point and be in shape for the Dominion War itself.

Mark

 

[matthunter]

Yes I forgot there was a lengthy period after the Dominion announced "stay the hell out" and them actually invading. And during that, they were a little lax in guarding the wormhole - sure, they wanted Tain's fleet to get through - but Odo and Garak didn't seem surprised there was no Jem'hadar blockade on the Gamma side (not even a single bug ship on patrol!).... a stranded Fed ship after the New Bajor attack would be better off lying low and making a run for the wormhole.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I don't think the Dominion was ever really seriously worried about a full invasion, and thus probably never made any real defensive moves in terms of military positioning. After officially revealing themselves, they quickly calculated the crippling of the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar, and worked on destabilizing the Klingon Empire and Federation through planted agents. Their plans clearly steered clear of military conquest for the first couple years at least, to the point that they added the Cardassian Union as a puppet state and effective buffer to their home quadrant interests. As such, I'm wondering if any ships that "disappeared" by DS9's fifth season would have had much trouble heading home, if they weren't destroyed outright.

At no point after the (deliberately incited) attack on the Founder homeworld did any Alpha Quadrant power state for the record that they wanted to attack the Dominion on their home turf, instead focusing on defensive operations and alliances - which is probably exactly what the Founders wanted. At the end of the day, but for stuff like Section 31's operations and our Starfleet heroes ultimately banding everyone together in a common cause, the Dominion's plans were largely fulfilled.

Mark

 

[Redshirt214]

I assumed that the "disappeared" ships probably got destroyed like the Odyssey, but now that I think of it at least some might have just gotten lost the old fashioned way- spatial anomaly, time loop, ect ect. I agree that "laying low and making a run for the wormhole" sounds like the sort of thing a ship that survived New Bajor's destruction would want to do... and laying low might mean a lot of hiding from Dominion patrols vs making an all out run for the wormhole.

It's interesting you bring up the Nova, that ship did seem like a very good choice for what Starfleet was planning to do in terms of exploration in the area. Since it was based on the Defiant pathfinder, I imagine that a Nova class ship would compliment the Defiant quite nicely.

 

[Dukhat]

Here’s what I never understood: Talak’talan clearly tells Sisko that any ship entering Dominion space would be destroyed. Later, Dax (presumably speaking for all the Federation) states to Talak’talan that the Dominion can’t stop the Federation from exploring the Gamma Quadrant.

Let’s think about this for a second. An alien superpower tells another superpower that they cannot encroach upon their territory, and the second superpower basically ignores them, ostensibly because that other superpower is viewed as the ‘good guys’ in this situation. But really, the Federation brought the war on themselves by ignoring the Dominion’s request to not enter their territory. Dax should have just said, “OK, we won’t send ships through the wormhole anymore.” Sure, the Dominion probably had plans to invade the Alpha Quadrant anyway, but that still doesn’t justify the Federation’s blatant ignorance of the Dominion’s right to not have them encroach upon their space.

 

[David cgc]

Talak'talan seems to draw broad equivalencies between "Dominion territory" and "space," and "interfering" and "existing." By the Dominion's own standards, the Federation could view the Jem'Hadar ship coming through the wormhole to tell them they'd taken Sisko hostage as an attack on the Federation. Hell, by the Dominion's standards, the Federation could say the Dominion ship approaching the Gamma side of the wormhole was an attack on the Federation.

That's not even touching the fact that the Dominion had not only been trading peacefully with alpha quadrant societies, but continued to do so even after Talak'talan's ultimatum. "Any alpha quadrant ship on our side of the galaxy is an act of war, unless it's carrying tulaberry wine, and, of course, our people can come to your side as much as they like" is not a coherent foreign policy.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I dunno if Dax was speaking on behalf of the Federation / Starfleet. Functionally she was speaking on behalf of the SHOW, sure; but did she have any authority to say that they were definitely going to continue Starfleet's primary mission regardless of what some visiting iguana would say? Or is it because she, as the ranking Starfleet officer remaining on DS9, didn't recognize the authority of a blatantly hostile declaration?

Regarding the trade thing, the Karemma did say that they were only a small part of the Dominion... I'm not sure what that REALLY means, unless it's to establish that there is some level of trade that is permitted with non-Dominion species and places that will go unnoticed or uncared for. Or, just as likely IMO, this was allowed by the Dominion specifically to facilitate the movement of spies, agents and information back and forth to the Alpha Quadrant. Given how quickly we saw them able to manipulate the assorted AAQ races over the next three years, I'm not really at all surprised if this was part of their overall strategy.

Mark

 

[matthunter]

Here’s what I never understood: Talak’talan clearly tells Sisko that any ship entering Dominion space would be destroyed. Later, Dax (presumably speaking for all the Federation) states to Talak’talan that the Dominion can’t stop the Federation from exploring the Gamma Quadrant.

This is only an issue if you think the Dominion encompasses the entire Gamma Quadrant. It clearly didn't - there are worlds not part of the Dominion encountered by the Federation much earlier i.e. closer to the wormhole - and that alone puts any Dominion claim on the Idran system on shaky footing. They can TRY to stop the Federation, but absent a treaty they have no more claim over the Idran terminus than, say, the Ferengi.

Interestingly, the Alpha side of the wormhole isn't in Federation territory either. Luckily Bajor is willing to allow the Federation some leeway in military defence in their system, but not always.

 

[Redshirt214]

I suppose what Dax was saying is more or less "you may think you've got rid of the Federation by forcing them to leave your territory, but what you've actually done is force them to explore everywhere else in the Gamma Quadrant. You've also told them no, and though they won't admit it that will just make them more interested in the Gamma Quadrant. They'll be back, and next time they aren't going to be in the mood to negotiate."

We humans are too persistent and curious for our own good, and far too stubborn to be intimidated (esp by a civilization run by a mud puddle).