Shared universe with other franchises

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Well, science is more aware of that now than when SeaQuest was made, and I think the public is more aware of it too.

The tiny water tanks that they live in on the USS Cerritos seem too small.

I don't think it's enough room compared to a dedicated vessel like what we saw with the Xindi Aquatics.

I could see a future where the UFP has a special StarShip designed for Aquatic Animal life with a minor area with normal air for regular Bi-PaBs {Bi-(Pedal & Brachial)-oids} like us.

Sometimes, different species need to be amongst their own kind in StarShips that are designed for them if they plan on exploring the Stars with us.

 

[The Wormhole]

The tiny water tanks that they live in on the USS Cerritos seem too small.

We only see the top portion where the non-cetacean crew can directly interact with the cetaceans. Presumably the tank is much larger below. It would have to be in order for those belugas to throw the kind of wild parties they are said to.

 

[FormerLurker]

Yes, but the point is, how many other of their contemporary bands achieved comparable fame? I could buy it happening once or twice, but not with every single early-2000s band that might've done a cameo in an ENT episode if they'd gone through with this crazy plan. It's a matter of statistics.

This is where you argue that Enterprise have only one or two bands on, not a new one every week. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones is fine, but leave the Wayfarers at the hungry i.

 

[Christopher]

This is where you argue that Enterprise have only one or two bands on, not a new one every week. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones is fine, but leave the Wayfarers at the hungry i.

Yeah, but that's not the way these cross-promotion deals worked. Presumably UPN wanted to do it the same way it was done on contemporary shows like Buffy, Charmed, etc., where a different band appears each week and there's an ad at the end saying how you can order their album. It's the way network execs think: If a given formula worked before, it has to be done the same way every time, whether it fits a specific show or not. That's no doubt why they proposed such a ludicrously ill-fitting gimmick in the first place.

 

[FormerLurker]

Yeah, but that's not the way these cross-promotion deals worked. Presumably UPN wanted to do it the same way it was done on contemporary shows like Buffy, Charmed, etc., where a different band appears each week and there's an ad at the end saying how you can order their album. It's the way network execs think: If a given formula worked before, it has to be done the same way every time, whether it fits a specific show or not. That's no doubt why they proposed such a ludicrously ill-fitting gimmick in the first place.

I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying there are degrees of telling the network execs they're stupid, and the scorched earth method ENT used probably contributed to their being canceled. Letting those execs think they've put one over on the producers while staving off the timeliness damage as much as possible would have been better all around. There are ways of making it work. They used a bad one.

 

[Christopher]

I'm saying there are degrees of telling the network execs they're stupid, and the scorched earth method ENT used probably contributed to their being canceled.

Huh? That makes no sense. This was something the network wanted when the show was in initial development. It didn't get cancelled until four years later, which is actually a longer-than-average run as TV series in general go, and that happened because of falling ratings.

And it's hardly a "scorched earth method" to point out the simple objective fact that a proposal is irreconcilable with the premise of the series. Just because I think the network had a monumentally stupid idea doesn't mean the producers presented their argument in that way. After all, Rick Berman started as a network executive himself, so these were his kind of people and he surely knew how to talk to them on their terms.

Heck, the network only had themselves to blame. Berman and Braga wanted the show to be Earthbound for the first season, and maybe the band thing could've worked there, if it were presented as an oldies bar or something. But the execs insisted on getting out into space right away, and there was simply no sensible way to reconcile that.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

They could've compromised and done it in Earth flashback episodes, if there was a runtime deficit, or have a character watching an old music video for some reason - background music in sickbay, perhaps, during a low-tension scene.

 

[Christopher]

They could've compromised and done it in Earth flashback episodes, if there was a runtime deficit, or have a character watching an old music video for some reason - background music in sickbay, perhaps, during a low-tension scene.

I for one am glad they didn't compromise. It would've been a cheap sellout. Star Trek should be better than that.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

Yes, but the point is, how many other of their contemporary bands achieved comparable fame? I could buy it happening once or twice, but not with every single early-2000s band that might've done a cameo in an ENT episode if they'd gone through with this crazy plan...

So what if they did?

 

[Christopher]

So what if they did?

I already answered that. It would have been much harder to believe or to take seriously. I don't know about you, but to me, that matters in a Star Trek show, and it used to matter to their makers and their fans. A large part of what made Trek successful was that it was smarter, more authentic, and classier than most of its contemporary sci-fi shows. These days there are more shows that live up to its standards, which is good, but I find it sad that people today seem to think it's okay for Trek to settle for the lowest common denominator. Modern fandom wouldn't exist, this BBS wouldn't exist, if Trek had had such low standards all along.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

I already answered that. It would have been much harder to believe or to take seriously. I don't know about you, but to me, that matters in a Star Trek show, and it used to matter to their makers and their fans. A large part of what made Trek successful was that it was smarter, more authentic, and classier than most of its contemporary sci-fi shows. These days there are more shows that live up to its standards, which is good, but I find it sad that people today seem to think it's okay for Trek to settle for the lowest common denominator. Modern fandom wouldn't exist, this BBS wouldn't exist, if Trek had had such low standards all along.

So the only music "worthy" of an enlightened humanity is long hair concert music...got it.

 

[Christopher]

So the only music "worthy" of an enlightened humanity is long hair concert music...got it.

What the hell does that have to do with anything I'm saying? I'm not talking about the genre of the music, I'm talking about the obvious stupidity of the network wanting humanity's first warp-5 starship -- the one and only human vessel capable of traveling to deep, deep space in weeks or months instead of years -- to have pop bands from Earth routinely coming and going to perform in the ship's mess hall. I mean, in "The Expanse," when Earth was attacked and Enterprise was called home, it took them two months to get back -- and no other ship of Earth manufacture was capable of going remotely that fast. The whole premise of the series was built around the fact that NX-01 was the first. Do you see the problem now?

 

[somebuddyX]

I think Enterprise havings bands onboard would have been a terrible idea.
Now TNG having bands aboard, brilliant idea.
We cut to Ten Forward in "Allegiance" and Alice in Chains is playing. Jane's Addiction is playing Geordi and Ro's wake. Sonic Youth playing while they're trapped in the Tyken's Rift and stirring up trouble.

 

[Christopher]

Now TNG having bands aboard, brilliant idea.
We cut to Ten Forward in "Allegiance" and Alice in Chains is playing. Jane's Addiction is playing Geordi and Ro's wake. Sonic Youth playing while they're trapped in the Tyken's Rift and stirring up trouble.

Well, the original idea was that the E-D was way out on the uncharted frontier, so that would've been an impractical idea. But given that they almost immediately gave up on that idea and had the ship spend most of its time in and around Federation space and its neighbors, that would've been more feasible -- something like a USO show touring the front lines and visiting the troops. Another possibility would've been to have bands back home send holographic recordings of their shows to play in the holodeck. Or just holographic recreations of historic bands, so they could play themselves. But I would've preferred to see that mixed up with holo-concerts of music from other eras, past and future, and from planets other than Earth.

But of course, it wouldn't have happened on TNG, because that was a syndicated show and it didn't have UPN execs trying to lure in teens and college students to spend money on pop band cross-promotions like they did on so many of their shows.

 

[Shawnster]

But given that they almost immediately gave up on that idea and had the ship spend most of its time in and around Federation space and its neighbors, that would've been more feasible

Or the band on the D is holographic.

Still have the problem of these 20th century bands being massively popular in the 24th century. On the other hand, there was the very meta joke of a disco party on Discovery featuring a cover of a 20th century disco song being played in the 23rd century.

Instead of bands on the NX-01 the crew could be entertained by music videos. Still, this leaves the implausible band popularity issue.

Or the band could be in uniform and the premise could be these are crew members playing in the live band.

 

[The Wormhole]

On the other hand, there was the very meta joke of a disco party on Discovery featuring a cover of a 20th century disco song being played in the 23rd century.

Wyclef Jean's We Trying to Stay Alive which samples The Bee Gees Stayin Alive is an actual song, and indeed just a few months before that Disco episode aired it could be heard in the movie Valerian.

 

[Shawnster]

Thanks!

 

[F. King Daniel]

As others have stated above, we've had TV shows that crossed over with Trek via main character dreams. But to my knowledge, we haven't had the reverse - a Star Trek character on a Star Trek episode who (dreams or otherwise that they're) stuck in the world of a different real show that's also a show to them (i.e. if there'd been an episode of TNG where Picard dreams he's hanging out with the characters of Full House, all in character)

Why use dreams when Trek has a holodeck? Not a perfect example, but imagine that Columbo episode which featured much of the TOS cast. Now imagine they also made a TOS holodeck episode where Columbo became aware that Spock wasn't human and it went a bit "Elementary Dear Data"

On show A, it's just the Trek actors as guest stars

On show B, the Trek actors are LARPING on the holodeck as show A characters and something goes wrong

You could cross over with anything!

 

[Christopher]

imagine that Columbo episode which featured much of the TOS cast.

You'd have to imagine it, since it didn't exist. There was "Fade in to Murder," where William Shatner was the murderer-of-the-week and Walter Koenig had a brief walk-on as a police sergeant, but that's hardly "much of the TOS cast." Also, IMDb claims that Majel Barrett had a hospital announcement voiceover role in Leonard Nimoy's "A Stitch in Crime," but if so, it was uncredited and the Columbo-specific reference sources I checked don't confirm it.

Shatner's episode in the revival series, "Butterfly in Shades of Gray," featured several guests from later series -- Molly Hagan from DS9: "The Jem'Hadar," Beverly Leech from VGR: "Nightingale," Brian Markinson from TNG: "Homeward" and VGR: "Cathexis" and "Faces," and Denice Kumagai from the voice cast of the games Elite Force II and Armada II -- but no other TOS actors.

Now imagine they also made a TOS holodeck episode

Another thing that didn't exist.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You'd have to imagine it, since it didn't exist

You're right, my brain somehow juxtaposed Colombo with Diagnosis: Murder

Another thing that didn't exist.

TAS had it's rec room, and the latest SNW trailer has a TNG-style holodeck so ... retcons be retconning.