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Saavik I vs. Saavik II?

Who is your favourite Saavik?

  • Kirstie Alley

    Votes: 16 80.0%
  • Robin Curtis

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • Total voters
    20

ananta

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
The first six Trek movies are among my favourite film series of all time, but one of the slight blunders for me is the recasting of Saavik.

Kirstie Alley made a tremendous impression in ST II.

Right from the offset, she gave a thoroughly engaging, compelling and charming performance (yes, it’s not often Vulcans get to be charming, and few actors playing Vulcans have ever succeeded, but Alley and Nimoy do). It’s abundantly clear that Alley was a star in the making and she had tremendous screen presence. She was, in fact, something of a scene stealer.

It’s still unclear exactly what happened when it came to casting ST III. Alley claims they offered her less money to do the part, while the producers and maybe Nimoy claimed she was offered a huge amount more but turned it down.

I like Robin Curtis and i don’t actually blame her at all for what I’m about to say, as I feel she was misdirected by Nimoy, who wanted to retcon the character from feisty half-Romulan (albeit a fact that wasn’t established on screen) to a straight up by-the-book Vulcan (“byyy the book!”).

Admittedly Saavik has a much reduced role in the third film, but she’s just not the same character to me. I’m of the opinion that if you recast a character, you shouldn’t give the actor carte blanche to create an entirely new interpretation. The audience needs to feel that they’re watching the same character, or it creates something of a disconnect and potentially pulls them out of the fictional world.

In contrast to Alley’s version, Curtis’ Saavik is not particularly compelling, dynamic and she doesn’t really come to life on screen. She’s just kind of…there. Until she’s hastily written out at the start of the next film. Interestingly, I actually find Curtis’ performance more effective in ST VI even though she’s only on screen for about 20 seconds. You can tell she’s holding something back when it comes to Spock (as was intended in the script but never made explicit). This gives her more depth than the very flat portrayal in III.

But nothing beats the original Saavik in my view. I actually wonder what it’d have been like if she’d remained part of the crew for the rest of the TOS features.

It’s an age old question but I haven’t seen it discussed in any recent threads. But what are your thoughts on the two Saavik’s? Is the recast a misfire or do you actually prefer Curtis’ Vulcanised Vulcan?
 
I have to agree that the re-interpretation of the character in STIII was a bit hard to absorb at first, and I'm of the belief that it was Nimoy who decided that Saavik needed to be more Vulcan, and in that regard, Robin Curtis did an admirable job.

But first impressions linger and I will always think of Saavik as being Kirstie's portrayal. It is a shame that they never elaborated on screen that she was half-Romulan, though I'm not certain if that was scripted, or an added nuance that Vonda McIntyre came up with for the novelization.
 
I just wish the character had been used in the TNG era given that Saavik's canonically the same age as Tuvok they could've had her in any of the shows or movies without explanation.
 
Because of my age at the time the films came out -- 8 and 10 -- reading the novelizations at the time, plus the DC comic books, the two Saaviks aren't really differentiated in my head. I really wouldn't have known in 1984 when I saw the film at the drive-in that the actress had changed, and even if I did, it had been two years since I'd seen Star Trek II and I wouldn't have remembered Alley's performance well enough to be able to compare it to Curtis'. I may think of Curtis more than Alley for various tie-in reasons -- Tom Sutton's Saavik just looked more like Curtis than Alley, Pocket Book uses Curtis on book covers instead of Alley -- but they are both just Saavik to me. Any differences with the performances I chalk up to the situation the character faces at that moment and can, I think, be explained away.

I don't feel Curtis was misdirected in Star Trek III -- I think she gave the performance Nimoy wanted -- though I agree that Nimoy wanted to retcon the character. Possibly he felt the character Alley and Meyer created together was misconceived. I think Nimoy had his own ideas about what that character should be, ideas that would be easier to achieve with a new actress than with Alley, and when there was an issue over money it became easy for Nimoy to walk away and begin afresh. Had things worked out with Alley, though, I can't imagine that her performance in Star Trek III would have been greatly different than Curtis'; Nimoy wanted what he wanted, and Alley would have been on the receiving end of the "Again, but colder" direction that Curtis received.

As I sat here typing that last paragraph, I began to wonder if the reason Harve Bennett wrote out Saavik in Star Trek IV is because Nick Meyer, who wrote the 20th-century portion of the film, wasn't interested in writing Curtis' Saavik, possibly because he felt Nimoy's retcon of the character was equally misconceived. When Meyer had an opportunity to use Saavik in Star Trek VI, he was only interested in working with Alley, not Curtis, and when that fell through, he went in a different direction. This does suggest that Alley is the "canonical" Saavik--the writer and director who created her has a clear preference--but again, both actresses are Saavik to me.
 
I don't feel Curtis was misdirected in Star Trek III -- I think she gave the performance Nimoy wanted -- though I agree that Nimoy wanted to retcon the character. Possibly he felt the character Alley and Meyer created together was misconceived. I think Nimoy had his own ideas about what that character should be, ideas that would be easier to achieve with a new actress than with Alley, and when there was an issue over money it became easy for Nimoy to walk away and begin afresh. Had things worked out with Alley, though, I can't imagine that her performance in Star Trek III would have been greatly different than Curtis'; Nimoy wanted what he wanted, and Alley would have been on the receiving end of the "Again, but colder" direction that Curtis received.

At the time (being around 10 year old), the differences between Alley and Curtis went completely over my head. But in retrospect, it's almost like they are two completely different characters who coincidentally share the same name.

When Meyer had an opportunity to use Saavik in Star Trek VI, he was only interested in working with Alley, not Curtis, and when that fell through, he went in a different direction. This does suggest that Alley is the "canonical" Saavik--the writer and director who created her has a clear preference--but again, both actresses are Saavik to me.

Saavik being the saboteur would have worked far better than Valeris.
 
I just wish the character had been used in the TNG era given that Saavik's canonically the same age as Tuvok they could've had her in any of the shows or movies without explanation.

That's two of us. It would have been very easy to write the character into a TNG story and it would've been quite interesting to learn where her career in Starfleet had taken her after the events of STIV.

As it was, Curtis did appear in two episodes of Season 7, not as Saavik, but ironically a Romulan.
 
At the time (being around 10 year old), the differences between Alley and Curtis went completely over my head. But in retrospect, it's almost like they are two completely different characters who coincidentally share the same name.



Saavik being the saboteur would have worked far better than Valeris.
It’s just sentimentality on my part, but I’m glad they didn’t have Saavik go bad. Admittedly, young me was quite taken with Alley’s Saavik, especially with the Hellguard background from the novelization.
 
I was 20 when TWoK came out, I was all 'yum!' and finally got why women thought Spock was hot. She was a good fit for the role. I missed her in TSfS and TVH.

Would Kirstie have gotten her part on Cheers if she's typecast as Saavik?
 
I think Kirstie Alley and Robin Curtis both did good jobs in their respective films. The problem is that they were not playing the same character, no matter what name was attached to it. Nick Meyer and Leonard Nimoy had two entirely different ideas for the character. But by TSFS, the character had already been established. Nimoy should have either stuck with what was established or introduced a new character.

Frankly, there was no reason the character in TSFS needed to be Saavik. They could have changed the character to a different Vulcan as easily as they did in TUC. When Alley was confirmed to not be reprising the role, and Nimoy decided he wanted a different interpretation anyway, they should have just gone with a different character.
 
I was 20 when TWoK came out, I was all 'yum!'
You were not the only one who felt that way.

Alley was definitely easy on the eyes. But it wasn't just that which made Alley's Saavik so appealing to me. Right in the opening scene, when Saavik uttered, in her sultry voice, "Damn", she won me over. I knew that I was going to like this new character.

Also, it was fun to watch the way Saavik and Kirk interacted and played off each other. There was that turbolift scene. Kirk asked Saavik if she did something different with her hair. It came across as almost flirtatious. And then Kirk being coy when Saavik asked how he handled the Kobayashi Maru test.

There were other moments like that. Saavik's and Kirk's nervous reaction to each other as Saavik took the conn for the first time out of space dock.

One other amusing moment, that I remember off the top of my head, is Kirk putting on his eye glasses for the first time, right in front of Saavik and seeing her reaction.

Those were some of the charming Saavik moments in the movie.

In spite of heavyweights, like Shatner, Nimoy and Montalban in the movie, I thought Alley almost stole the show.

As for Curtis' portrayal of Saavik, it was a dramatic change of pace. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, was how I felt about it. But in hindsight, I would say that Curtis did a good job in portraying the character according to how Nimoy wanted.

ETA, I'm glad that Alley did not return as Saavik in TSFS, if Nimoy had required that Alley portray Saavik the way that Curtis did. That would have been really awkward to see, and it would have been a disservice to Alley's portrayal of Saavik in TWOK, imo.
 
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While I missed her presence in STIII as well, I know I would've been somewhat bummed if she had been forced to portray the character differently than she had in the previous film.
 
I saw Search for Spock and Voyage Home first, so Robin Curtis is my Saavik. Plus I think her performance is the most convincingly Vulcan.
 
Thank God Saavik outclassed J T Esteban with regulations familiarity and got the hell off the Grissom. :)

No favoritism for either Saavik actress from me. Having said that, I was stunned by the character's beauty in her first appearance in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, as well as the most recent in the short film, Unification.

And for transparency's sake, Robin Curtis resembled someone I had a crush on long ago... :)
 
I agree that it was directorial authority that led to the difference in tone. Cattrall's Vulcan is horribly emotive due to Meyer's direction. I would not have minded seeing Curtis play a more emotional version of Saavik, like the Otoy version, in preference to an emotional full Vulcan. I would also have liked to see a flashback of her time on Hellguard in STV.

I don't think her role in STVI need have been quite so cold as Valeris. Instead of the mind assault, Saavik could have been more peripherally involved and more open to seeing the error of her ways. STVI was quite clunky and laden with plot holes as it is. Valeris would never have been so foolish to fall for Spock's ruse. Lights out, not a single guard, no medical staff. She would have beamed in cyanide capsules, engineered a distraction, a system failure or security threat, at the very least.
 
You were not the only one who felt that way.

Alley was definitely easy on the eyes. But it wasn't just that which made Alley's Saavik so appealing to me. Right in the opening scene, when Saavik uttered, in her sultry voice, "Damn", she won me over. I knew that I was going to like this new character.

I was all 'Oh, a Vulcan in command? About time, Kirk was years ago'.....who swears? (blink-blink) But still acts Vulcan. Ok, I'm all in. This is going to be a good one.' Then Shat appears.

I remember how excited I was to see TWoK.
 
There were other moments like that. Saavik's and Kirk's nervous reaction to each other as Saavik took the conn for the first time out of space dock.
That moment has always bothered me, actually. Why? Because she's just sitting in the captain's chair in command. Sulu is doing the driving. It's not like if she gave the wrong order, he was going to crash the ship. He would have gently and professionally corrected her. I think it would have made more sense if Spock had directed Sulu to give up his seat to Saavik and she had actually piloted the ship. Spock even asks here about "piloting" but then doesn't have her do that.
 
That moment has always bothered me, actually. Why? Because she's just sitting in the captain's chair in command. Sulu is doing the driving. It's not like if she gave the wrong order, he was going to crash the ship. He would have gently and professionally corrected her. I think it would have made more sense if Spock had directed Sulu to give up his seat to Saavik and she had actually piloted the ship. Spock even asks here about "piloting" but then doesn't have her do that.

You are absolutely right, but the captain’s chair has always been the center of action on the bridge.

It would’ve felt “less important” had she been at the helm.
 
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