S1 vs. S2 vs. S3 (comparing seasons)

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I love this show, but I feel it has a bit of an identity crisis. It feels more like a trilogy of miniseries rather than a 3-season show. S2 doesn't build on S1, and S3 doesn't build on S2 nor much from S1. I loved S1 and S3, for me, equally entertaining. I like to call S2 the WTF season regarding plot, but the actors and characters make it work. Regarding S2, I remember being really annoyed and Raffi and Seven talking about how the world had gone to hell because of a few bad days in LA in 2024. Just a little judgmental, ya know? I think the dialogue would have worked better if they talked about how things were only going to get worse with WW3 some 20-30 years down the road. I think that might have been heavier and resonated better with the audience.

Depending on who you ask, there seems to be hate for S1-2 and love for S3. I like all 3, but with some WTF toward S2. I'm in the minority in that while S3 is awesome, I see it as equal to S1, not better. I also hated that the S1-2 cast was effectively dumped for S3.

Picard's Season 3 Cast
Picard: Obviously, he'll be back, this is his own show. Seven and Raffi: They'd been part of S1-2, so it made sense to return for S3. Bringing back the TNG cast for the final season made sense. I really enjoyed Soji, Rios, Agnes, Elnor, Laris, and Tallin. It really bothered me that they all basically got dumped for S3. Like Q, the Borg Queen, and Guinan, Tallin was meant to be a S2 only character, so I can work with that. Rios and Agnes both got a sendoff of sorts, so I can work with that. Dahj died, Sutra was mostly background, and Kore ran off with Wesley. Isa Briones got to be central to the cast for 2 seasons, then just... forgotten? It would have nice for Soji to have stuck around and met Data. I'd have been fine with 1 episode. Elnor, literally put on a bus... I mean starship.. and forgotten in S3. Come on. He was one of the best parts of S1! Finally, we come to Laris. She's in the opening 2-3 episodes of S1 and bookended S2, if I remember right. Where was Laris in the S3 finale? I get she's not part of the main plot, but seriously, why not feature her in the finale? Who did Picard hook up with? The man's gonna be dead of old age soon, it's now or never, Picard! Laris, Beverly, pick one, and be happy!

I do love the 10-hour saga that was Season 3. My objections are mostly in S1-2 characters being dropped out, and really, just that. Would it really have bankrupted the studio to give us a few cameos from Soji, Elnor, and Laris to show they're still part of Picard's life? (sigh)

We'll I'm ranting about S3, what thing I did not understand about the Stargazer and the Titan-A. The Stargazer, clearly a new starship, but some of the dialogue suggests it's a refit. Writer's goof? The Titan-A, the dialogue gets more confusing. Is it a new ship or a refit of Riker's ship, something not possible? Did Riker command the Titan-A before the new guy who's name I forget? Why else would he have to scrub Riker's jazz music from the computer? Dialogue suggests the ship is 5 years old, it's been 2 years since S1, and I'm pretty sure Riker'd been retired for more than 3 years when we see him in S1. S1 is 2399, S2 is 2401, S3 is also 2401. I can buy it's just a few months after the S2 finale, but... how did Seven go from space ranger to starship XO? Was Starfleet just testing her to see if she's Captain material? I mean, according to VOY, she's likely the smartest human in the galaxy as of the late 23rd century, rolling into the 24th. Speaking of which, where was her "Borg expertise" in S2 and S3?

That's enough for now. haha

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm also someone who likes all three seasons. For different reasons. I like S1 and S3 almost equally. There were a couple of things in S1 that bugged me just enough to knock it down a notch below S3. I like S2 for what it is: a romp in an Alternate Reality, then the rest of it is in the 21st Century.

How I break down PIC:

Season 1: "This isn't a TNG Reunion!"
Season 3: "Yes it is!"
Season 2: "I'm just going to hang out in 2024... "

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I'm also someone who likes all three seasons. For different reasons. I like S1 and S3 almost equally. There were a couple of things in S1 that bugged me just enough to knock it down a notch below S3. I like S2 for what it is: a romp in an Alternate Reality, then the rest of it is in the 21st Century.

How I break down PIC:

Season 1: "This isn't a TNG Reunion!"
Season 3: "Yes it is!"
Season 2: "I'm just going to hang out in 2024... "

You're not wrong.

 

[Lord Garth]

The most ironic thing about Season 2 is that if CBS were to have aired Picard, it's the season that would've fit in the best on their line-up, with so much of it taking place in the 21st Century. It's the most "normie" of the seasons.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The most ironic thing about Season 2 is that if CBS were to have aired Picard, it's the season that would've fit in the best on their line-up, with so much of it taking place in the 21st Century. It's the most "normie" of the seasons.

S2 = CSI: Picard
That's my nickname for the 2nd season.

 

[Sim]

I love this show, but I feel it has a bit of an identity crisis. It feels more like a trilogy of miniseries rather than a 3-season show. S2 doesn't build on S1, and S3 doesn't build on S2 nor much from S1. I loved S1 and S3, for me, equally entertaining. I like to call S2 the WTF season regarding plot, but the actors and characters make it work. Regarding S2, I remember being really annoyed and Raffi and Seven talking about how the world had gone to hell because of a few bad days in LA in 2024. Just a little judgmental, ya know? I think the dialogue would have worked better if they talked about how things were only going to get worse with WW3 some 20-30 years down the road. I think that might have been heavier and resonated better with the audience.

Depending on who you ask, there seems to be hate for S1-2 and love for S3. I like all 3, but with some WTF toward S2. I'm in the minority in that while S3 is awesome, I see it as equal to S1, not better. I also hated that the S1-2 cast was effectively dumped for S3.

Picard's Season 3 Cast
Picard: Obviously, he'll be back, this is his own show. Seven and Raffi: They'd been part of S1-2, so it made sense to return for S3. Bringing back the TNG cast for the final season made sense. I really enjoyed Soji, Rios, Agnes, Elnor, Laris, and Tallin. It really bothered me that they all basically got dumped for S3. Like Q, the Borg Queen, and Guinan, Tallin was meant to be a S2 only character, so I can work with that. Rios and Agnes both got a sendoff of sorts, so I can work with that. Dahj died, Sutra was mostly background, and Kore ran off with Wesley. Isa Briones got to be central to the cast for 2 seasons, then just... forgotten? It would have nice for Soji to have stuck around and met Data. I'd have been fine with 1 episode. Elnor, literally put on a bus... I mean starship.. and forgotten in S3. Come on. He was one of the best parts of S1! Finally, we come to Laris. She's in the opening 2-3 episodes of S1 and bookended S2, if I remember right. Where was Laris in the S3 finale? I get she's not part of the main plot, but seriously, why not feature her in the finale? Who did Picard hook up with? The man's gonna be dead of old age soon, it's now or never, Picard! Laris, Beverly, pick one, and be happy!

I do love the 10-hour saga that was Season 3. My objections are mostly in S1-2 characters being dropped out, and really, just that. Would it really have bankrupted the studio to give us a few cameos from Soji, Elnor, and Laris to show they're still part of Picard's life? (sigh)

We'll I'm ranting about S3, what thing I did not understand about the Stargazer and the Titan-A. The Stargazer, clearly a new starship, but some of the dialogue suggests it's a refit. Writer's goof? The Titan-A, the dialogue gets more confusing. Is it a new ship or a refit of Riker's ship, something not possible? Did Riker command the Titan-A before the new guy who's name I forget? Why else would he have to scrub Riker's jazz music from the computer? Dialogue suggests the ship is 5 years old, it's been 2 years since S1, and I'm pretty sure Riker'd been retired for more than 3 years when we see him in S1. S1 is 2399, S2 is 2401, S3 is also 2401. I can buy it's just a few months after the S2 finale, but... how did Seven go from space ranger to starship XO? Was Starfleet just testing her to see if she's Captain material? I mean, according to VOY, she's likely the smartest human in the galaxy as of the late 23rd century, rolling into the 24th. Speaking of which, where was her "Borg expertise" in S2 and S3?

That's enough for now. haha

Good observations!

I'm pretty much on board with your ranking of the seasons. My worst complaint about the entire series is the imo often irratic storytelling/arc construction, that throws in zillions of good ideas but fails to follow them as they'd deserve, misses many opportunities and generally often feels not well structured -- this is much moreso in S2 than in S1 and S3, but in those seasons too, I can't say the arcs are their strong side.

But as you say, it's the characters and the dialogues that make it work. The series may fail to be more than the sum of its parts, but many parts are really great and a lot of fun, so the show is enjoyable on the bottom line.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Good observations!

I'm pretty much on board with your ranking of the seasons. My worst complaint about the entire series is the imo often irratic storytelling/arc construction, that throws in zillions of good ideas but fails to follow them as they'd deserve, misses many opportunities and generally often feels not well structured -- this is much moreso in S2 than in S1 and S3, but in those seasons too, I can't say the arcs are their strong side.

But as you say, it's the characters and the dialogues that make it work. The series may fail to be more than the sum of its parts, but many parts are really great and a lot of fun, so the show is enjoyable on the bottom line.

Thank you. Do you know what my favorite scene of the series is? Soji's building the AI apocalypse beacon, Picard's trying to talk her out of it, she builds faster, and Picard tells her, "I'd like to offer you... a gift. My life. Picard out." On this little rickety two-deck cargo transport (La Sirena), Picard and Agnes (the only ones onboard) are ready to take on a Romulan fleet of what was it, 250 ships? All while he knows he is actively dying, knowing he will not see tomorrow. THAT is STAR TREK at it's core!

 

[Sim]

Thank you. Do you know what my favorite scene of the series is? Soji's building the AI apocalypse beacon, Picard's trying to talk her out of it, she builds faster, and Picard tells her, "I'd like to offer you... a gift. My life. Picard out." On this little rickety two-deck cargo transport (La Sirena), Picard and Agnes (the only ones onboard) are ready to take on a Romulan fleet of what was it, 250 ships? All while he knows he is actively dying, knowing he will not see tomorrow. THAT is STAR TREK at it's core!

Definitely a very chilling moment!

Also, I can't thank PIC enough for giving the TNG crew a proper ending. For more than 20 years, the disaster of NEM was the last thing we had seen of the TNG crew, and I found this ending tragically unsatisfying.

And although PIC S3 is far from perfect, it did this one thing right: It gave them a wonderful, moving send-off.

 

[Tosk]

And although PIC S3 is far from perfect, it did this one thing right: It gave them a wonderful, moving send-off.

Although it just happens to be the same one that TNG already did.

 

[Sim]

Although it just happens to be the same one that TNG already did.

I don't mean just the last scene, but all their interaction in that season. But ... yeah, TNG had a good ending. It's just that four more movies followed.

 

[Mage]

Although it just happens to be the same one that TNG already did.

Sure, but as Sim pointed out, Nemesis left things feeling..... weird. I don't care if it's a redo, it feels more proper than Nemesis.
Having said that, even though AGT was and still is awesome, it never felt like a real ending/goodbye. They were basically already making Generations at the time. This feels more final. For the whole crew, that is.
I have no doubt they'll try and get atleast one of the actors back. Michael Dorn recently said in a podcast they have been trying to get him back since Discovery.

 

[Mage]

We'll I'm ranting about S3, what thing I did not understand about the Stargazer and the Titan-A. The Stargazer, clearly a new starship, but some of the dialogue suggests it's a refit. Writer's goof? The Titan-A, the dialogue gets more confusing. Is it a new ship or a refit of Riker's ship, something not possible? Did Riker command the Titan-A before the new guy who's name I forget? Why else would he have to scrub Riker's jazz music from the computer? Dialogue suggests the ship is 5 years old, it's been 2 years since S1, and I'm pretty sure Riker'd been retired for more than 3 years when we see him in S1. S1 is 2399, S2 is 2401, S3 is also 2401. I can buy it's just a few months after the S2 finale, but... how did Seven go from space ranger to starship XO? Was Starfleet just testing her to see if she's Captain material? I mean, according to VOY, she's likely the smartest human in the galaxy as of the late 23rd century, rolling into the 24th. Speaking of which, where was her "Borg expertise" in S2 and S3?

The idea behind the Titan-A, and there was some production art made for this, was that something happened to the Titan that left the Luna class ship in shambles. A new ship was build, the Neo-Constitution which had many complete parts and raw material of the old Titan in it. Hence, the Titan-A but also refit.
It really makes no sense, because that's not a refit. I just go with it because I really friggin love the Neo-Constitution class. But that's apparently why there was still jazz music in the computers. Because it's the old computer core from Riker's Titan.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's funny how the two things mentioned in dialogue as being left over from the old ship are the computer core and warp systems, i.e. the things that you'd expect to get upgraded.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Definitely a very chilling moment!

Also, I can't thank PIC enough for giving the TNG crew a proper ending. For more than 20 years, the disaster of NEM was the last thing we had seen of the TNG crew, and I found this ending tragically unsatisfying.

And although PIC S3 is far from perfect, it did this one thing right: It gave them a wonderful, moving send-off.

Agreed. Nemesis was an OK film, but it's clear it was not intended to be the TNG finale film, there were so many reports that it was supposed to lead into a 5th film that would be TNG's TUC. Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to put NEM up against TLOTR and Harry Potter?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The idea behind the Titan-A, and there was some production art made for this, was that something happened to the Titan that left the Luna class ship in shambles. A new ship was build, the Neo-Constitution which had many complete parts and raw material of the old Titan in it. Hence, the Titan-A but also refit.
It really makes no sense, because that's not a refit. I just go with it because I really friggin love the Neo-Constitution class. But that's apparently why there was still jazz music in the computers. Because it's the old computer core from Riker's Titan.

I'm gonna be honest, this is where Matalas did not do homework and has absolutely no idea what what "new ship" and "ship refit" mean. It cannot be both, it's one or the other. Think about it. You have two ships of completely different designs. You don't harvest parts from ship A that are simply NOT designed to work in ship B. Just say the Titan-A is a 5-year-old ship, and say Riker briefly came out of retirement for a few months to see the new Titan-A off as a PR thing before handing it off to its Captain Shaw. There, now you can keep all the quippy dialogue.

 

[Sim]

Agreed. Nemesis was an OK film, but it's clear it was not intended to be the TNG finale film, there were so many reports that it was supposed to lead into a 5th film that would be TNG's TUC. Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to put NEM up against TLOTR and Harry Potter?

NEM didn't work for me on different levels... the biggest issue being that I didn't believe for a moment that Tom Hardy's character was a Picard clone. He's a good actor, but absolutely nothing about him was remotely similar to Stewart, imo. *If* they have to show a Picard clone, Stewart should play him, too.

Also, the revenge topic once again was just old, it tried too much to reinvent TWOK, and there were too many pointless action scenes, like that space buggy ride. Also, Baird cut out some of the best scenes, like the long talk between Picard and Data, or Riker's farewell.

Probably the worst of all 10 pre-2009 movies, imo.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

NEM didn't work for me on different levels... the biggest issue being that I didn't believe for a moment that Tom Hardy's character was a Picard clone. He's a good actor, but absolutely nothing about him was remotely similar to Stewart, imo. *If* they have to show a Picard clone, Stewart should play him, too.

Also, the revenge topic once again was just old, it tried too much to reinvent TWOK, and there were too many pointless action scenes, like that space buggy ride. Also, Baird cut out some of the best scenes, like the long talk between Picard and Data, or Riker's farewell.

Probably the worst of all 10 pre-2009 movies, imo.

I actually loved Hardy as a young-Picard clone, BUT, I think it would have worked better as a long-lost Picard son. When Picard kills him at the end and just freezes up until Data storms in, that would have made more sense had he just killed his only new-found son. The script could also have been reworked to show Picard more desperate in negotiations and far more vulnerable when confiding in Troi and Crusher. Crusher being a mom could have had more to do in the film in trying to help Picard deal with this, perhaps even Worf and Data too, Worf being a father, Data having been a father for about a week.

I didn't mind the revenge thing, it's a reasonable motive for a lot of people. However, I do agree that the film tried too hard to be TNG's TWOK. Why does every ST movie have to copy TWOK? By the time NEM came out in 2002, TWOF was a 20-year-old movie. Why can't NEM just be something new? Whether Picard-clone or Picard-son, it should have been about a man created or taken in by the Romulans, discarded to the Remans, rose to power, proved himself in the Dominion War, and now is effectively taken over Romulus. Rather than make friends with Earth and the Federation, he wants to prove the Romulan people as a galactic power, make the Klingons look like crying kittens by comparison. He should have been out for galactic power, not "revenge." He didn't need to be out to Destroy the Federation, give him more specific goals. Say he's out to use his radiation weapon to destroy the 4 worlds that created the Federation: Earth, Vulcan, Andor, and the Tellerite world. That's a big enough threat as it is.

I get that Baird felt he needed to trim the movie down to 2 hours and some stuff was going to get cut out, but he didn't need to cut as much as he did. At the very least, he could have circled back and simply did a "Special Edition" for home video and simply restored the deleted scenes. Didn't have to be a Director's Cut, just a "longer home video cut" or whatever.

I love the space buggy scene. Don't phaser me.

 

[Roald]

I think all of PIC is very underrated, especially S1 and S2. I think they are a lot more meaningful, layered and profound than most people realise.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I think all of PIC is very underrated, especially S1 and S2. I think they are a lot more meaningful, layered and profound than most people realise.

What do you think of synth-Picard? I was hoping this would be explored later on. Is Picard dead, and is this Picard 2.0? Is this just original Picard "transferred" into a synth body? This was never dived into, but it should have. Everyone's just like, "Oh, you died, and you're a robot now? Cool, let's play cards."

 

[Mage]

Why does every ST movie have to copy TWOK?

I'll say it flat out, and have in the past, but TWOK is not the best Star Trek movie in my opinion. It's a good movie, but just an action movie with a revenge plot, that happens to be in the ST universe.