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Ron Moore Pilot "17th Precinct" online

Looks like the force isn't that strong with RDM any more... That's his second rejected pilot since Caprica (the first one was "Virtuality").
 
I made it a minute and thirty-five seconds before turning it off. :lol:
 
And it's too bad about Virtuality. I've the DVD and I thought it was very good, had real series potential.

I'll be picking up this one on DVD when it is eventually released.
 
Pilots by big name writers get rejected all the time, it's very normal.
The only one I can think of right now is David E. Kelley's Wonder Woman... Know of any other good examples?

BTW, about RDM losing his mojo and stuff... The fact does remain that all three of his post-BSG projects crashed and burned.

And personally, I find BSG season four and TV movie "The Plan" to be utter shit too.
 
I just finished it. It's biggest problem, and what probably chased away the networks, it that to maintain the level of special effects to make this world look viable would take a huge budget. And I don't see general audiences flocking to this series. The world portrayed is too alien from our own.

And this world's "terrorists" are people who want to make this world like our own.

As much as I saw the potential in this pilot they were definitely right in not picking it up. It would fit in with the type of series showing up on Syfy, but I don't think they could afford it either.
 
I couldn't watch it, I love SCI FI but this was too much and all the BSG actors put me off just because it seemed he used everyone bar Adama/Roslin.
 
I just finished it. It's biggest problem, and what probably chased away the networks, it that to maintain the level of special effects to make this world look viable would take a huge budget.

That's probably true. They would've had to dial back on the exteriors and street scenes a lot, although some shows do just that as they go on -- spend a lot on the scenery FX up front to establish the world, then cut down on them as the season goes on and spend more time indoors once it's established well enough that the audience can take it as read (I think Caprica pretty much did that). Still, you've also got all these routine FX like the big flame and the Stream terminals in the squad room. And when they did do exteriors, they'd have had to make sure to remove all the background cars' steering wheels either on set or digitally, and probably any radio antennae as well.


And I don't see general audiences flocking to this series. The world portrayed is too alien from our own.

Whereas my problem with it was that it wasn't alien enough. Despite supposedly having this profoundly different foundation and history, it looked and worked almost entirely like our world aside from some surface trappings. They still had cars, they had the equivalent of guns and cell phones and the Internet, they had the same kind of "device"-based civilization that we have with a ubiquitous means of delivering power to those devices; it's just that the details were substituted with other details. The only thing they were missing was television (as far as we saw), but most characters on TV don't generally watch much TV anyway, so that wasn't too great a change from normal cop dramas. So the alienness was ultimately superficial. It was clever as far as it went, but it didn't go far enough. Although of course it would've been impossibly expensive to develop the concept more fully.

And I don't buy the "science and technology don't exist" premise. They obviously have science -- a science of magic, a science of forensics, a science of bioengineering, etc. They have the ability to engineer the "power plants" to give them the different effects they want -- that's technology, never mind that it's organically based. Technology doesn't mean metal and electricity, it means any practical application of knowledge to influence the physical world for human benefit. And the cops apply the same kind of analytical tools to their evidence that they would in our world, observation and deduction based on details and known patterns. That's scientific thinking. Science isn't a specific set of rules, it's the process of figuring out how the world works, of gathering evidence and drawing conclusions and predictions from it. And that's unquestionably what they were doing when they analyzed the "blood evidence" and the emanations from the sound-masking spell. So the underlying premise doesn't really make sense. This world isn't devoid of science and technology, it's just built its science and technology around a different set of physical laws.

Too bad, though, because I liked the idea of it, of an urban-fantasy cop show in an alternate world where magic ruled. It reminded me of Diane Duane's novel Stealing the Elf-King's Roses, which also had a strong magic-cop-procedural element, as well as Dragon Precinct and its sequels by the TrekBBS's own Keith R. A. DeCandido (though those are set in a more traditionally preindustrial fantasy world). And the cast was pretty good, though Esai Morales's interpretation of a woman-turned-man came off as a campy stereotype.
 
I would have been happy if Piller never hired this guy to begin with. No big loss - just a big ego (ass). Moore or less.
 
Hmmm...while the premise explanation needed tweaking, I would have liked to see this show and what it could have delivered. It was funny seeing so many BSG actors in one place (and so quickly) in the first few minutes. For a moment, it felt like one of those "characters find themselves in a universe that's not quite right and must get back to their own world" stories. :)
 
It was funny seeing so many BSG actors in one place (and so quickly) in the first few minutes. For a moment, it felt like one of those "characters find themselves in a universe that's not quite right and must get back to their own world" stories. :)

I guess I've seen them in enough other roles in the interim that I don't get that same association. In particular, Jamie Bamber's just come off a two-and-a-half-year run as the junior detective in Law & Order: UK, so seeing him in the identical role here (albeit with magical powers and a mostly American accent) felt pretty natural.
 
Finally got around to watching this.

It starts rather blandly, but it improves as it goes along. And it is certainly more ambitious and interesting than almost any network show currently.

The comment about the world not being different enough from our own is quite accurate(although expected given TV budgets and sensibilities). Plus, if given time, the show would have had to establish a system of how the magic actually worked. In the pilot we are shown that magic can apparently change a person's age, and gender. Just those two things would completely change two of the linchpins that culture is built on. Immortality? The rich living forever? Gender being a temporary thing? Those are huge things that the show just tossed out as clever little winks and nudges.

I don't think the budget is the main reason it did not get picked up. Always a factor of course, but the show would not have been prohibitively expensive, especially since magical special effects can get away with being less realistic than your run of the mill effects that depict things we already recognize.

I think that the suits at NBC recognized that it was going to have a rough time finding an audience due to its hybrid nature, and that it would be rather too high concept to keep a large audience. Just the pilot alone showcases the structural problems it would face as a show. Presumably every week you would have a crime or murder, giving the show its procedural trappings. Underneath that you would have the action/adventure stuff. And underneath that would be the social commentary on science, religion, culture, sex, etc that I think were what really drew Ron Moore to the project in the first place.

Whichever side the show played up would alienate part of the audience.
 
I wanted to give it a fair shake so I held on for the first 11 minutes. Fun seeing familiar faces, but I dunno...for everything in San Francisco to look so ordinary (just with more vines) detracts from the feeling that this is truly a different, magical world. Nobody is acting very differently from the regular world. The cop show tropes do nothing for me, because that genre doesn't interest me.

NBC picked up Grimm instead of this - another sf/f-cop show hybrid - and honestly, they probably could have gotten about the same (low) ratings as they did with Grimm, which is hardly an inspiring show either. (But probably will be picked up for a full season because NBC's standards are low, especially for Fri nights.)

Grimm
does, however, have Silas Michael Weir playing the (or a) Big Bad Wolf in a way that convinced me that he is indeed a "magical" creature, with different history, rules and ways of thinking, who is trying to hide himself in the normal world. None of the characters here seem like people who operate on fundamentally different rules than we're used to. They just use different words. And Grimm has humor, which helps a lot.

Another show to compare this to is Once Upon a Time, which has been a pretty decent hit for ABC. That show doesn't bother wrapping everything around cop show elements. It just forges ahead with its own plotline and trusts the audience to keep up. There are many characters that with varying degrees of subtlety behave like magical characters (in this case, most of them don't realize they're magical because they've got amnesia, but their alienness still leaks through).

I don't know what the moral in all this is, other than, if you're going to do an sf/f show, have the courage of your convictions and don't try to palm it off as another genre entirely.

Or just put your show on cable. Anywhere but SyFy seems to be a promising environment for sf/f nowadays.
 
I admit the pilot had some rough edges like the special effects. But, overall, I thought it was good and made wish there was more of the series past the pilot. I like the characters, especially the captain of the precinct who I was happy to see played by the man well known for his portrayal of Kareem Said in Oz. I thought the twist involving the case of the dead prophet was interesting as well as the reveal of the Stoics' agenda. I like the idea of a science vs. magic conflict and I think both sides (those who use magic and the Stoics) can produce compelling arguments for their positions. It makes me wonder what would have happened next between the two sides.
 
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