Question about the TNG DVDs

[Ray Hardgrit]

Shiny! I don't think I've seen a set that looks like that before.

I started getting TNG DVDs long after I put my CRT screen away, but I got it out and tried playing a few episodes yesterday for the first time and I was surprised by how good they look. Even the early seasons aren't that bad. Also, I ended up with a headache afterwards. Not sure if the two things are related.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Shiny! I don't think I've seen a set that looks like that before.

I started getting TNG DVDs long after I put my CRT screen away, but I got it out and tried playing a few episodes yesterday for the first time and I was surprised by how good they look. Even the early seasons aren't that bad. Also, I ended up with a headache afterwards. Not sure if the two things are related.

I think that SD content looks best on a CRT.

You mentioned earlier that you have region 2 discs. Are they PAL? If you're in PAL territory you have a 50 Hz refresh rate, and I can see how that would be headache-inducing if you're not, or no longer, used to it.

Mine are region 1, NTSC, which is a 60 Hz refresh rate (technically 59.94 Hz ever since the color version of the NTSC standard came along), and even that takes me some time to get used to again if I haven't watched anything on a standard-resolution CRT for a long time, because with the CRT PC monitor that I use everyday with my PC, I have it set to a 75 Hz refresh rate.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yeah, they're PAL discs. The TV's modern enough that I can play 60 Hz stuff on it too, but aside from my Region 1 Stargate Atlantis box set my DVD shelves have nothing that'll make use of that.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Even the early seasons aren't that bad.

It just occurred to me that if the early seasons look worse than the later seasons (it will be a while before I watch all these DVDs I got today to see for myself), then they were probably mastered to Betacam rather than Betacam SP. The latter wasn't released until 1987, the same year that TNG premiered, so they probably weren't using it yet during the first season at least.

At about 300 TVL, Betacam (released in 1982) was "near broadcast quality," while Betacam SP was considered "full broadcast quality" at about 330-340 TVL.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Here's what season 1 looks like, captured right from the video file.

And this is season 7.

I can definitely spot a difference in clarity, but the colour is also much better on the later episode. It's almost like I'm comparing the SD version to the remastered release.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Here's what season 1 looks like, captured right from the video file.

And this is season 7.

I can definitely spot a difference in clarity, but the colour is also much better on the later episode. It's almost like I'm comparing the SD version to the remastered release.

Thanks for posting the comparison, and yeah, that's a big difference. What are the episode titles and timestamps of those two screenshots? I'd like to see how your PAL versions compare to my NTSC versions.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm sure you know PAL episodes run shorter, but I think these times will get you close enough.

Screen 1: 1x01 Encounter at Farpoint - 1:25:48
Screen 2: 7x12 The Pegasus - 0:07:23

 

[MaximRecoil]

I'm sure you know PAL episodes run shorter, but I think these times will get you close enough.

Screen 1: 1x01 Encounter at Farpoint - 1:25:48
Screen 2: 7x12 The Pegasus - 0:07:23

Thanks:

The colors look slightly different, and the cropping is slightly different too, but otherwise they look pretty much the same.

My screenshots look like they're in the wrong aspect ratio (horizontally stretched) because they are raw screenshots. DVD's resolution is 720 x 480 which is a 1.5:1 aspect ratio if viewed with square (1:1) pixels, and computers use square pixels by default. When a DVD is played on a DVD player or a software media player on a PC, a ~0.89:1 pixel aspect ratio is applied, giving a 1.33:1 (4:3) display aspect ratio.

Your screenshot are 768 x 576, which is the correct 1.33:1 DAR when displayed with square pixels, so your media player software generates screenshots of what you see when playing the DVD, rather than raw screenshots, which for PAL, is 720 x 576. It doesn't matter either way; your screenshots are perfectly fine. I just wanted to point out why your screenshots appear to be in the correct aspect ratio and mine don't, in case anyone was wondering.

I just started watching an episode (s01e05: "The Last Outpost;" unfortunately I already watched the three episodes before that one on my bootleg DVD before I knew it was a bootleg) from my legitimate DVDs on my 32" CRT TV and it looks surprisingly good; way better than anyone would expect from looking at screenshots on a computer. It's nice to know that they will look even better as they go along too. It was definitely worth buying these legitimate DVDs instead of settling for the bootlegs.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I can imagine some people would question why you'd bother doing this when the Blu-rays are much higher resolution, but having seen the result for myself I get it. And I'm glad that you can see a noticeable improvement in the proper discs, as it would've been a bit of a shame after all that effort if they weren't much better.

 

[MaximRecoil]

I can imagine some people would question why you'd bother doing this when the Blu-rays are much higher resolution, but having seen the result for myself I get it.

Yeah, I love watching old TV shows (from the 4:3 era) on a CRT TV the way I watched them when they originally aired. I think they look great, and it adds to the nostalgia for me. I use that same 32" CRT TV for playing classic video games too, mostly Atari 2600, NES, and SNES.

I like watching things the way they were originally intended to be seen, or as close to it as I can realistically get, so when it comes to Hollywood movies, I stick with Blu-rays and watch them on a 1080p DLP projector, which approximates the resolution of a 35mm release print (35mm camera negatives can resolve to around 4K, but the release prints shown in theaters had several generations of loss compared to those). Since all my favorite movies are pretty old now, they were all shot on 35mm film and originally shown on film projectors in theaters. Owning a 35mm film projector and collecting gray-market 35mm release prints is for rich people, not for me, but I'm happy with the results of Blu-rays, my projector, and a 100" screen in my living room. The essence is still there, i.e., a projected image like in a theater; reflected light rather than looking at a light source as you do with a direct-view display.

I'm having a blast with these TNG DVDs. I haven't watched TNG since its original run (which started when I was 12 years old), and I'd forgotten how good some of the episodes are. We only got perfect reception on channel 5, and unfortunately, TNG (and TOS reruns too) aired on channel 7, which we only got about 90% reception on at best, and usually more like 75%, so watching these on DVD gives me the perfect reception I wished for when I was a kid.

 

[Gaith]

I think that SD content looks best on a CRT.

Minor objection: for just the reasons you wrote above, everything, even SD stuff, looks best projected. I've been watching some Voyager DVDs projected recently, and they look great - sure, they're not as sharp as HD streaming or Blus, but any loss in vividness from not displaying on a CRT is offset by the inherent magic of reflected light.

But aye, SD looks better on CRT than on LCD or plasma screens.

 

[Sim]

Yeah, I love watching old TV shows (from the 4:3 era) on a CRT TV the way I watched them when they originally aired. I think they look great, and it adds to the nostalgia for me. I use that same 32" CRT TV for playing classic video games too, mostly Atari 2600, NES, and SNES.

I like watching things the way they were originally intended to be seen, or as close to it as I can realistically get, so when it comes to Hollywood movies, I stick with Blu-rays and watch them on a 1080p DLP projector, which approximates the resolution of a 35mm release print (35mm camera negatives can resolve to around 4K, but the release prints shown in theaters had several generations of loss compared to those). Since all my favorite movies are pretty old now, they were all shot on 35mm film and originally shown on film projectors in theaters. Owning a 35mm film projector and collecting gray-market 35mm release prints is for rich people, not for me, but I'm happy with the results of Blu-rays, my projector, and a 100" screen in my living room. The essence is still there, i.e., a projected image like in a theater; reflected light rather than looking at a light source as you do with a direct-view display.

I'm having a blast with these TNG DVDs. I haven't watched TNG since its original run (which started when I was 12 years old), and I'd forgotten how good some of the episodes are. We only got perfect reception on channel 5, and unfortunately, TNG (and TOS reruns too) aired on channel 7, which we only got about 90% reception on at best, and usually more like 75%, so watching these on DVD gives me the perfect reception I wished for when I was a kid.

At home, I usually watch even older SD and/or 4:3 content via BD player (from DVD or Blu Ray when available) on a 16:9 flatscreen, but in my old room in my parent's home, I still got a VCR and a couple of my old VHS recordings from the 90s.

Sometimes, I just love to pop in an old off-air VHS when I'm there (like X-Files in 4:3, taken from below 100% analog reception, with ad breaks, channel logo and so on), for nostalgia ... although I got the 16:9 1080p Blu Rays at home.

Most of my DVDs are region 2 "PAL" releases with a 50 Hz refresh rate, but I also got a handful of 60 Hz imports (like the mentioned "Hill Street Blues" or the original 1963 "The Outer Limits"). The 1985 remake of "The Twilight Zone" also got a Germany release by a minor label specialized on niche shows (they even restored the German audio track from private VHS off-air recordings, because the broadcast copies were lost -- they also did that with some classic Doctor Who episodes for the German release), and although the release is region 2, they maintained the 480p 60 Hz format. They wrote in the booklet they did so in order to avoid additional quality loss due to a PAL conversion.

The change between 50Hz and 60Hz doesn't bother me, I think I don't really notice it. But occasionally, I came across flawed conversions, when apparently, they converted 60Hz material down to 50Hz without adjusting the run time, resulting in a stuttering image (in the German "Six Feet Under" DVD release i.e.). This annoys the hell out of me.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Minor objection: for just the reasons you wrote above, everything, even SD stuff, looks best projected. I've been watching some Voyager DVDs projected recently, and they look great - sure, they're not as sharp as HD streaming or Blus, but any loss in vividness from not displaying on a CRT is offset by the inherent magic of reflected light.

But aye, SD looks better on CRT than on LCD or plasma screens.

I love the look of a projected image. It's a more natural look than a direct-view display because everything we see in real life is reflected light, except when looking directly at e.g., a candle flame or other light source. But for me, regarding what I think looks best, how something was originally meant to be seen is part of the equation too, which is why I prefer a CRT for NTSC era TV shows. The only TV shows I buy on DVD are old ones (pre-21st century) that I watched when they originally aired or in syndicated reruns, so when watching them on a CRT, I'm not only seeing them the way they were originally meant to be seen, but also the way I originally saw them, and that adds a lot to the nostalgia factor for me.

Also, in the case of low-quality SD content, such as from a VHS tape, CRTs can make them look pretty good, whereas on my 1080p projector, it would make the low quality extremely apparent.

At home, I usually watch even older SD and/or 4:3 content via BD player (from DVD or Blu Ray when available) on a 16:9 flatscreen, but in my old room in my parent's home, I still got a VCR and a couple of my old VHS recordings from the 90s.

Sometimes, I just love to pop in an old off-air VHS when I'm there (like X-Files in 4:3, taken from below 100% analog reception, with ad breaks, channel logo and so on), for nostalgia ... although I got the 16:9 1080p Blu Rays at home.

In my bedroom I have the 19" Sears brand (manufactured by Goldstar/LG) CRT TV that was our family TV starting in late 1988 (when I was almost 14). I took it with me when I moved out of the house and used it until 2005 when I bought my 32" CRT TV, and it sat in storage until about a year and a half ago when I got the urge to see if it still works. When I turned it on it immediately blew an internal fuse. I replaced all of the electrolytic capacitors on the chassis, and resoldered the bigger solder joints such as for the flyback transformer and yoke connector, and various other things, and eventually got it working again.

I also have the GE VCR (made by Panasonic) that we got at the same time as that TV. I had to replace all of the electrolytic capacitors in its power supply and clean the heads, but that's working perfectly now too. I have a box of VHS tapes that are fun to watch on that very familiar (to me) TV and VCR combination. Some of the tapes are official VHS releases and others have stuff recorded over-the-air decades ago, complete with commercials and less than perfect reception. There's even a movie in there that I dubbed from a rental tape (using 2 VCRs) back in the late 1980s or early 1990s:

I watched that tape dozens of times when I was a kid. Now I own it on Blu-ray and normally watch it on my projector, but it was still fun watching that tape recently on my old Sears TV / GE VCR.