Putting a Planet in a warp bubble

[Will_Carter]

Doesn't have to be inhabited. Just 'gravitational rounded body in a stable orbit that has cleared its orbital lane of major debris' kind of affair.

Let's slap down enough generators and warp coils to engulf the thing.

What Happens?

What happens if someone were to try forcing a ship to go to warp while within a substantial gravity well? IE it's parked on or within the atmosphere of a planet.

What happens?

My core assumption for the former is 'not a lot since while a warp field is generated there isn't a guided propulsion happening so it is still acting according to inertial forces and the conditions of local subspace.'

As for the latter.... I assume Bad Things,

Can someone smarter than me chime in? I'm just the guy that replaces blown relays and keeps the deck clean.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Doesn't have to be inhabited. Just 'gravitational rounded body in a stable orbit that has cleared its orbital lane of major debris' kind of affair.

Let's slap down enough generators and warp coils to engulf the thing.

What Happens?

You probably don't need to put it on the surface of the planet, in fact, it might be better if you didn't put it on the surface. Just so the Warp Bubble's Field doesn't shear off any solid mass on the Planet or chop off part of the Atmosphere.

Just place the Warp Field Generators in a close Lower Planetary Orbit would be fine, and you would need a LARGE Constellation of Satllites, think more than SpaceX's StarLink
But they would be FAR larger Satllites than what SpaceX's StarLink has right now with over 12,000+ Reactors + Warp Coils necessary to cover a planet that is "Earth Sized".
Depending on how wide the Warp Field can spread, you might need even more Reactors, probably 34,400+ like StarLink if the Warp Field area coverage isn't large enough.

But this is one of those crazy projects that would require a Planetary Nation State to fund since all those Reactors + Warp Coils could've easily been repurposed to make a StarFleet with that many ships.

What happens if someone were to try forcing a ship to go to warp while within a substantial gravity well? IE it's parked on or within the atmosphere of a planet.

What happens?

They did that in "Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home". Kirk ordered Sulu to go to Warp within the Bird of Prey they stole.

I'd assume the Warp Bubble would steal a chunk of the Atmosphere's air and drag it with the ship until it stops some-where in space, ergo, releasing all the Atmospheric Air into space to dissipate.

A few ships doing this isn't going to make a difference, but a lot of ships doing this will drain the Atmosphere of it's Air molecules unnecessarily.

Earth's Atmosphere naturally leaks some amount of air, but we don't need to accelerate it by having FTL ships drag chunks of Atmosphere away from the planet.

For each Planet's Atmosphere, it's probably best to leave your ship in space and never use the Warp Drive while within a Planet's Atmosphere.

You don't want to steal the air inside the planet and take it away from said planet if you don't have to.

 

[Will_Carter]

They did that in "Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home".

D'oh! Forgot about that one.

 

[DonIago]

I still feel the BoP going to warp in Earth's atmosphere was dramatic license and isn't really meant to be interpreted that way.

Well, really I think it's TPTB being careless, but since it's an easy write-off, I write it off.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I still feel the BoP going to warp in Earth's atmosphere was dramatic license and isn't really meant to be interpreted that way.

Well, really I think it's TPTB being careless, but since it's an easy write-off, I write it off.

Regardless of careless-ness or not, it's done, in a BIG WAY, that's UN-DENIABLE.

And "Nothing Bad Happened".

When you think about it logically based on how Warp Drive is supposed to operate, I don't think anything bad will happen if you execute Warp Drive within the Atmosphere of a Planet, short of stealing some of the Planet's Atmosphere.

a few times here and there won't matter, but having ALOT of Shuttles or StarShips doing that repeatedly will become a problem for the environment of said planet.

Think of how many "Hundreds of Millions" of cars we have on Earth today.
Now imagine that with FTL shuttles, all doing that on a daily basis.
We'd lose LARGE volumes of our Atmosphere REALLY fast.
The best solution is to "SAY NO" to FTL drives operating within Atmosphere, short of Life/Death Emergencies for StarFleet usage.

Ergo, the "Environmental Protection Reasoning & Regulation" to only allow FTL vessels to operate their FTL drives outside the Atmosphere of a planet.

It may not be a "Exciting Reason", but it's logical.

 

[publiusr]

It might be better to modify a black hole or magnetar’s fields such that any planet orbiting it simply is along for the ride somehow. Remember Benford’s “Shipstar:”

A spider stellar engine could move binary stars halfway across a galaxy

Eventually, every stellar civilization will have to migrate to a different star. The habitable zone around all stars changes as they age. If long-lived technological civilizations are even plausible in our universe, migration will be necessary, eventually.

phys.org

The Spider Stellar Engine: a Fully Steerable Extraterrestrial Design?

A long-lived civilization will inevitably have to migrate towards a nearby star as its home star runs out of nuclear fuel. One way to achieve such a migration is by transforming its star into a stellar engine, and to control its motion in the galaxy. We first provide a brief overview of stellar...

arxiv.org

If no collapsar is available, you might want an array of ever-wider diameter ringships in front of its direction of movement and behind the body.

That would take some doing.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Doesn't have to be inhabited. Just 'gravitational rounded body in a stable orbit that has cleared its orbital lane of major debris' kind of affair.

Let's slap down enough generators and warp coils to engulf the thing.

What Happens?

What possible reason would there be to relocate a planet? The gravitational shifts would likely cause catastrophic effects on the planet that would cancel out any gains, and that's if this could be done at all. Think about how big warp engines are compared to the size of a starship. Now think about how big a planet is.

What happens if someone were to try forcing a ship to go to warp while within a substantial gravity well? IE it's parked on or within the atmosphere of a planet.

What happens?

Nothing, according to Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

 

[Will_Carter]

What possible reason would there be to relocate a planet?

1. Scientific curiosity.

2. 'Imagine being able to move a planet that has irreplaceable artifacts on it' or some other scenario.

3. I like to dream BIG. When I don't have visions of colonizing the literal sun, or making it snow on venus? I wanna turn an entire solar system into something that flies through a galaxy, gathering more stars as it goes until you have a Literal star fleet.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

1. Scientific curiosity.

2. 'Imagine being able to move a planet that has irreplaceable artifacts on it' or some other scenario.

3. I like to dream BIG. When I don't have visions of colonizing the literal sun, or making it snow on venus? I wanna turn an entire solar system into something that flies through a galaxy, gathering more stars as it goes until you have a Literal star fleet.

Spoiler: Isaac Arthur - Shkdov Thruster

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Just drag the entire Star System with you while you make a Shkdov Thruster and carefully calculate your merge with other nearby StarSystems.

Then build more Shkdov Thrusters along the other Star Systems and have them all flying together in formation.

Use the energy from the Star to turn the exit Aperture in a large "Impulse Exhaust" by borrowing aspects of modern Impulse Drives to accelerte the Star System to High Sub-Light speeds in short order.

 

[Will_Carter]

Just drag the entire Star System with you while you make a Shkdov Thruster and carefully calculate your merge with other nearby StarSystems.

Welcome to why I had the idea.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

2. 'Imagine being able to move a planet that has irreplaceable artifacts on it' or some other scenario.

It's all going to be destroyed from the drastic gravitational shifts from removing the star, moon/s, and gravitational effects from other planets, plus it's orbit and speed of orbit in relation to solar system bodies with large gravity tells, meaning the star, planets, moons, it all interacts. When dropped into it's new solar system, the drastic change from one solar system gravitational system to the new one will likely leave the planet's surface unrecognizable. Any and all artifacts and ruins will be destroyed.

3. I like to dream BIG. When I don't have visions of colonizing the literal sun, or making it snow on venus? I wanna turn an entire solar system into something that flies through a galaxy, gathering more stars as it goes until you have a Literal star fleet.

Scientifically, this isn't possible. It's equal to a single-cell organism trying to influence things on a humane scale.

 

[Will_Carter]

Scientifically, this isn't possible. It's equal to a single-cell organism trying to influence things on a humane scale.

Under known physics one would be terrified of what is allowable.

Spoiler: Isaac Arthur : Fleet of Stars

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[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Under known physics one would be terrified of what is allowable.

Spoiler: Isaac Arthur : Fleet of Stars

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Wouldn't moving a star like this just drag the entire solar system with it?

 

[Will_Carter]

Wouldn't moving a star like this just drag the entire solar system with it?

That would be a majority of the point. To take everything along for the ride.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

That would be a majority of the point. To take everything along for the ride.

The entire solar system won't all move at the same time, the gravitational tidal forces are likely to destroy the surface of all celestial bodies dragged along with the star. You'll still have planets and moons and space debris, but nothing on the surface will survive.

What gave you this idea anyway?

 

[Deks]

Spoiler: Isaac Arthur - Shkdov Thruster

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Just drag the entire Star System with you while you make a Shkdov Thruster and carefully calculate your merge with other nearby StarSystems.

Then build more Shkdov Thrusters along the other Star Systems and have them all flying together in formation.

Use the energy from the Star to turn the exit Aperture in a large "Impulse Exhaust" by borrowing aspects of modern Impulse Drives to accelerte the Star System to High Sub-Light speeds in short order.

A trinar shield engulfed the entire star system in LD by the Nova squadron fleet (Nick Locarno).
Since they can already do this, it should be possible to project a subspace field to drop the inertial mass of all planetary bodies to a low level, or just super-impose a low level subspace field on top of the trinar shield.

After that, all you need is sufficiently large amount of ships to tractor the thing at Warp to a new location - sufficiently large being 16.6 million Galaxy class ships if you're using 100,000x reduction factor.
A 1 million x reduction would reduce this to 1.6 million Galaxy class ships.

The ENT-D was able to barely move an asteroid using this method in TNG... granted the ship itself was projecting a subspace field, and the generators were NOT on the asteroidal moon.

If you just want to move a planet itself, and assuming a network of satellites can project subspace fields powerful enough to lower the planet's inertial mass by 100,000 x, you'd need 50 Galaxy class ships to move a planet.

So, all of this relies on how low you can drop the inertial mass of an object to actually move it).

Obviously, how powerful a ship is may also influence this.
Deja Q occurred in mid S3 of TNG (2366), and the Galaxy received various upgrades between then and 2381 (obviously - the next upgrade would have been with a new Warp core in S6, and possibly sometime shortly after the Sovereign was released into active service or just prior to the Dominion War).

If obviously a vessel's own power output matters (And it probably does), its possible the numbers would have reduced by about 4x in 15 years (possibly more).

 

[Will_Carter]

What gave you this idea anyway?

For a warp bubble that big? The Isaac Arthur video 'huh this guy is working under known physics. What can we do with Star Trek physics?'

I am not Isaac Arthur. I wish i were. Dude's president of the space society, a retired artillary-man, physicist, and a lifelong science outreach person.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Personally, I don't have a desire to move Star Systems that are attached to any existing Galaxy, just leave them alone.

There are plenty of "Rogue Planets" out there for you to colonize or take control.

There's "Rogue Stars" out there in between Galaxies for you to mess with.

There are "Rogue Black-Holes" that are Inter-Stellar and/or Inter-Galactic in nature.

Those are ones you can play with, no need to destroy the existing natural order when you can go find ones that are already "Free" of existing Gravitational Pull and have gone Rogue.

 

[blssdwlf]

Don't forget that in the original version of "The Motion Picture", V'Ger was generating an energy (gas?) cloud that was 82 AU in diameter and the whole thing was moving along at Warp speed to Earth. The Director's Edition downsized it to 2 AU in diameter, for whatever reasons . But the point is that in Star Trek you can have the power and technology to move something the size of a star system along at warp speed.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

A trinar shield engulfed the entire star system in LD by the Nova squadron fleet (Nick Locarno).
Since they can already do this, it should be possible to project a subspace field to drop the inertial mass of all planetary bodies to a low level, or just super-impose a low level subspace field on top of the trinar shield.

After that, all you need is sufficiently large amount of ships to tractor the thing at Warp to a new location - sufficiently large being 16.6 million Galaxy class ships if you're using 100,000x reduction factor.
A 1 million x reduction would reduce this to 1.6 million Galaxy class ships.

The ENT-D was able to barely move an asteroid using this method in TNG... granted the ship itself was projecting a subspace field, and the generators were NOT on the asteroidal moon.

If you just want to move a planet itself, and assuming a network of satellites can project subspace fields powerful enough to lower the planet's inertial mass by 100,000 x, you'd need 50 Galaxy class ships to move a planet.

So, all of this relies on how low you can drop the inertial mass of an object to actually move it).

You could try to do that to a Star System that is already in place and part of a Galaxy.

Or save yourself the trouble and gather up the "Rogue Stars", "Rogue Planets", & "Rogue Black Holes".

It'd be FAR easier to manipulate those objects that are already free from Galactic Level Gravity and are largely on their own trajectory.

Then you can pilot them to gather up all the fellow "Rogue Astronomical Phenomena" and form a Star System of your choosing.

There are ALOT more of these "Rogue Astronomical Objects" out there than most people think, and they are potential hazards for existing Star Systems in the distant future.

You'd be doing society a great service by gathering them up and taking control of them.