Picard's mother in TNG Traveller Episode

[F. King Daniel]

FANS: Continuity error! She didn't die, we see Picard imagine speaking to her as an old lady!

WRITERS: Now you little shits she hung herself it's all Picard's fault he unlocked her bedroom and what you saw in TNG was the coping mechanism of a desperate man!

FANS: Continuity error! She didn't die, we see Picard imagine speaking to her as an old lady!

 

[Therin of Andor]

But, is it realistic? When people do die young, is known for loved ones to later imagine, even hallucinate, them as older people?

Definitely. I had an aunt who suicided before I was born. The family legends around her, and her (unrealised) career aspirations, continue to influence my own life. It was actually many years before I realised she was only 17. Passing the age of 17 myself was very disconcerting but finally gave me a sense of perspective. But in my mind Aunty Elaine has always been an adult.

I was thrilled when the episode this week acknowledged that scene from TNG.

Waiting for someone to claim that the scene in "Hide and Seek" was refilmed to repair an error after fans pointed it out in the days following Season Two's premiere.

 

[Sci]

Picard in "Hide and Seek" explicitly says that he used to sometimes imagine what his mother would have been like as an old woman. That's what he saw in "Where No One Has Gone Before" -- a vision of his mother as an old woman, taken from his imagination. There is no conflict.

The line in "Hide and Seek" is also extremely moving. As I have written elsewhere on this forum, I lost my mother in August a week before her 60th birthday. I can confirm that I often have days where I imagine what she would have been like had she lived to her 70s and had the opportunity to become a grandmother. I completely related to Picard when he said he would imagine his mother as an old woman. And I think "Hide and Seek" adds a level of depth to that scene from "Where No One Has Gone Before" retroactively.

 

[Sci]

But, is it realistic? When people do die young, is known for loved ones to later imagine, even hallucinate, them as older people?

.... yes. It is extremely common. Do you have no experience with grief or with people who have grieved loved ones? It's honestly kind of upsetting that you could even imagine that that wouldn't be a common coping mechanism.

 

[PT109]

people do die young, is known for loved ones to later imagine, even hallucinate, them as older people?

My mother died young (of natural causes) and yes, I have dreamt of her at various ages - including ages she never lived. While awake, I do sometimes imagine how she would've interacted with the grandchildren she never met in life.

 

[Lord Exor]

Apparently it was me who made the oversight, I'll have to go back and rewatch the end of the episode. I don't think Season 2 has been terrible, despite the general consensus, I liked the flashbacks to Picard's youth and character development and I liked the integration of Jurati and the Borg Queen, although I think it could have been done without defanging the Federation's greatest foe I actually had to go back and watch Q-Who and Scorpion to get that taste out of my mouth. They did that with the Ferengi in the last episode of DS9 as well.

The Ferengi didn't need defanging, they never had any teeth in the first place.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The Ferengi didn't need defanging, they never had any teeth in the first place.

I disagree. They had ONE episode where they were legitimately threatening and it was a genuinely good episode.

"The Battle."

Unsurprisingly, because the Ferengi is NOT acting stereotypical but with the very human (ironic) motivation of grief over his dead son.

 

[Bornin1980something]

I think my mother liked the line without realising it was a reference.
But, is it realistic? When people do die young, is known for loved ones to later imagine, even hallucinate, them as older people?

hi, Bornin1980something here. I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question, especially @Therin of Andor , @Sci , and @PT109 . I am sorry for your losses, and I'm sorry if I've caused any offence. I have lost all four grandparents, but I don't recall losing anyone that close to me young. Indeed, I sometimes worry that I might not have enough grief in my life to relate to other people (this might partly come from watching Star Trek, as tragic family back stories have long been a feature of the franchise). However, my mother has permitted me to say that she had a miscarriage before I was born, and sometimes does imagine the child the way he should be now.
Since asking my question, I did re-watch Where No One Has Gone Before. I found it actually makes a lot of sense, especially as Picard acts like his mother was gone for a very long time. I had thought that the line in Hide And Seek was a retcon to explain away a contradiction, something the Star Trek franchise is known for, and very inappropriate for the subject matter. Having seen it again, I now wonder if the old the scene was actually the entire basis for the new story?

 

[Sci]

hi, Bornin1980something here. I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question, especially @Therin of Andor , @Sci , and at @PT109 . I am sorry for your losses, and I'm sorry if I've caused any offence. I have lost all four grandparents, but I don't recall losing anyone that close to me young. Indeed, I sometimes worry that I might not have enough grief in my life to relate to other people (this might partly come from watching Star Trek, as tragic family back stories have long been a feature of the franchise). However, my mother has permitted me to say that she had a miscarriage before I was born, and sometimes does imagine the child the way he should be now.
Since asking my question, I did re-watch Where No One Has Gone Before. I found it actually makes a lot of sense, especially as Picard acts like his mother was gone for a very long time. I had thought that the line in Hide And Seek was a retcon to explain away a contradiction, something the Star Trek franchise is known for, and very inappropriate for the subject matter. Having seen it again, I now wonder if the old the scene was actually the entire basis for the new story?

Thank you -- I appreciate you taking the time to reflect on your question and the impact it had. Apology accepted. And my condolences to your and your family's losses as well.

Also, you raise a good point -- it is entirely possible that that scene in "No One" inspired the PIC S2 subplot!

 

[SG-17]

I think it could have been done without defanging the Federation's greatest foe

You say this like its a bad thing. Were the Borg supposed to be an etropic force, unstoppable, unbeatable, forever?


Because that is pretty dull.

 

[Turbo]

I'd like to add my voice to those who appreciate them acknowledging the scene from Where No One Has Gone Before. It was something they could have easily ignored or overexplained but they handled it with a great short line that works with and without the context of that episode and makes sense for Picard's trauma.

 

[Tuskin38]

And it also still works for people who haven't seen the episode.

 

[ToddCam]

The care of that line makes me feel that the people who write Picard care a lot about what came before. They are not perfect, but it was actually a beautiful way to show how deeply Picard's mother's loss affected him.

This thread actually gave me something positive. My mom's sudden passing away almost five years ago was a traumatic experience for me (I performed CPR but she died anyway). I've had lots of intrusive memories of that night and they often overwhelm my ability to remember her fondly. I've tried to find ways around this, but I hope I can use the idea, mi mama in her 70s or 80s, as a way to achieve some kind of happiness around my memories.

 

[fireproof78]

The care of that line makes me feel that the people who write Picard care a lot about what came before. They are not perfect, but it was actually a beautiful way to show how deeply Picard's mother's loss affected him.

This thread actually gave me something positive. My mom's sudden passing away almost five years ago was a traumatic experience for me (I performed CPR but she died anyway). I've had lots of intrusive memories of that night and they often overwhelm my ability to remember her fondly. I've tried to find ways around this, but I hope I can use the idea, mi mama in her 70s or 80s, as a way of achieve some kind of happiness around my memories.

A like for sympathy and appreciation for sharing your story. I do hope you find healing.

 

[PicardHitbyTesla]

She didn't use a noose.

She wrapped it around her neck in a circle.

So she would have just spun like a top and probably lived.


Hanging is a bit of an exact science and the noose was developed by executioners for a reason.

 

[Bornin1980something]

She didn't use a noose.

She wrapped it around her neck in a circle.

So she would have just spun like a top and probably lived.


Hanging is a bit of an exact science and the noose was developed by executioners for a reason.

We are seeing the memories of a small child. I don't think anything looks quite like it really did.

 

[fireproof78]

We are seeing the memories of a small child. I don't think anything looks quite like it really did.

Indeed. This isn't a piece by piece reconstruction of an event, but the filtered memories of a traumatized child as told by an old man.

Accuracy is not present.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Sorry, I'm not a TNG buff. But did the episode you're referencing happen in TNG's first season, along with the episode about the body-snatching centipedes taking over Starfleet that were never mentioned again?

 

[Yistaan]

Picard: Q, where is the anomaly??

Q: Where's your mommy? Well I don't know.

(Yeah this dialogue was actually in the series finale of TNG. It seems to have a different tone now with what we now know about Picard's mother)

 

[Bornin1980something]

Sorry, I'm not a TNG buff. But did the episode you're referencing happen in TNG's first season, along with the episode about the body-snatching centipedes taking over Starfleet that were never mentioned again?

Yes, Where No One Has Gone Before, first season, one of the earliest. Only the second TNG episode I ever watched, but I never forgot Picard's mother.