Original Generations Uniforms

[Ro_Laren]

As many of you may know, TPTB had originally designed new uniforms for the cast to use on Generations. Does anyone know why they changed their minds & decided to use DS9 / Voyager uniforms instead? I know they also used TNG uniforms, but that is because things were moving so fast that they didn't have time to make DS9 / Voyager uniforms for everyone. I did find one web-site on-line that had the following explanation in the form of an excerpt from a book called Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Continuing Mission:



Is this the common explanation for the decision to ditch the new uniforms or have you heard other things as well?

 

[Khan 2.0]

looked abit Wrath of Khany. I think they should've used them. would've lessened the 'tv episode on the big screen' feel Generations had

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It was probably more about money than too many changes. I mean, how many other "new elements" were there in Generations?

Interesting they had rank pips and stripes on the sleeves.

It does look like they would have been constantly tugging the jacket down like they did with the S3-S7 ones. Maybe that's it.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

They spent the money on the new uniforms and actually began filming with them, then decided to scrap the uniforms. So, not a money issue.

 

[Dukhat]

This again?

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=116991

Basically, the rumor was that while the uniforms were made and actually started to be filmed, the producers felt that there were already too many changes being made and didn't want to confuse the audience. Which was most likely bullshit. They probably just didn't like them and didn't want to admit that they'd spent budget money on something that they couldn't use. So at the last minute they made the unusual decision to use the DS9 uniforms instead (which is, uh, still changing things).

In the end, however, it made for some awkward uniform changes in the film, with having the actors switch from the TNG uniforms to the DS9 uniforms halfway through the movie for no apparent reason. And why didn't Worf's uniform ever change? Plus, the DS9 uniforms didn't fit the actors correctly, having been borrowed right from the DS9 cast themselves and not tailor-made to the TNG cast.

 

[Lance]

For what it's worth, at least one deleted scene using the replacement uniforms (featuring Geordi on the bird-of-prey) was filmed and has become available. Apparently they must have watched the dailies of this scene and decided they didn't look right for some reason.

 

[Lance]

Basically, the rumor was that while the uniforms were made and actually started to be filmed, the producers felt that there were already too many changes being made and didn't want to confuse the audience. Which was most likely bullshit. They probably just didn't like them and didn't want to admit that they'd spent budget money on something that they couldn't use. So at the last minute they made the unusual decision to use the DS9 uniforms instead (which is, uh, still changing things).

The more I think about it, the more I agree that this decision bugs me.

The rationalization of it by the producers, I mean.

To be sure, the DS9 uniforms were somewhat 'familiar' to us by that point too. At least as familiar as the regular TNG garb.

But I agree, it's incredibly screwy for them to claim they didn't like the new uniforms because they were "too much of a change for the audience", only to then go and throw the TNG crew into the DS9 uniforms, costumes that we had never seen these particular characters wearing before and which are therefore as much of a change from the status quo as what the new uniforms would've been anyway!

If the plan was to play it safe in terms of not changing the visual look of what the crew are wearing, then why change the uniforms at all? Why not just use the regular TNG outfits for the entire movie? It isn't like they weren't suitable for the big screen, as I thought they held up very well from what we saw of them in the movie.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I never had a problem with the mixing in of the DS9/VOY uniforms with the TNG uniforms in Generations, but then I felt that they were originally a casual variant that could be worn (or not worn) at the discretion of a commanding officer. I'm also inclined to think that the Enterprise-D was in some sort of transition at the time (perhaps finally getting ready for a 10+ year exploration mission) and there was a lot of work going on all over the ship by the crew.

As far as the original Generations uniforms, I'm glad they were ditched. To me, they seemed as an interim design before the arrival of those even worse "All Good Things..." future uniforms.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Our armed forces have 2 - 3 uniforms at any given time. Dress, non-dress & work.

In the Navy in the 80's, it was the crackerjacks (black or white depending on the season), white short sleeve/black long sleeve (again, depending on the season) and dungarees.

 

[Vger23]

I think those uniforms were kind of bogus looking. Glad they didn't go with them. Also, for continuity purposes, those would have been the uniforms on Voyager and DS9 as well...I wonder if that had something dot do with the decision.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

When I was in the US Air Force we changed over from Olive Drab fatigues to Woodland Camo fatigues. There was a grace period where you could wear either set of fatigues. So you would see some people in the Camos and others in the Olive Drab. However there was a set time, think it was 6 months after introducing the Camos that everyone needed to be switched over.

This is how I feel about the TNG/DS9 uniforms being both worn in Generations. That Starfleet made the change from TNG uniforms to the DS9/Voyager uniforms and gave everyone a certain amount of time to change over.

 

[Ro_Laren]

For what it's worth, at least one deleted scene using the replacement uniforms (featuring Geordi on the bird-of-prey) was filmed and has become available. Apparently they must have watched the dailies of this scene and decided they didn't look right for some reason.

Is this the deleted scene that you are referring to?

 

[Lance]

^ I thought that was the one, but I might be mistaken - it's incredibly hard to tell.

I never had a problem with the mixing in of the DS9/VOY uniforms with the TNG uniforms in Generations, but then I felt that they were originally a casual variant that could be worn (or not worn) at the discretion of a commanding officer. I'm also inclined to think that the Enterprise-D was in some sort of transition at the time (perhaps finally getting ready for a 10+ year exploration mission) and there was a lot of work going on all over the ship by the crew.

My problem isn't so much that there are different uniforms, more that the DS9 uniforms still constitute such a sudden visual shift after seven seasons of the TNG crew only ever being seen in the TNG uniform. It's at least as much of a hard change to swallow as if they'd used the abandoned uniforms (indeed, it's arguably a bigger change, as at least the abandoned uniforms use the TNG template design as their hook).

 

[Botany Bay]

I think at 0:17 you can see the flap thing on Geordi's right shoulder. You can't really tell how the collar would have looked. Perhaps they would have looked great in action, but the concept sketches don't quite work for me, and I'm glad they were dropped. Pity about the money wasted though. As anyone who's looked into buying a screen accurate Trek uniform would tell you - these things are not cheap!

The TNG Season 3 - 7 uniforms were the best looking in modern Trek IMO, and look great on the big screen. The DS9 and FC ones...not so good.

 

[Dukhat]

My problem isn't so much that there are different uniforms, more that the DS9 uniforms still constitute such a sudden visual shift after seven seasons of the TNG crew only ever being seen in the TNG uniform. It's at least as much of a hard change to swallow as if they'd used the abandoned uniforms (indeed, it's arguably a bigger change, as at least the abandoned uniforms use the TNG template design as their hook).

The whole reason why the alternative uniforms and new combadges (which were used) were created in the first place was because they were supposed to be the new duty uniforms for Star Trek: Voyager. Hence, the new uniforms were most likely going to be worn from the very start of the film, just like the FC uniforms were, and they probably made a ton of them. When the decision was made to scrap the uniforms and go with the DS9 ones, what probably happened was that they simply didn't have enough of them for every single crew member on the Enterprise; hence the mishmash of TNG and DS9 uniforms. Sure, as stated before, there can definitely be multiple uniform variations in use at the same time, but as Lance said, the way it was presented in the film was a bit awkward.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I never had a problem with the mixing in of the DS9/VOY uniforms with the TNG uniforms in Generations, but then I felt that they were originally a casual variant that could be worn (or not worn) at the discretion of a commanding officer. I'm also inclined to think that the Enterprise-D was in some sort of transition at the time (perhaps finally getting ready for a 10+ year exploration mission) and there was a lot of work going on all over the ship by the crew.

My problem isn't so much that there are different uniforms, more that the DS9 uniforms still constitute such a sudden visual shift after seven seasons of the TNG crew only ever being seen in the TNG uniform. It's at least as much of a hard change to swallow as if they'd used the abandoned uniforms (indeed, it's arguably a bigger change, as at least the abandoned uniforms use the TNG template design as their hook).

To me, it's just a case of a new or variant uniform being introduced. I think the much bigger visual shifts were in TMP and TWOK.

 

[Mage]

The TNG Season 3 - 7 uniforms were the best looking in modern Trek IMO, and look great on the big screen. The DS9 and FC ones...not so good.

Funny, for me the DS9/FC uniforms were the best, together with the Enterprise uniforms. The rest looked either to much like pyjamas or were to overdone.
TWOK uniforms looked great, but felt more like dressuniforms. Not something you'd were on a daily basis and do a lot of work in. To restraining.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

My problem isn't so much that there are different uniforms, more that the DS9 uniforms still constitute such a sudden visual shift after seven seasons of the TNG crew only ever being seen in the TNG uniform. It's at least as much of a hard change to swallow as if they'd used the abandoned uniforms (indeed, it's arguably a bigger change, as at least the abandoned uniforms use the TNG template design as their hook).

The whole reason why the alternative uniforms and new combadges (which were used) were created in the first place was because they were supposed to be the new duty uniforms for Star Trek: Voyager. Hence, the new uniforms were most likely going to be worn from the very start of the film, just like the FC uniforms were, and they probably made a ton of them. When the decision was made to scrap the uniforms and go with the DS9 ones, what probably happened was that they simply didn't have enough of them for every single crew member on the Enterprise; hence the mishmash of TNG and DS9 uniforms. Sure, as stated before, there can definitely be multiple uniform variations in use at the same time, but as Lance said, the way it was presented in the film was a bit awkward.

S3 TNG still had many crewmembers wearing the S1 collar-less uniforms. Maybe S4 too. Probably for the same reason, not having enough of the new ones for everybody.

 

[J.T.B.]

Some uniform variation and transition aboard might even be considered more realistic than otherwise, compared to real world experience. Consider this 2012 photo from the aircraft carrier John C. Stennis:

http://stennis74.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/121130-n-zb122-078.jpg

In addition to the color-coded flight deck clothing, you can see wash khakis, blue coveralls, the new blue/gray working camo, tan and green flight suits, and even some woodland camo. That was in the transition period when the blue coverall was being replaced by the "blueberry" camo, which is now being replaced in turn by fire-resistant blue coveralls that look different from the old ones.

 

[Lance]

To me, it's just a case of a new or variant uniform being introduced. I think the much bigger visual shifts were in TMP and TWOK.

See, for me it would be for me much easier to accept the visual shift if we'd seen it happen over the seventh season of TNG, starting out with the old uniforms and gradually phasing in the new ones (DS9 jumpsuit or otherwise) until eventually everybody is just wearing the new uniform by "All Good Things". Much like how they transitioned from the S1/S2 uniforms to the S3-S7 uniforms gradually, with a mixture of both being seen on-screen for a while, and then eventually everybody's just wearing the new one. What makes the DS9 jumpsuit such a massive visual jump in the movie is that it just... happens. And while the 'uniform transition theory' is almost kinda acceptable, coupled with the changes to the sets and all of that, it just feels (as Dukhat already said earlier in the thread) somewhat awkward in the way that it just happens, if you go directly from watching the seven seasons to watching the movie.

It's ends up feeling like someone splashing you with cold water, so sudden does the change seem to happen as it is presented on-screen. Which, again, is exactly the reason that the producers gave for abandoning the unused uniforms in the first place: they said that the visual change was "Too much, Too soon". But the DS9 jumpsuits are ALSO too much too soon! That's why it doesn't make sense.

The whole reason why the alternative uniforms and new combadges (which were used) were created in the first place was because they were supposed to be the new duty uniforms for Star Trek: Voyager. Hence, the new uniforms were most likely going to be worn from the very start of the film, just like the FC uniforms were, and they probably made a ton of them. When the decision was made to scrap the uniforms and go with the DS9 ones, what probably happened was that they simply didn't have enough of them for every single crew member on the Enterprise; hence the mishmash of TNG and DS9 uniforms.

I've always wondered if maybe their apparent intended use for Voyager was a part of the decision to drop them? Maybe the powers that be realized there was something impractical about them, in a sense of them being harder to tailor or being too hot to film in or something, and they made a snap judgement that they didn't want the headaches of being locked into 7 seasons of using them on TV.