I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I missed it. Does Odo morph a working combadge, just as we have seen him do with handcuffs, carryiing cases, etc., etc.?
Odo's combadge
- Thread starter Bill Morris
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And probably swept up into subspace. After all, watch "Vortex": Odo becomes a transparent drinking glass, which then breaks into tiny shards, each smaller than a commbadge. He gathers himself, becomes a humanoid, and slaps his commbadge, which works just fine...
Odo apparently has the ability to shunt some of his mass "somewhere else" when morphing, so that he can become a very light object such as a drinking glass or a mouse. However, he does possess a lot of mass, again as per "Vortex", when imitating something that looks like it should have a lot of mass, such as a humanoid. This loss of mass cannot be explained by ordinary laws of physics, so we might just as well say that Odo has the ability to squeeze parts of himself (as well as objects concealed within parts of himself) into some suitably magical realm such as subspace.
In contrast, I very much doubt Odo could become a functional commbadge all by himself. He's just not that good at morphing. An experienced Changeling might be able to become a commbadge or a phaser or a starship or whatnot, though (see for example Laas from "Chimera"). There would be no obvious showstopper there, not if a Changeling can imitate the chemistry of a rock enough to read as a rock in a tricorder scan. Imitating the chemistry and physics of a phaser should be just a matter of a bit more practice...
Timo Saloniemi
Odo apparently has the ability to shunt some of his mass "somewhere else" when morphing, so that he can become a very light object such as a drinking glass or a mouse. However, he does possess a lot of mass, again as per "Vortex", when imitating something that looks like it should have a lot of mass, such as a humanoid. This loss of mass cannot be explained by ordinary laws of physics, so we might just as well say that Odo has the ability to squeeze parts of himself (as well as objects concealed within parts of himself) into some suitably magical realm such as subspace.
In contrast, I very much doubt Odo could become a functional commbadge all by himself. He's just not that good at morphing. An experienced Changeling might be able to become a commbadge or a phaser or a starship or whatnot, though (see for example Laas from "Chimera"). There would be no obvious showstopper there, not if a Changeling can imitate the chemistry of a rock enough to read as a rock in a tricorder scan. Imitating the chemistry and physics of a phaser should be just a matter of a bit more practice...
Timo Saloniemi
I imagined that when he's something small the mass is all still there. It's sloppy to write his changes into different sizes without explaining this, IMO. Changing himself into a hawk, for instance, which is clearly much smaller than a human indicates that either Odo is much smaller than he appears to be or the hawk is much heavier than it appears to be.
The writers are pretty consistent in showing that his mass matches his appearance, even if they don't give us the explicit magic that "explains" this. Not really sloppy, IMHO, and it avoids many other cliched pitfalls. Why should Odo's "natural" mass be that of his humanoid form, when his "natural" state is a small bucket of goo? Why would changing of mass be any more amazing than changing of optical properties such as transparency, a thing very difficult to achieve with a given set of constituent molecules, and thus a capability that strongly implies the ability to manipulate one's chemistry far beyond the limits of what should be sustainable life processes?
TOS gave us a number of shapeshifters that were merely very malleable biological entities, or very good PSI conjurers. Odo is obviously something more, hence all the more mysterious and unique.
Timo Saloniemi
TOS gave us a number of shapeshifters that were merely very malleable biological entities, or very good PSI conjurers. Odo is obviously something more, hence all the more mysterious and unique.
Timo Saloniemi
I always figured its like Optimus Prime's trailer when he transforms into truck mode. It just comes in from nowhere like subspace or something. Odomus Prime.
He's an alien that is sentient liquid goo.
It's not sloppy writing to leave an alien being and how it functions a mystery.
Many fans can't figure out how the replicators work even after explaining it, why bother explaining Odo? He just is.
hah! i would totally have watched a show where those two tried to fight each other.
Oh, sorry, I meant that it would have been a pitfall if the writers consistently gave him the mass of his humanoid form. Or if they, say, wrote some limitations on what he could do with his temperature, while ignoring his established ability to significantly concentrate or expand his volume.
What limitations they did give to Odo were rather good from the point of drama: he can't stay in a particular form forever, he can't imitate people well enough to fool anybody, and he does not have very impressive superpowers despite his flexibility. When they further established that those limitations had to do with him being very young, that was good for drama, too - because the other, older and more skilled Changelings then suddenly became as mysterious and even more threatening than Odo had originally been.
Timo Saloniemi
And yet he was able to PERFECTLY copy the form of a German Shepherd dog while "visiting" that 20th century military base.
There might be something to his insistence that his seagull is only convincing to non-seagulls. I mean, a seagull would probably consider his Bajoran (or human, or whatever) face good enough...
Of course, production-wise, it's not affordable to create "almost" seagulls and "almost" German Shepherds to go with the story. But we could argue that Odo got the dog wrong in every other detail save for the shape and the basic motion - and for dogs who rely a lot on smells and subtle movement, that just wouldn't do.
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, production-wise, it's not affordable to create "almost" seagulls and "almost" German Shepherds to go with the story. But we could argue that Odo got the dog wrong in every other detail save for the shape and the basic motion - and for dogs who rely a lot on smells and subtle movement, that just wouldn't do.
Timo Saloniemi
Maybe the animals he did weren't convincing to animals because of a lack of animal odors, though.
Yet somehow a trained adult Changeling can imitate smells. Or else it couldn't really hope to fool a tricorder.
Which brings us to some deep thoughts. It has been suggested that small parts of Changeling that leave the main body quickly lose the ability to mimic anything, and revert back to glowing goo. Granted, we don't really know if this is true - but if the Founder just faked it in "The Adversary", it's difficult to understand its motivation for doing so.
Now, scent molecules certainly would be small parts, and they certainly would be leaving the Changeling. So, does this lifeform have the ability to synthesize such molecules "for real", permanently? It should, apparently. But how does it do it? To fake being a rock, it can't really transform all its molecules into those of a rock, or else it would cease to be a Changeling and could no longer be anything but rock. Is the shapeshifting ability something that goes beyond molecular structure, perhaps beyond what is observable by today's physics? Sounds dubious, because Odo's life processes in his humanoid-imitating state still seem to hinge on biological molecules such as DNA (as in "Broken Link" or originally "A Man Alone"). Perhaps a Changeling just changes to a rock on the surface, and creates a tricorder-fooling effect of some sort to camouflage the interior.
Another related question is how a Changeling replenishes itself so that it can keep on shooting those scent molecules into the environment. Odo claims he doesn't eat. Is that just because he doesn't do scents? Would adult Changelings eat whenever they feel they have lost too much of their substance? Or can Changelings transmute elements at will, turning surrounding air or dirt (which not only are of the wrong molecular form, but also are likely to lack some of the key elements of scents) into scent when needed?
Perhaps skilled Changelings simply store all sorts of chemicals for use as needed (say, blood samples for fooling silly Federation "security measures")? The ability to rearrange molecules or even transmute elements on the spot would sound like a good and even necessary skill, though - especially if this is how the Changelings shape their own bodies in the first place.
Timo Saloniemi
Which brings us to some deep thoughts. It has been suggested that small parts of Changeling that leave the main body quickly lose the ability to mimic anything, and revert back to glowing goo. Granted, we don't really know if this is true - but if the Founder just faked it in "The Adversary", it's difficult to understand its motivation for doing so.
Now, scent molecules certainly would be small parts, and they certainly would be leaving the Changeling. So, does this lifeform have the ability to synthesize such molecules "for real", permanently? It should, apparently. But how does it do it? To fake being a rock, it can't really transform all its molecules into those of a rock, or else it would cease to be a Changeling and could no longer be anything but rock. Is the shapeshifting ability something that goes beyond molecular structure, perhaps beyond what is observable by today's physics? Sounds dubious, because Odo's life processes in his humanoid-imitating state still seem to hinge on biological molecules such as DNA (as in "Broken Link" or originally "A Man Alone"). Perhaps a Changeling just changes to a rock on the surface, and creates a tricorder-fooling effect of some sort to camouflage the interior.
Another related question is how a Changeling replenishes itself so that it can keep on shooting those scent molecules into the environment. Odo claims he doesn't eat. Is that just because he doesn't do scents? Would adult Changelings eat whenever they feel they have lost too much of their substance? Or can Changelings transmute elements at will, turning surrounding air or dirt (which not only are of the wrong molecular form, but also are likely to lack some of the key elements of scents) into scent when needed?
Perhaps skilled Changelings simply store all sorts of chemicals for use as needed (say, blood samples for fooling silly Federation "security measures")? The ability to rearrange molecules or even transmute elements on the spot would sound like a good and even necessary skill, though - especially if this is how the Changelings shape their own bodies in the first place.
Timo Saloniemi
Think Mystique from the X-Men films.
Mystique shape-shifts like an Octopus, changing not only her shape and form but texture as well. She's so good at it, she can even duplicate her retina to match others completely. That's equal to copying a fingerprint. Changlings are like that just 10x better. They take on properties so well, they actually mimic the objects meneral signatures. So when a Changling becomes a rock, it takes all the properties of that rock while still being a conscience living thing. IOW: A changling is aware of you in any form it's in, you aren't aware of it because it mimics completely. If Changling are liquid, all they're doing is expanding and/or contracting their molecular structure to match what they're changing into. We're talking about beings that have complete and utter control of each and every molecule in their bodies, very similar to how Replicators convert energy molecules into anything you wish it to make. It's just restructuring.
Changlings don't "eat" in terms of humanoid consumption. It doesn't mean Changlings can consume thru Osmosis.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I've not read what others have said because we've had this type of thread before so I'll just repeat what I always say:
Odo's comm badge is not a part of him, when he morphs he simply keeps the comm badge within himself and takes it with him, the comm badge is quite small and can quite easily be carried along with him through vents etc and even if he ever had trouble getting it through a vent he could simply leave it behind which is merely something thats never happened during onscreen episodes.
Do people truly believe that Odo with his complete inability to mimic humanoid ears could possibly create a full blown working subspace communication device?
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
Dont forget when Laos changed into fire and mist, in order to pull that kind of thing off his cells as it were would have had to have had gaps between them and yet he didnt revert to a gelatinous state.
Odo's comm badge is not a part of him, when he morphs he simply keeps the comm badge within himself and takes it with him, the comm badge is quite small and can quite easily be carried along with him through vents etc and even if he ever had trouble getting it through a vent he could simply leave it behind which is merely something thats never happened during onscreen episodes.
Do people truly believe that Odo with his complete inability to mimic humanoid ears could possibly create a full blown working subspace communication device?
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
Dont forget when Laos changed into fire and mist, in order to pull that kind of thing off his cells as it were would have had to have had gaps between them and yet he didnt revert to a gelatinous state.
This scene in Vortex ALWAYS bugged me. It seemed like too much of a stretch-both the shards of glass gimic (which seemed too reminiscent of Terminator 2, in a sea of T2 ripoff gimicks on DS9) and with regards to the combadge issue. When he was a glass, where was the combadge?
They let it go too far in that one. I groan everytime I see that scene.
I think he carries it inside him when he shapeshifts, he can probably reduce the space between the atoms of the combadge when he shrinks so it shrinks with him. This would make it too small to see with the naked eye when he shapeshifts into a glass or oozes through an airvent.
