Number of crew member deaths in Enterprise

[xrt]

I've watched almost all of everything Star Trek but not much of Enterprise.

Can anyone tell me (or even just take a guess) how many crew deaths there are in the Enterprise series? And how many crew there are on the Enterprise in total?

No spoilers with character names please, I haven't seen it yet!!!

You can say engineer, command, security, etc if they use that system in Enterprise

 

[judge alba]

not sure how many died but i think the enterprise held 85 crew

 

[Mach5]

NX-01 lost a lot of people during the Xindi mission. More than 20, I think.

 

[Kotik]

The crew complement was 85. By the time of "Home" they had lost 27 crew members and another death occurred during the events of "Daedalus". The final on-screen death was the suicide of a crew member in the finale "Terra Prime".

There's one more in TATV, but that doesn't count as it was a holo-simulation, not a real event.

 

[xrt]

Ok, so in crew percentage terms, Archer is worse than Kirk.

In the few Enterprise episodes I have seen (so far), Archer seems more reckless in his decision-making than Kirk, so this makes sense.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't think a single crewmember dies until season three.

 

[Kotik]

You have to keep some things in mind.

a) Kirk did not face a mission as atrocious as the Xindi war.
b) Kirk had almost 100 year of space travel experience to learn from, while Archer was the first human captain on any sort of long range deep space mission
c) NX-01 had vastly inferior defensive capabilities. Some of the dead were people blown out into space, which almost never happened in Kirks era anymore due to shields and emergency force fields, which were not available in Archers era.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The crew complement was 85. By the time of "Home" they had lost 27 crew members and another death occurred during the events of "Daedalus". The final on-screen death was the suicide of a crew member in the finale "Terra Prime".

There's one more in TATV, but that doesn't count as it was a holo-simulation, not a real event.

A holo-simulation of "real" (in-universe) events, I'm afraid.

 

[Skywalker]

The crew complement was 85. By the time of "Home" they had lost 27 crew members and another death occurred during the events of "Daedalus". The final on-screen death was the suicide of a crew member in the finale "Terra Prime".

There's one more in TATV, but that doesn't count as it was a holo-simulation, not a real event.

A holo-simulation of "real" (in-universe) events, I'm afraid.

Dramatic license. You don't really think Rome became a republic again after Emperor Commodus was killed in single combat by a general-turned-gladiator, do you?

 

[Kotik]

The crew complement was 85. By the time of "Home" they had lost 27 crew members and another death occurred during the events of "Daedalus". The final on-screen death was the suicide of a crew member in the finale "Terra Prime".

There's one more in TATV, but that doesn't count as it was a holo-simulation, not a real event.

A holo-simulation of "real" (in-universe) events, I'm afraid.

Cannot be, because

a) Many of it showed Riker talking to crew members, something which couldn't have happened, because he obviously was inserted 200 years later and there are surely no records of private talks to create such a holo-simulation from.

b) None of the crew was ever promoted, re-assigned or killed during the years of atrocious Earth-Romulan war.

These two things alone are proof enough that the simulation was not based on any historic facts, hence it is a fabrication, not a depiction of real events. In fact the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" suggests that even in Kirks era (100 years before the holo-sim in TATV was created) the knowledge of Archer's era was utterly sketchy at best, so there is reason to believe that many records of Archer's time did not survive. So how can one create a realistic holo-simulation of events for which scarcely any confirmed information exist at the time

 

[xrt]

Re Archer and Kirk, Yes, I agree. It is clear Archer (and Earth generally) was gaining experience in this. If he indeed went on to play a major role in the founding of the Federation, this experience was integrated very quickly.

To judge the chances of death with either captain, you would have to take into account any crew rotation, a normal practice I would expect on a starship, but something I know nothing about in practice.

 

[Kotik]

To judge the chances of death with either captain, you would have to take into account any crew rotation, a normal practice I would expect on a starship, but something I know nothing about in practice.

I don't think there's an immediate connection between the Captain and your chance of dying, because NX-01 took the most casualties, when Archer wasn't even in command. Most people died during the Reptilian attack at Azati Prime, when T'Pol was acting captain and Archer was in Reptilian captivity.

 

[xrt]

I would imagine Archer got them into the situation

But seriously, I can see I will have to go and get the set before I comment any further here

It surprises me to hear T'pol was in command - I thought she was strictly in an observer role only and (by Vulcan ethics) not permitted to take any pro-active role on the Enterprise.

 

[Kotik]

Well if you haven't seen it, it's of course difficult to draw any real conclusions. You cannot really compare Kirk and Archer at all, nor can you judge if Kirk would have suffered less casualties had he been in command of NX-01. The confrontation with the Reptilians was inevitable, regardless of the Captain. I would go as far as to say that Archer had a predilection for sacrificing himself rather than any crew member, which he clearly showed by his suicide mission at Azati Prime and taking on Shran in the Ushaan Tor.

 

[xrt]

I read this analysis of deaths under Kirk's command recently. Hence my questions about Archer. It was not really my intention to compare character, just statistics

 

[F. King Daniel]

The crew complement was 85. By the time of "Home" they had lost 27 crew members and another death occurred during the events of "Daedalus". The final on-screen death was the suicide of a crew member in the finale "Terra Prime".

There's one more in TATV, but that doesn't count as it was a holo-simulation, not a real event.

A holo-simulation of "real" (in-universe) events, I'm afraid.

Cannot be, because

a) Many of it showed Riker talking to crew members, something which couldn't have happened, because he obviously was inserted 200 years later and there are surely no records of private talks to create such a holo-simulation from.

In some episodes of Trek, everything the crew does is monitored. In others, there's seemingly no security at all. Therefore there's a precendent for this kind of thing. And even if it's an artistic liberty by the holoprogrammer, the episode's rendered ultra-pointless if the whole thing's a fiction (as the even-worse novel The Good That Men Do attempted)

b) None of the crew was ever promoted, re-assigned or killed during the years of atrocious Earth-Romulan war.

Doesn't mean a thing. And according to the aborted movie Star Trek: The Beginning, the Earth-Romulan "war" was a week-long battle in Earth orbit, in October 2159, between UESN fighter pilots and Romulan drone ships. The NX-01 was at Risa and missed the whole thing.

These two things alone are proof enough that the simulation was not based on any historic facts, hence it is a fabrication, not a depiction of real events. In fact the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" suggests that even in Kirks era (100 years before the holo-sim in TATV was created) the knowledge of Archer's era was utterly sketchy at best, so there is reason to believe that many records of Archer's time did not survive. So how can one create a realistic holo-simulation of events for which scarcely any confirmed information exist at the time

No, elements of "Balance of Terror" were simply retconned/ignored by the writers and producers of Enterprise. Just like how Voyager slowed down the galaxy-spanning warp speeds from TOS and TNG for the purposes of their story.

You'll recall the service records of Archer and Hoshi were part of the USS Defiant's (from "The Tholian Web") computer in "In a Mirror, Darkly", and even that Selek and Daniels had extensive foreknowledge of Archer's exploits. And that Archer was still alive, and teaching at the Academy, in Star Trek (2009).

 

[ChristopherPike]

And that Archer was still alive, and teaching at the Academy, in Star Trek (2009).

I remember reading that in Scotty's bio on the movie website... and I don't consider what I read to be canonical. Most of it written as simple marketing blurb and that part, an in-joke about Scott Bakula's more famous TV character. The idea that Archer would be teaching Quantum Mechanics 101 isn't realistic! I prefer Mike Sussman's proposed career as an Ambassador and in Federation politics myself.

As for the line in the film itself, there's no indication Scotty's instructor and Admiral Archer are the same person. He could've swiped a stuffed beagle on display in the Starfleet museum for all we know!

Doesn't mean a thing. And according to the aborted movie Star Trek: The Beginning, the Earth-Romulan "war" was a week-long battle in Earth orbit, in October 2159, between UESN fighter pilots and Romulan drone ships. The NX-01 was at Risa and missed the whole thing.

Which a bit of a snub against ENT really (reflecting Erik Jendresen's own opinion perhaps) and fortunately never saw the light of day. Although if the film only got through an initial draft, there's a good chance the reference would've changed. To me it doesn't jibe with Manny Coto's intentions or if you prefer, as far back as "Shockwave, Part II" and Daniels insistence that Archer not read a book on the Romulan Star Empire. Speculatively because it would be history he'd be playing a part in, if they were successful in restoring the timeline.

To me there's a nice potential symmetry with Archer. That he'd go from holding a grudge against one pointy eared race, graduating to another.

 

[Kotik]

In some episodes of Trek, everything the crew does is monitored. In others, there's seemingly no security at all. Therefore there's a precendent for this kind of thing. And even if it's an artistic liberty by the holoprogrammer, the episode's rendered ultra-pointless if the whole thing's a fiction (as the even-worse novel The Good That Men Do attempted)

Of course it is pointless. It was a rigged holo-program as a sort of "missing scenes" to an episode where Riker never had the time to pend that long in the holodeck to begin with. The whole thing is a huge honking reset button.

b) None of the crew was ever promoted, re-assigned or killed during the years of atrocious Earth-Romulan war.
Doesn't mean a thing. And according to the aborted movie Star Trek: The Beginning, the Earth-Romulan "war" was a week-long battle in Earth orbit, in October 2159, between UESN fighter pilots and Romulan drone ships. The NX-01 was at Risa and missed the whole thing.

a) That film was never made
b) What about the Battle of Chevron
c) The Romulan war span years as per "Balance of Terror"
d) Even then, no promotions/reassignments for a whole ten years is just ridiculous. Maybe T'Pol and Tucker would have stayed Commanders, but at least Hoshi or Travis must have made it to Lt. by then.

You'll recall the service records of Archer and Hoshi were part of the USS Defiant's (from "The Tholian Web") computer in "In a Mirror, Darkly", and even that Selek and Daniels had extensive foreknowledge of Archer's exploits. And that Archer was still alive, and teaching at the Academy, in Star Trek (2009).

Daniels was never mentioned again in later Trek. And you can't really take the 2009 trash film as a reference. That's representing a completely different universe.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And that Archer was still alive, and teaching at the Academy, in Star Trek (2009).

I remember reading that in Scotty's bio on the movie website... and I don't consider what I read to be canonical. Most of it written as simple marketing blurb and that part, an in-joke about Scott Bakula's more famous TV character. The idea that Archer would be teaching Quantum Mechanics 101 isn't realistic! I prefer Mike Sussman's proposed career as an Ambassador and in Federation politics myself.

As for the line in the film itself, there's no indication Scotty's instructor and Admiral Archer are the same person. He could've swiped a stuffed beagle on display in the Starfleet museum for all we know!

Bob Orci from Bad Robot and former ENT producer Mike Sussman have both said it's him. Therefore, it is.

Doesn't mean a thing. And according to the aborted movie Star Trek: The Beginning, the Earth-Romulan "war" was a week-long battle in Earth orbit, in October 2159, between UESN fighter pilots and Romulan drone ships. The NX-01 was at Risa and missed the whole thing.

Which a bit of snub really and fortunately never saw the light of day. To me it doesn't jibe with Manny Coto's intentions or if you prefer, as far back as "Shockwave, Part II" and Daniels insistence that Archer not read a book on the Romulan Star Empire. Speculatively because it would be history he'd later play a part in.

"Speculatively"? The film was greenlit and written. If not for a regieme change at Paramount it would have been Star Trek XI. It is what Rick Berman, ultimate overlord of Star Trek: Enterprise wanted.
It also tied in with Coto's Romulan storyline because it reused the drone ship idea from Enterprise.

 

[F. King Daniel]

b) What about the battle of chevron

Battle of Cheron, and it went the same way as everything else in TOS that Enterprise retconned/changed/ignored.

d) The Romulan war span years as per "Balance of Terror"

There's no mention of the war's length on-screen. You're thinking of the apocraphyl timespan invented for the war by the Star Trek Chonology in '93. But even then, much "Balance of Terror" is incompatible with Enterprise anyway.

Even then, no promotions/reassignments for a whole ten whole years is just ridiculous

Maybe some crew were promoted or left then were demoted or returned

You can't really take the 2009 trash film as a referenece. That's representing a completely different universe.

A timeline branching from the original in 2233. Only events after that date are different, just like how "Yesterday's Enterprise" shows an alternate sequence of events after the Enterprise-C vanished from the battle at Narandra III.