Miranda Class - Improvement over Constitution?

[Mysterion]

Was the Miranda class starship and improvement over the more well-known Constitution class starship? I think there may be a case to show that it was.

Most source seem to peg the Miranda (or Avenger class in fan-tech circles) as a "frigate" type vessel, implying something lesser than or not as versatile as a heavy cruiser like Constitution class ships. Upon closer examination, I believe that Miranda has as much going for it as it's more popular cousin does and should be considered a cruiser class vessel.

First off, it may be a smaller ship in raw overall dimension, but would seem to have more internal volume, as this video makes a case for:

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So there is room for as much in the way of facilities (research, crew quarters, etc) in a Miranda as there are in a Constitution. TWoK shows that a Miranda is (or can be) as well-armed as a Constitution class ship and hold it's own in a one-to-one battle - and this was under the command of someone without experience/formal training. Also as a more compact package, it would seem like it would be a tougher structure with less vulnerabilities than a Constitution class ship with it's long spindly nacelle struts and connecting neck.

In the post TOS era, there seems to have been a proliferation of this class of ship - often modified for other uses (USS Lantree as a supply carrier) or adapted into variant classes (Soyuz class USS Bozeman). I believe that Miranda may have largely replaced Constitution class ships (although with some competition from Excelsior class ships).

 

[Unicron]

I like to think that the Miranda design family is primarily frigates, with a few exceptions, and I think it was popular for having a greater range of potential modularity than designs of the Constitution family. There's also the potential issue of specific systems, as FASA suggested the Constitution was an advanced class during the Four Years War but they were largely kept out of open combat, because of the fear that the Klingons might capture or destroy them.

I tend to think the Constitution family (and to some extent, descendants/cousins like the Excelsior family) are just as capable but built more specifically for the exploration/cruiser roles. Perhaps a small bit less of general operational use, but it's just speculation. YMMV of course.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I think they mass produced more Miranda variants due to value in what you got out of each one in terms of Usable Floor Space, Total Resources to make each unit, Time to Manufacture, Simplicity, etc.

It seems that given the rate of technical improvement, the Mirand just seemed like a better design to mass produce.

Ergo we see plenty of them in the 24th century vs any Constitution Class Refits.

 

[Timo]

Or then all the Mirandas simply were newer than all the Constitutions (see the registry numbers), while most of the Constitutions were way older than the Enterprise (see the Constellation)...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always saw the Miranda-class as a more "economical" version of the Constitution-class that could possibly be built in larger numbers. If the Constitution-class was a heavy cruiser, then maybe the Miranda-class was a medium cruiser perhaps. I like to think that over time, the Miranda-class became something of a workhorse for the fleet and that was one of the reasons why they were still prolific into the 24th-Century.

 

[Tomalak]

The main difference between the Enterprise and the Reliant was the Enterprise's super tall and long intermix shafts - maybe that gives the ship overall superior speed or range? Apparently the Enterprise still holds various "speed records" as of TSFS, so she's still got the edge there.

 

[David cgc]

The main difference between the Enterprise and the Reliant was the Enterprise's super tall and long intermix shafts - maybe that gives the ship overall superior speed or range? Apparently the Enterprise still holds various "speed records" as of TSFS, so she's still got the edge there.

She hit warp 14 (old scale) in TOS, so it's possible that that was never exceeded by an un-hijacked Starfleet ship as of TSFS (tech manuals have the refit topping out at warp 12, on paper).

 

[XCV330]

Miranda was a continuation of the "Flat" type ships that dominated Federation design prior to the Klingon War. Whether it came before Constitution or slightly later, it was concurrent at least by Kirk's 5 Year Mission, with variants like Bozeman appearing soon after.

While some of its duties might have been similar to previous scout ships, it was also a capable fighter, unlike the Oberth, whose primary duty was to explode.

I think Mirandas and Constitutions had similar roles, but the Constitution class was designed to run independently for long periods of time, and was not intended necessarily for task force or fleet roles. Mirandas may have been a culimination of lessons learned from pre-Klingon War era craft. For whatever reason, Mirandas proved a longer lasting platform.

 

[Timo]

Might be the Miranda came a lot later than the Constitution - that is, the Constitution is older than we might think, possibly much older than the Enterprise herself. And she need not be a spring chicken, either.

Did both types have the same lifespan? From the 2260s to the 2370s for the Miranda, perhaps, so from the 2200s to the 2310s for the Constitution? (Or from the 2190s to the 2300s?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

She hit warp 14 (old scale) in TOS, so it's possible that that was never exceeded by an un-hijacked Starfleet ship as of TSFS (tech manuals have the refit topping out at warp 12, on paper).

Good point! I hadn't considered Kelvan jiggery-pokery etc.

 

[Timo]

Might still be the Miranda is faster, at least on impulse - Khan could "outrun" the heroes even though we heard of no direct damage to Kirk's ability to move at the early half of their first duel. Other than Kirk supposedly losing warp, but would that be a factor in Spock's tactical analysis?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

It's a but nebulous, but what I always took from the film was that Reliant had full impulse available, whereas the Enterprise was at less than full capacity. Spock says they have only "partial main power" versus Joachim's "impulse power restored".

 

[Timo]

True enough - but the tit-for-tat is interesting in this respect. First, the two ships meet. Then Khan hurts Kirk and Spock says they "can't escape on auxiliary power alone". But then Kirk hurts Khan back, hitting (at least) photon controls and warp drive - and suddenly Kirk can escape, on restored auxiliary power alone, and reach Regula at impulse while Khan is content to at most tail behind him beyond sensor range.

So did Kirk hurt Khan's impulse bad? Hurt Khan's overall power bad? Did Khan play pretend, in hopes of Kirk doing exactly what he did, that is, giving Genesis to Khan all on his own?

The repairs at Regula then follow, and it is after this that Khan again can "out-run" Kirk. But apparently either only barely, or then not at all, since it's Kirk who makes it into Mutara first...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

It's not that Kirk can escape, it's that Reliant has withdrawn first.

Khan found nothing on Regula remember, so went for plan B and had Kirk lead him to Genesis. What we don't quite know is if he put Chekov and Terrell in the cupboard before leaving to ambush Kirk, the suggestion is he did. Alternatively he might have nipped back to Regula, fridged the Starfleet boys, and then hid out of sight.

Remember that Khan has risk-averse Joachim in charge of the helm and the repairs. He may be deliberately overstating the damage to stop his unhinged boss destroying them all.

 

[Timo]

The issue there is that Kirk thinks Khan is gone. Yet when his sensors get back up to speed, he can spot Khan hiding behind a good-sized planetoid. Why would he miss Khan tailing or speeding past him in open space? It's there that the possibility of Khan actually being left dead in the water (initially, until his much smaller crew can effect repairs) becomes attractive.

But the movie is carefully constructed so that we can't directly compare the two contestants at any point: not their ships (as they receive damage in alternating blows), not their wits (as Kirk is rusty and Khan crazy, and Kirk gets better while Khan gets worse), and not their physical prowess (as they never meet). So we can imagine there are differences there in the default state of affairs already. Or that there are none.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[XCV330]

It's not that Kirk can escape, it's that Reliant has withdrawn first.

Khan found nothing on Regula remember, so went for plan B and had Kirk lead him to Genesis. What we don't quite know is if he put Chekov and Terrell in the cupboard before leaving to ambush Kirk, the suggestion is he did. Alternatively he might have nipped back to Regula, fridged the Starfleet boys, and then hid out of sight.

Remember that Khan has risk-averse Joachim in charge of the helm and the repairs. He may be deliberately overstating the damage to stop his unhinged boss destroying them all.

I like that. Joichim is the Anti-Scotty, multiplying all repairs by a factor of 8.

 

[DonIago]

The issue there is that Kirk thinks Khan is gone. Yet when his sensors get back up to speed, he can spot Khan hiding behind a good-sized planetoid. Why would he miss Khan tailing or speeding past him in open space? It's there that the possibility of Khan actually being left dead in the water (initially, until his much smaller crew can effect repairs) becomes attractive.

But the movie is carefully constructed so that we can't directly compare the two contestants at any point: not their ships (as they receive damage in alternating blows), not their wits (as Kirk is rusty and Khan crazy, and Kirk gets better while Khan gets worse), and not their physical prowess (as they never meet). So we can imagine there are differences there in the default state of affairs already. Or that there are none.

Timo Saloniemi

FWIW, IIRC the novelization states that the tactical view is being aided by Regula One's sensors as Enterprise's are still compromised.

 

[Timo]

Or it's a best guess, made when the heroes are provided with the all-new fact that Khan is nearby and in communication with the underground facility. That is, this is the only place where he can be, considering this fact and the failure to see him anywhere else.

Timo Saloniemi