LODE RUNNER is the greatest video game ever created.

[JD]

I understand that but my argument is that you can get characters world-building story-driven stuff from other mediums you can't get the amount of essential video game aspects from any other game on Mineral Resources like you can with Lode Runner.

I'm gonna have to disagree, I'll admit I've never played Lode Runner, but it doesn't really sound all that different from other games of it's era.
As for the other part of your argument, you might be able to get that stuff in other mediums, but not with nearly the amount of connection or immersion that get with games.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I might. I'm just not generally a mobile game player.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm gonna have to disagree, I'll admit I've never played Lode Runner, but it doesn't really sound all that different from other games of it's era.
As for the other part of your argument, you might be able to get that stuff in other mediums, but not with nearly the amount of connection or immersion that get with games.

I think there is more immersion from movies.. but is just me. With these new games I feel like I'm just playing a preset script.. that my actions really don't matter too muhc. Even open world games feel restricted.
Also Red Letter Media put out a video years ago where they put down why games like Super Mario Bros are more immersvie than modern games.. you instinctively know when to jump and what to do when playing Mario, it's all about timing and reflexes.. and you don't need prompts to tell you to press quare to open a lock or press triangle to break out of a chokehold.

Lode Runner was made before all of this stuff could be done, but in the sense that it cover s the gamut of what VIDEO GAMES as a mediums are, and what makes them different than other mediums, makes them great.

One way Pac-Man is superior than Lode runner is not that there are four named characters (ghosts) chasing you. but that each ghost has a different behavior style you can recognize. Blinky, the red one, is the most aggressive, while Clyde, the orange one, is the most shy, so you can act accordingly. Yet Lode Runner had a new strategy needed for each level, with VERY smart AI enemies. This time period was huge for gaming.. as far as the actual medium itself goes

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[Doom Shepherd]

>Does not contain the phrase "DESTROY HIM, MY ROBOTS!!"?
>Cannot be GOAT.

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[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

>Does not contain the phrase "DESTROY HIM, MY ROBOTS!!"?
>Cannot be GOAT.

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I love that game.

 

[JD]

I think there is more immersion from movies.. but is just me. With these new games I feel like I'm just playing a preset script.. that my actions really don't matter too muhc.

Sure, but I really don't see that as a problem, especially when the scripts are as good as the ones in games like The Last of Us or the Spider-Man PS4 game. The interacitivity gets me more immersed in the game's world than just sitting back and watching a movie or show ever could.

Even open world games feel restricted.
Also Red Letter Media put out a video years ago where they put down why games like Super Mario Bros are more immersvie than modern games.. you instinctively know when to jump and what to do when playing Mario, it's all about timing and reflexes.. and you don't need prompts to tell you to press quare to open a lock or press triangle to break out of a chokehold.

OK, I'll give you this one. I don't mind when that stuff pops up the first time you do something, but after a while it does get a little annoying.

Lode Runner was made before all of this stuff could be done, but in the sense that it cover s the gamut of what VIDEO GAMES as a mediums are, and what makes them different than other mediums, makes them great.

But all of that stuff was so primitive in games from this era, that I find it hard to really consider anything from that era better than what's coming out today. Sure they can be fun, but for me there's just no way something like that can compete with a Batman: Arkham game, or a Ratchet & Clank game, or something like Horizon: Zero Dawn.

One way Pac-Man is superior than Lode runner is not that there are four named characters (ghosts) chasing you. but that each ghost has a different behavior style you can recognize. Blinky, the red one, is the most aggressive, while Clyde, the orange one, is the most shy, so you can act accordingly. Yet Lode Runner had a new strategy needed for each level, with VERY smart AI enemies. This time period was huge for gaming.. as far as the actual medium itself goes

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That stuff was impressive for it's era, but there's just no way that can hold a torch to what today's games can do.
I have played simpler games and I do enjoy them, I love mobile games like Candy Crush and Angry Birds, but not to the same level as big story driven console games.

 

[Maurice]

I'd say of 8-bit and earlier video games, Spacewar would have to at least get a nod as among the best. It was first and it was astounding. It still plays well even now. not bad for early 60's coding.

good video of what the original looks like on the oridinal PDP-1 hardware.

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it was the first video game I ever played but much later, maybe 79, in an arcade, with my brother.

Some Spacewar! gameplay at 13:55.

I remember really liking Lode Runner, but to me it was sorta in the same league as Boulder Dash. Fun, but I never thought of either as the greatest video computer game if even their era.

Atari 800/5200 Star Raiders kicks both of their asses.

 

[Kor]

Sure, but I really don't see that as a problem, especially when the scripts are as good as the ones in games like The Last of Us or the Spider-Man PS4 game. The interacitivity gets me more immersed in the game's world than just sitting back and watching a movie or show ever could.

OK, I'll give you this one. I don't mind when that stuff pops up the first time you do something, but after a while it does get a little annoying.

But all of that stuff was so primitive in games from this era, that I find it hard to really consider anything from that era better than what's coming out today. Sure they can be fun, but for me there's just no way something like that can compete with a Batman: Arkham game, or a Ratchet & Clank game, or something like Horizon: Zero Dawn.

That stuff was impressive for it's era, but there's just no way that can hold a torch to what today's games can do.
I have played simpler games and I do enjoy them, I love mobile games like Candy Crush and Angry Birds, but not to the same level as big story driven console games.

On the other hand there's a trend of "party games" on consoles going back to simpler game mechanics and graphics.

Kor

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Loderunner is a good game. I think it's a bit limited in terms of different combinations of strategies compared to some of the other great puzzle games.

In terms of the story/worldbuilding aspect of games. When you're just talking about cutscenes and cinematography that happen between gameplay, yes, you can do that in other mediums. But really good video game stories are integrated with the gameplay. The situation in the story drives what you're doing in the gameplay and the way you play affects the course of the story. You have a different relationship with the story than you do in a movie because you don't feel like a passive observer.

 

[Owain Taggart]

One of the best examples of that is with the Uncharted series. Naughty Dog is excellent at crafting stories that drive the gameplay.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Also Mass Effect, Nier Automata, Catherine, etc.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

This description of LODE RUNNER from Steam is really the essence of why I hod the game in high regard:

Named one of “The Greatest Games of All Time” by GameSpot, Lode Runner was created by Douglas E. Smith in 1983 while a student at the University of Washington. The game was not only an award-winning bestseller, but also a significant milestone that influenced many in the video game industry.

Alexey Pajitnov, creator of Tetris, said of the game, “My favorite for many, many years. Every level was a real puzzle with its own mechanics, its own dynamics, its own kind of solution. … I can’t imagine any other game with such inventive and unusual design.”

In a tribute to Smith after his death in 2014, US Gamer editor-in-chief Jeremy Parish commented, “[He] created one of the most innovative formative works of the medium, a game that managed to transcend international boundaries and become a beloved classic among American PC gamers and Japanese console fanatics alike.”

The development of games is a dynamic process.. and different titles have different influences. On a purely mechanical level, Lode Runner did a whole lot but as a title not amny people today know about it.

One thing that Pac-Man did that Lode Runner did not was have it's 4 ghost characters each behave differently, yet within what you'd expect from that character. Blinky (red) might have been the fastest and more aggressive, while Clyde (orange) was shier, and the fact that players could depend on those characteristic differences each time they played was a huge step in video games, as I started to see it in fighting games, as there is no reason the small female characters in fighting games are less resilient than their male counterparts except that the programmers thought they would be and actually programmed that into the game

 

[Maurice]

Actually, I once got drunk with the creator of PAC-MAN (see 15 year old photo taken before the sake drinking began) and I know exactly how each ghost works.

The ghosts have 2 base behaviors, which alternate:

1. Rest Mode — each aims for their corner of the maze
2. Attack Mode —each targets PAC-MAN in this own manner, as below:

• RED Blinky aka Shadow —aims right at PAC-MAN, speeds up when there are few pellets left and speeds up even more when there are less, but otherwise the ghosts are all the same speed
• PINK Pinky/Speedy — misleading nickname cuz he's not faster: in Japanese he's not speedy but "ambusher" because he aims ahead of PAC-MAN's current facing
• CYAN Inky/Bashful — sometimes he turns towards you, sometimes away, based on where Blinky is relative to PAC-MAN
• ORANGE Clyde/Pokey — Pokey as in "slow" (thinker) because he behaves like Blinky at a distance and then runs for his corner when he gets within a certain distance from PAC-MAN

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Actually, I once got drunk with the creator of PAC-MAN (see 15 year old photo taken before the sake drinking began) and I know exactly how each ghost works.

The ghosts have 2 base behaviors, which alternate:

1. Rest Mode — each aims for their corner of the maze
2. Attack Mode —each targets PAC-MAN in this own manner, as below:

• RED Blinky aka Shadow —aims right at PAC-MAN, speeds up when there are few pellets left and speeds up even more when there are less, but otherwise the ghosts are all the same speed
• PINK Pinky/Speedy — misleading nickname cuz he's not faster: in Japanese he's not speedy but "ambusher" because he aims ahead of PAC-MAN's current facing
• CYAN Inky/Bashful — sometimes he turns towards you, sometimes away, based on where Blinky is relative to PAC-MAN
• ORANGE Clyde/Pokey — Pokey as in "slow" (thinker) because he behaves like Blinky at a distance and then runs for his corner when he gets within a certain distance from PAC-MAN

Thank you for this incredible post! Lot's of great insight. What a superb picture

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I wanted to try to articulate why LODE RUNNER was so inventive. Those that know it already know. As simple as it looks, and while you play and while it seems like an adventure game where you sweep in and collect your chests, notice how the buried chests on the right you must dig a separate series of holes for each chest, and that requires you to go back to the top each time you do it.
The game is fun, spry and addicting, and made the most of the medium of video games that makes video games unique!

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Actually you CAN get more than one chest on the right at a time. But I love that you have to THINK just as much as you have to have reflexes

 

[Qonundrum]

I started with the Apple version but the NES version (which I recently discovered) was the most surprising - the scrolling, which is smooth, adds a lot to the gameplay. Even if the characters look a little too "cute". It's a tough call since the early 8-bit releases do have a timeless charm; but too many souped up visuals really can detract. "Lode Runner The Legend Returns" looks pretty but it feels over the top. The Nintendo Switch version also does little. The 3D versions also... meh. There's a reason, and not always that being nostalgia, that has had "retro" 2D blocky looks for some phone games making a return. There is a genuine charm to them.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I started with the Apple version but the NES version (which I recently discovered) was the most surprising - the scrolling, which is smooth, adds a lot to the gameplay. Even if the characters look a little too "cute". It's a tough call since the early 8-bit releases do have a timeless charm; but too many souped up visuals really can detract. "Lode Runner The Legend Returns" looks pretty but it feels over the top. The Nintendo Switch version also does little. The 3D versions also... meh. There's a reason, and not always that being nostalgia, that has had "retro" 2D blocky looks for some phone games making a return. There is a genuine charm to them.

I totally agree. I got the most recent release on steam, which contains slightly 3-D versions of the old levels I also tried the NES version. but what made Lode Runenr special was the idea that, since some of the levels were truely more puzzle-like in nature, seeing the entire level at once was really the preferred way.. and hold the phone on the graphics.. the idea that it was stick figure and simple bricks meant that it was about the gameplay.. not character and story, but reflexes and thinking on your feet.. the one thing that makes video games different from every other medium. You can iamgine a scenario where you are the villain.. a theif stealing gold, or the hero.. an Indiana Jones type recovering chests.. but the charm of the game lies within its simplicity.
The Lode Runner Web Game (just google that phrase and you can play it in your browser) is very close, and you can do eevel editing and pick what version (c-64 or Apple2) you want to play.. but I noticed the movement is not as smooth as I remember from the old systems. The timing may also be off in this version (made by a fan) as I've not been able to dig for thee villains ina row and make it over all three of them before the first escapes and kills me.. some puzzles (levels) depend on you being able to do this to solve them.

The best version now is Lode Runner classic for phones and tablets.. but it has no level editor

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Here is an example of the "simple brilliance' of this game that transcends is simple graphics and dated look. I just solved this level on my phone last night. Getting the chests on the left was easy, and I also had an idea to get the ones on the top (which I won't reveal) and then I was playing and scratching my head on how to get the ones on the right "pyramid". I'm also trying to figure it out WHILE being chased by these guys.. and it's that kind of thing (thinking on your feet while doing all the normal video game stuff like avoiding and dealing with opponents) that makes this game hoold up and is (at base) better than a lot of games, as it doesn't NEED graphics or story.

 

[JD]

I just finished playing The Last of Us Part II, and I'd put that down as a very serious contender for greatest video game of all time. It's got the perfect combination of amazing story, with outstanding gameplay, fascinating characters, and phenomenal worldbuilding.