Last Jedi Official Teaser Trailer is Here!

[Set Harth]

2 minutes in he says here that Vader defeating Palpatine and removing evil from the universe brings balance to the force.

You're interpreting him in a way that is indefensible from a logical standpoint ( while relying on certain convenient unspoken assumptions along the way ).

Namely: how did we end up talking about evil here? If we are to think that the words placed by others in Lucas' mouth about the light side, the dark side and the balance are correct, shouldn't we have expected Lucas saying something about, well, the light side and the dark side?

Why should the death of Palpatine "remove evil from the universe"? What kind of universe are we left with after he is killed?
A universe with no evil beings anywhere? Or even any beings among all the uncounted multitudes out there who are even a tiny bit evil?
A universe that lacks even the capacity for evil?
How do you get all that just from Palpatine being thrown down a hole?

Are we to imagine, in bending over backwards in ridiculous fashion to somehow make internet revisionism work, that ROTJ somehow magically turned all evil people good and removed the capacity for evil to even exist? Is that what you thought was happening when you watched ROTJ?

Then why didn't any of the EU authors in the 1990s write as if their setting was an evil-free universe? How did the First Order, Snoke and the Knights of Ren come to be? And why did Lucas equate Luke's role going forward to the equivalent of a police officer?

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm just saying what he is saying in that video.

 

[Set Harth]

In ROTS bringing balance to the Force is equated with the destruction of the Sith.

 

[Logopolis]

Saw the trailer.

"I f*****g love Star Wars! OMG I RECOGNISED ALL THE STUFF IN THAT TRAILER! I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS!"

 

[KyleRaynous]

Anakin brings balance to the Force. The question will start to become "How?"
Ending the Sith?
Ending the Jedi?
Having Luke and Leia?

His family could carry this legacy, or we go back to the theory that Rey is Anakin reincarnated.

Interesting trailer, especially given the fact we still have 8 months untill the movie. I like this seemly approach to a "middle" side in the force. I hope they finally deepen more into the great mystery, which was never fully developed since ESB...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm just saying what he is saying in that video.

But again, unless I missed it, he didn't mention an end to the dark side, only to the Sith and evil.

And I agree with @Set Harth, at least in that it is kinda unbelievable to eliminate evil.

And also, while it might have been Lucas's original idea that the Sith end with ROTJ, SW going forward now need not stick to that original plan; that could be an instance of what @Campe98 was getting at.

 

[Reverend]

"What fight? "
"The only fight. Against the dark side. Through the ages... I've seen evil take many forms. The Sith. The Empire. Today, it is the First Order. "

Then it's a poor metaphor.

No, it's a perfectly apt metaphor
What is light but the presence of something? What is dark but the absence of that something? The dark side is a consuming void. It creates nothing but more of itself, whereas the light creates life, death and harmony and is created by them in turn.
This cycle of the living and cosmic force is explicitly described by Qui-Gon in TCW. Nowhere does he say "and the dark plays it's vital role too in the balance".

 

[Set Harth]

This cycle of the living and cosmic force is explicitly described by Qui-Gon in TCW.

"This" cycle of the living and cosmic Force?

I thought we were talking about the light side and the dark side.

What does that have to do with the living Force and the cosmic Force?

The living Force is not the light side.

Nowhere does he say "and the dark plays it's vital role too in the balance".

Nowhere does he say "balance is all light and no dark". Why would he? For one thing, that's complete nonsense, and for another thing, he's talking about a different subject. We may also note that he does not say 2 + 2 = 4. The dark playing its vital role in the balance, meanwhile, was covered by a different episode of the same show.

 

[Campe]

"What fight? "
"The only fight. Against the dark side. Through the ages... I've seen evil take many forms. The Sith. The Empire. Today, it is the First Order. "


No, it's a perfectly apt metaphor
What is light but the presence of something? What is dark but the absence of that something? The dark side is a consuming void. It creates nothing but more of itself, whereas the light creates life, death and harmony and is created by them in turn.
This cycle of the living and cosmic force is explicitly described by Qui-Gon in TCW. Nowhere does he say "and the dark plays it's vital role too in the balance".

The definition of balance however is "an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady." That, to me, doesn't indicate that good completely overtakes bad. Not is there any sort of realism to the idea that it would.

And yes, I realize Star Wars is fantasy. However, if GL's idea of balance of the Force completely obliterates the dark side, it is a TERRIBLE metaphor. Sorry, but it's true.

 

[Reverend]

The definition of balance however is "an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady." That, to me, doesn't indicate that good completely overtakes bad. Not is there any sort of realism to the idea that it would.

And yes, I realize Star Wars is fantasy. However, if GL's idea of balance of the Force completely obliteratsd the dark side, it is a TERRIBLE metaphor. Sorry, but it's true.

Again, you're applying literal thinking to a mythological tale and it's just not going to make sense in those terms because it's not designed that way.

This isn't a modern tale about the merits of one subjective philosophy or the other. It's a timeless morality myth aimed at 12 year olds that can be boiled down to "resist the inner urge of selfishness". Good and evil in this context isn't something that can be objectively measured and put "in balance". You don't get to kick puppies because you helped an old lady across the street. That's not balanced, it's evil.

 

[Set Harth]

However, if GL's idea of balance of the Force completely obliterates the dark side, it is a TERRIBLE metaphor. Sorry, but it's true.

That's the thing: it's not Lucas' idea. It's the creation of fans who have a revisionist view of the Force not consistent with Lucas.

 

[Campe]

Again, you're applying literal thinking to a mythological tale and it's just not going to make sense in those terms because it's not designed that way.

This isn't a modern tale about the merits of one subjective philosophy or the other. It's a timeless morality myth aimed at 12 year olds that can be boiled down to "resist the inner urge of selfishness". Good and evil in this context isn't something that can be objectively measured and put "in balance". You don't get to kick puppies because you helped an old lady across the street. That's not balanced, it's evil.

*sigh*

Ya know what? We're not going to change each other's mindset about this. Let's agree to disagree and see what happens come December! Cool?

 

[dahj]

I'm also given to recalling Yoda's words: "always in motion is the future."

Things also always in motion:

• official interpretation of the Force
• definitive number of Episodes in the saga
• sand, which gets everywhere

 

[CorporalCaptain]

sand, which gets everywhere

At last, something we can agree on!

 

[Reverend]

Pretty sure the irritating nature of sand is a fixed point in the fabric of the space-time continuum...

 

[Campe]

The question is: Will we ever have balance of the sand?

 

[KyleRaynous]

˄ No, just a balance of quartz, calcium, iron, gypsum, or any other mineral particle present in it.

 

[sojourner]

You guys are forgetting one thing here. Money is the deciding factor. As long as Disney can make money by cranking out movies there will never be balance brought to the force.

 

[FPAlpha]

I would offer a twist on your theory. It is possible he wants the Jedi and the Sith to end, not to leave the Force alone, but because he wants a new type of person who embraces a bigger picture than just Light and Dark. In other words, he wants to replace the Jedi and the Sith with something new. I definitely got the vibe that he is training Rey to be more than just a Jedi, particularly her line about "something so much bigger". Also, consider that Luke has spent a long time alone on this island meditating on the Force. It would make sense that he has reached an epiphany about the true meaning of the Force. So he might have reached a greater understanding of the Force where he feels that Jedi (Light) fighting Sith (Dark) is antiquated.

I completely agree and it's been on my mind for years.

Both sides, but especially the Jedi, have been so strict in their teachings and they confine their students/practicioners with so many rules of conduct that they deny human/alien nature. We all have the capacity to be good or evil to varying degrees and we all have to fight the urges every day.. sometimes small, sometimes big.

If you had your mother murdered and die in your arms what would you do if you had the power to immediately enact revenge? Can anyone safely say 100% that they would walk away and call the authorities without hesitation or would you think about personal revenge?

This is why the concept of pure Black or White is untenable because live beings can never be exclusively white or black so it may be time to acknowledge this and do away with the old constricting system and replace it with a new, more realistic and humane way of teaching a person about the Force and instill in them the personal responsibility what it means to be a Force user.

If that becomes a theme or even the central focus of this movie i will be one happy camper and finally something unique to come off Abrams. I really like his Star Strek movies but he never moved much to establish his own vision and create new characters and Force Awakens was unfortunately the same.. a basic remake of elements from a New Hope. Now i hope he strikes out on his own and takes Star Wars in an entirely new direction and December can't come soon enough.

 

[Venardhi]

The definition of balance however is "an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady." That, to me, doesn't indicate that good completely overtakes bad. Not is there any sort of realism to the idea that it would.

And yes, I realize Star Wars is fantasy. However, if GL's idea of balance of the Force completely obliterates the dark side, it is a TERRIBLE metaphor. Sorry, but it's true.

At least in the OT, the implication of the "dark side" of the Force is that the power of The Force can be corrupted and twisted to evil and unnatural uses. The "light side" is the proper use of it in harmony with its natural state and flow.

Vader was seduced by the power of the dark side, by how powerful you could be if you wielded it as a blunt instrument. The ultimate symbol of this power was the chaotic and destructive lightning that the Emperor forges it into that he eventually loses control of in his final moments.

The Force is just The Force. The dark side is a mindset, a methodology, one that is hard to resist once you have known its power but that is disruptive to its nature and eventually destructive to yourself.

Clearly the Lucas of the late 90s changed his mind about that though.