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Kirk the womanizer???

Warped9

Admiral
Admiral
Kirk has a widespread reputation as a womanizer accompanied by the image of him putting the moves on and kissing a parade of lovely women whether human, alien or android.

But is this perception really valid? During my revisit of TOS I'm noticing that Kirk really isn't much of a dog when it comes to women. Yes, he flirts and occasionally uses his natural charm toward some purpose, but in any situation where he has had apparently genuine feelings for the woman he has actually been a gentlemen. And there have also been a number of times when it has been the woman pursuing him.

The real corker is the idea of Kirk gettin' it on with an exotic green alien female and yet the one time he encounters such in TOS he has zero interest in her and she's a nutcase chasing him with intention to kill him.

The term womanizer can have varying levels of meaning. It can mean a man who pursues women simply for the sake of casual sex. I don't doubt that Kirk has done this at some point as many men have done particularly when younger since it is often taken as measure of one's masculinity. I certainly don't think Kirk is portrayed anywhere near the same level as James Bond. A womanizer can also be someone who pursues sex with women in a lecherous manner and I really don't think that applies to Kirk.


In my revisit of TOS this is what I saw.

“Mudd’s Women” – Kirk shows no real interest in Eve McHuron, but rather it’s she who throws herself at him. And he doesn’t really respond.
“What Are Little Girls Made Of?” – Kirk certainly has no feelings for Andrea and is simply trying to see if he can distract and confuse the android.
“Dagger Of The Mind” – Kirk’s behaviour with Helen Noel is out of character and context primarily because Adams uses the neural neutralizer to mess with Kirk’s head.
“Miri” – Kirk is charming and kind to Miri which she takes as genuine interest. And that sort of thing can (does) easily happen in the real world.
“The Conscience Of The King” – Kirk initially feigns interest in Lenore, but it’s difficult to say whether he develops any real feelings for her or it’s more simply guilt for having used her.
“Court Martial” – Kirk and Areel Shaw have a history and apparently still hold genuine affection for each other. There’s no apparent lingering bitterness here.
“Shore Leave” – The replicated Ruth allows Kirk to revisit an earlier time in his life much like the holodeck would do for those in TNG.
“A Taste Of Armageddon” – It’s quite apparent Kirk has zero interest in Mea other than trying to keep her alive.
“The City On The Edge Of Forever” – Kirk’s attraction to Edith Keeler makes more sense in terms of finding a measure of comfort in a bizarre and difficult situation. It has happened often when men and women turn to one another in times of stress. But you have to wonder if he would have been drawn so strongly to her under more normal circumstances.
“Catspaw” – Kirk evidently has zero genuine interest in Sylvia and uses his charm and her apparent interest in him to distract her.
“Mirror, Mirror” – Kirk has no real interest in the mirror Marlena beyond impersonating his mirror counterpoint to buy time in order for him and his crew to get home. As far as the prime universe Marlena is concerned well that’s an open question.
“The Deadly Years” – I doubt Kirk was really interested in resuming a serious relationship with Janet Wallace. Again it seems more her going after him. But afterwards perhaps a little mutually agreeable nooky with a non crew member?
“Bread And Circuses” – He was probably expecting inevitable death and there was Drusilla with orders to please him in his final hours. What would you do?
“A Private Little War” – Kirk has no interest in Nona until she drugs him.
“The Gamesters Of Triskelion” – The future looks bleak for Kirk, Uhura and Chekov and Kirk may feel some genuine sympathy and empathy with Shaana, but I don’t think he had genuine romantic feelings for her.
“By Any Other Name” – As he has done two or three times before he uses his male charms to distract and confuse Kalinda.
“Return To Tomorrow” – Kirk has no interest in Anne Mulhall, but rather it’s Sargon and Thalassa acting out their feelings.
“Elaan Of Troyius” – Again Kirk has no interest in Elan until she drugs him.
“The Paradise Syndrome” – Kirk is an amnesiac finding himself in an unknown and confusing situation and there is the comforting presence of Miramanee.
“Is There In Truth No Beauty?” – Kirk’s overtures to Miranda Jones are more to distract her attention than genuine romantic interest even though it’s apparent he finds her appealing. With his ship at risk the woman takes a distant second place.
“The Empath” – No evident interest in Gem beyond normal concern for her welfare.
“Plato’s Stepchildren” – Kirk’s kiss with Uhura is forced by Parmen’s telekenetic will rather than born of genuine romantic interest.
“Wink Of An Eye” – Deela throws herself at Kirk and he eventually plays along to fool her.
“Whom Gods Destroy” – Marta is certifiably crazy and Kirk certainly has no interest in her.
“The Mark Of Gideon” – Kirk is manipulated into a bizarre situation and Odonna’s seeming innocence and vulnerability elicits a measure of fondness and protectiveness in Kirk, but apparently no deep feelings.
“Requiem For Methuselah” – Again Kirk is manipulated to some extent, but his immediate response to Rayna does seem too strong and quick to be credible, particularly with his crew in jeopardy. I can only assume there could be some other manipulative force at work and/or Rayna also puts out some damned powerful pheromones.
“Turnabout Intruder” – Janice Lester is a freaking bitter loon who could never forgive Kirk choosing his career over her. He evidently holds some fondness for her but no lasting romantic feelings.

Kirk is evidently a career officer and his relationships are inevitably affected by that. Yet I certainly don't think Kirk is cad. And looking back I think his most genuine and most normal relationship was with Areel Shaw. They obviously have a history, they both are realistic and grown-up about it and there appear to be no lingering resentments and they also apparently retain a good measure of affection for each other.


Thoughts anyone?
 
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Deja vu...didn't we have this exact thread, including episodic details, a while back?

Doug
 
Star Trek: The Magazine did an article enumerating Kirk's encounters with the opposite sex, and revealing how VERY infrequently he actually consummated the deal. I can't be arsed to go thru all the issues and find it, however. :).
 
It's just a shame the movie producers use a caricature of Jim Kirk instead of actually watching TOS. Jim Kirk is a genuinely interesting character without the "bad boy" baggage everyone wants to attach to him.
 
Sorry, but I must have missed that previous thread. Considering the breadth of the subject I didn't want to derail my TOS revisit thread too much with this and so I started a separate thread for it.
 
A womanizer can also be someone who pursues sex with women in a lecherous manner ...
If you drop the "in a lecherous manner," you have a accurate definition of a womanizer, or a modern day player, a serial screwer. For Kirk to truely be a player it would imply that he primarily engaging in sex with women he isn't having relationships with.

For a player, it all about the pursuit, the sex and the clean disengagement. Then move on to the next kill.

:)
 
A womanizer can also be someone who pursues sex with women in a lecherous manner ...
If you drop the "in a lecherous manner," you have a accurate definition of a womanizer, or a modern day player, a serial screwer. For Kirk to truely be a player it would imply that he primarily engaging in sex with women he isn't having relationships with.

For a player, it all about the pursuit, the sex and the clean disengagement. Then move on to the next kill.

:)
And I don't think that really applies to Kirk.
 
How could you forget Rand and Kirk?

Although admittedly it was just Kirk's darker half and Rand...

Apparently it was enough for it to make a lasting impression. In Miri, Rand was almost behaving like the Captain's woman.
 
Kirk doesn't pursue Rand (except his darker side in "The Enemy Within"). Under normal circumstances Kirk stayed clean there.
 
^^ That doesn't say anything but being taking things out of context and pandering to caricature.
 
. . . The real corker is the idea of Kirk gettin' it on with an exotic green alien female and yet the one time he encounters such in TOS he has zero interest in her and she's a nutcase chasing him with intention to kill him.
And the only other green woman in the entire original series is Vina, who appears as the illusion of a green Orion slave girl thanks to the mind-controlling Talosians -- and that was with Captain Pike, not Kirk. But lots of people outside of Trek fandom think Star Trek is mainly about green women and some dude with pointed ears.

“Miri” – Kirk is charming and kind to Miri which she takes as genuine interest. And that sort of thing can (does) easily happen in the real world.
And we know there was never any possibility of Kirk having romantic feelings for Miri because of the age difference. She's three hundred years older than he is!

Kirk doesn't pursue Rand (except his darker side in "The Enemy Within"). Under normal circumstances Kirk stayed clean there.
While under the influence of the alien virus in "The Naked Time," Kirk admitted at least a passing interest in Yeoman Rand. But he revealed what we knew all along -- that his one true love is the Enterprise.
 
I am sooo glad you posted this! (apparently I missed the other thread) I have always taken umbridge with casual fans who repeat this misunderstanding about Kirk. Of course we all know that the writers were just trying to inject some sort of romance for the female viewers and a little fantasy for the guys, but it wasn't anywhere near what people made it out to be! Too bad that most folks won't see this thread and come to a clean understanding though. Jus' Sayin'
 
He certainly had the charm & knew how to use it to his advantage...... One thing's for sure I certainly wouldnt of said no to him ;-) ah time for dream bubble...
 
Expanding on what we see of Kirk later:

"Jihad" - Lara shows interest in Kirk, but he doesn't respond in kind.
TMP - According to the novelization of the film one of the Starfleet officers killed in the transporter mishap was a (perhaps) former lover of Kirk's after the Enterprise returns from its 5-year mission, yet this isn't established or even referenced in the film.
TWOK - Although there appears to be lingering fondness for each other it doesn't look like Kirk and Carol Marcus are going to renew their relationship.
TVH - Kirk charms Gillian Taylor, but he doesn't really show her any real romantic or sexual interest.
TUC - Marta(?) plays on Kirk and he cagily plays along but with no real interest.
GEN - Does this really count for anything? Everything about the Nexus is made up and without substance. Antonia could be pretty much a figment of Kirk's imagination.
 
I did an episode-by-episode breakdown of this topic nearly twenty years ago. I'll try and dig it up...

Found it. Thank you, Wayback Machine...

The Truth About Captain Kirk

Time to nip this "Kirk got laid every week" nonsense in the bud.

We'll take this one episode at a time (we'll skip "The Cage" since Kirk wasn't even in that one), always asking the question, "Did Kirk get lucky?":

"Where No Man Has Gone Before" Within the story itself, nope. Brief reference to a "little blonde lab technician" way back at the Academy, later assumed to be Carol Marcus.

"The Corbomite Maneuver" Nope. In fact, Yeoman Rand seems to annoy him more than anything else.

"Mudd's Women" No. Eve pursues Kirk, Kirk doesn't accept, Eve takes up with Ben Childress.

"The Enemy Within" Close, but no cigar. His "dark half" attempted to rape Janice Rand, and ultimately failed in that, but since that really wasn't "our" Kirk, it doesn't count.

"The Man Trap" Nope, this was McCoy's turn at bat.

"The Naked Time" Despite admitting his deeply buried feelings for Janice Rand, he pretty much confirms what he said in "The Corbomite Maneuver", that he already has a female in his life and she's named Enterprise.

"Charlie X"
Nope.

"Balance of Terror" Nope.

"What Are Little Girls Made Of?" Passes made at the android Andrea were more along the lines of trying to disrupt Corby's perfect little world so he could attempt an escape, and nothing really happened anyway, so, in the end, nope. Most of the romantic fires were being stoked between Nurse Chapel and Corby.

"Dagger of the Mind" Initially, Kirk wanted nothing to do with Helen Noel. The frequently referenced Science Lab Christmas party only yields that the two of them danced and he talked about the stars. End of story on that end. Only after Dr. Adams takes Helen's innocent fantasy suggestion and induces strong romantic passions into Kirk's mind do we see any sparks, which only results in Kirk spouting off like a bad romance novel, until he's reminded that these feelings are the result of Adams' influence, at which point he's able to reassert control. So, basically, close but no cigar.

"Miri" Miri develops a crush on Kirk. Rand bemoans that Kirk never pays any attention to her legs. Kirk's too busy trying to save everyone's lives, including the other children, to even think about a roll in the hay. Nope.

"The Conscience of the King" Flirting and some kissing on the observation deck with Lenore, that's it, and it's debatable whether or not he was simply trying to get closer to Karidian. And since she turned out to be the killer of all those survivors, it was doomed anyway. This one goes as a "not really."

"The Galileo Seven" Get real.

"Court-Martial" Within the story itself, nope, except for that final kiss on the bridge. Areel Shaw had a relationship with Kirk "four years, seven months, and an odd number of days" ago, so this reference doesn't really count.

"The Menagerie" Only one extremely vague reference to Lt. Helen Johanssen ("She only mentioned that she knew you, sir") is the only thing close in this one.

"Shore Leave" Another one from the past, Ruth, apparently from back in his Academy days or thereabouts. Doesn't seem that much really happened within the story itself, unless you count her showing up again at the end (17 episodes in and we finally might actually have Kirk getting lucky? Not a good average for an alleged womanizer....)

"The Squire of Gothos" Hardly.

"Arena" I think Uhura was the only female in the whole bloody episode....

"The Alternative Factor" Nope.

"Tomorrow is Yesterday" Nope.

"The Return of the Archons" Nope.

"A Taste of Armageddon" Not even close.

"Space Seed" Khan got all the action in this one.

"This Side of Paradise" Spock's turn.

"The Devil in the Dark" Only female in the whole thing was the Horta. Nope.

"Errand of Mercy" 1st Klingon episode. Nope.

"The City on the Edge of Forever" Ah, yes, Edith Keeler. This was true love, kids. However, to set history straight, she had to die. Thus, the crux of the story. Whether or not Kirk got lucky is dependent on how easy you think Edith was (remember, she was an idealistic social worker, so how likely is it that she'd hop into bed with this handsome stranger?), so it's debatable how far this relationship actually went.

"Operation: Annihilate!" Nope.

That's 28 episodes so far, and by my count, Kirk got lucky, during the course of the series to this point, maybe twice. Second season, folks?

"Catspaw" The romantic action in this one lasted less than one scene, once Sylvia discovered that Kirk was only using her to save his men. Have to say "nope" on this one.

"Metamorphasis" Nope.

"Friday's Child" Nope.

"Who Mourns For Adonais?" Romantic tension was between Lt. Carolyn Polamas, Scotty, and Apollo. Kirk was strictly business.

"Amok Time" Nope.

"The Doomsday Machine" You must be kidding.

"Wolf In the Fold" He didn't even get a chance to hit on that waitress before Scotty was possessed by Redjac and knifed her. Nope.

"The Changeling" Puh-leeze....

"The Apple" Nope. That was Chekov getting hot with that yeoman.

"Mirror, Mirror" Marlena was the alternate Kirk's woman, and you have to play the cards you're dealt, right? Besides, nothing happened besides a very passionate kiss (too busy trying to prevent the Halkans from being wiped out, getting assassinated by their own crew, and somehow getting home).

"The Deadly Years" Another one from the past (Janet, "six years, four months, and an odd number of days" ago), with no action within the episode itself. Nope.

"I, Mudd" Nope.

"The Trouble With Tribbles" Nope.

"Bread And Circuses" Okay, we've got that slave girl, Drusilla. We now have our, maybe, third time in 43 episodes.

"Journey to Babel" Nope. Too busy bleeding.

"A Private Little War" Although Nona tried, with the help of the Mako root, that Mugato came along and interrupted things, so, in the end, nope.

"The Gamesters of Triskelion" I was about to say "probably yes" on this one, but then I remembered that Provider One had not yet selected a mate for Shanna, and even though Kirk was definitely in the running, he certainly wouldn't be allowed to jump the gun, so this one never really got going. Nope, sorry, Shanna.

"Obsession" Nope.

"The Immunity Syndrome" Nope.

"A Piece of the Action" Nope. Shoulder massage from Krako's moll doesn't count.

"By Any Other Name" Never did get beyond making out with Kelinda in the lounge, and that was done primarily to both distract Kelinda and drive Rojan completely nuts with jealousy. Doesn't really count.

"Return To Tomorrow" Sargon kissing Thelassa while in Kirk's and Mulhall's bodies, respectively, most certainly does not count.

"Patterns of Force" Nope.

"The Ultimate Computer" Not unless you count what Starfleet tried to do to Kirk careerwise.

"The Omega Glory" Nope.

"Assignment: Earth" Uh-uh.

So far, two seasons, 55 episodes, possibly three times, and only one of those can we point to with any degree of certainty ("Bread And Circuses").

Third Season...

"Spectre of the Gun" Nope. Chekov was getting close, though.

"Elaan of Troyius" Maybe. He was in her quarters a loooong time. We'll count this one as confirmed just for argument's sake (that makes two out of a possible four so far)

"The Paradise Syndrome" Well, Miramanee was pregnant, so that pretty much ends that discussion. Up to five, with only three confirmed.

"The Enterprise Incident" Nope. Now, as for Spock, that's another argument....

"And The Children Shall Lead" Nope.

"Spock's Brain" Didn't even hit on anybody.

"Is There In Truth No Beauty?" Tried to distract Dr. Jones with a walk in the arboretum, but that was it.

"The Empath" Nope. Too busy getting tortured.

"The Tholian Web" He was barely in this one.

"For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" Nope. McCoy, on the other hand, almost assuredly did (about time, too....)

"Day of the Dove" Nope.

"Plato's Stepchildren" Kirk being telekinetically forced to kiss Uhura doesn't even remotely count (especially when, if you look closely, their lips never really meet; that was the compromise position reached when it was time to film this scene, so they could have a way out in case of a backlash).

"Wink of an Eye" Now this one is another confirmed instance (We see Kirk sitting on the bed, putting his boots back on, while Deela is busy brushing her hair; it's still a mystery how this one slipped by the censors). We are now up to six possible, with four confirmed.

"That Which Survives" Nope. As for what Losira did to the Enterprise, well....

"Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" Nope.

"Whom Gods Destroy" Not exactly. Marta certainly was doing good at getting Kirk's interest up, until she pulled that knife on him. Kinda puts an end to things, doncha think?

"The Mark of Gideon" Yeah, I'll give ya this one, although I'm not willing to call this one confirmed. Kirk and Odonna certainly weren't leaving the bridge arm-in-arm to go check the antimatter flow regulators. That makes seven possible, four confirmed.

"The Lights of Zetar" Nope.

"The Cloud Minders" Nope.

"The Way To Eden" Even with a bunch of hippies on board, nope. Kirk was just too square, baby.

"Requiem For Methuselah" Hmm. I don't think this one ever progressed to the physical stage, if only because Kirk was too busy with the Enterprise crew being sick, so this gets a close, but not close enough.

"The Savage Curtain" Nope.

"All Our Yesterdays" Kirk, nope. Spock, yeah, baby, YEAH!!

"Turnabout Intruder" Maybe way back when Kirk and Janice Lester were dating, but within the story, nope.

So, out of 79 episodes, we have only seven possible instances, and only four of those can we count as confirmed.

Now, can we finally leave this horse buried?
 
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TMP - According to the novelization of the film one of the Starfleet officers killed in the transporter mishap was a (perhaps) former lover of Kirk's after the Enterprise returns from its 5-year mission, yet this isn't established or even referenced in the film.
Far beyond a mere "former lover," the person killed next to Commander Sonak was Admiral Lori Ciana, who for years was Jim Kirk's wife in all but name. Definitely one of Kirk's sex partners.
TWOK - Although there appears to be lingering fondness for each other it doesn't look like Kirk and Carol Marcus are going to renew their relationship.
Carol and Jim Kim produced a child together, so yet another one of Kirk's sex partners.

TVH - Kirk charms Gillian Taylor, but he doesn't really show her any real romantic or sexual interest.
One of the graphic novels strongly suggests that subsequent to the events of TVH, Kirk and Gillian have an affair. The novel open with Kirk and Gillian aboard a sailboat and they're more than friends.

(Non-canon) sex partners?

GEN - Does this really count for anything? Everything about the Nexus is made up and without substance. Antonia could be pretty much a figment of Kirk's imagination.
The movie (IMO) is showing Kirk's memories and not fantasies, events are juxtapositioned, but up through through the barn scene they actual happened to Kirk. Antonia was one of Kirk's sex partners.

:)
 
As much as I dislike this stereotype and agree with the original post, I think you will have to count any episode in which Kirk kisses or sweet talks a girl as contributing to creating that stereotype.

A non-Trek fan who's predisposed to the idea of Kirk the womanizer won't care if he was forced, or if it was an android or if he was just using the girl. They will see Kirk gissing another girl on Star Trek.
 
Definitions matter regardless of other people's misconceptions. If he doesn't actively pursue women for sole purpose of casual sex then he's not a womanizer.
 
If he doesn't actively pursue women for sole purpose of casual sex then he's not a womanizer.
Ultimately, things like "sole purpose" matter not in Kirk being a womanizer. Really comes down to if he had a high number of sex partners. Whether by way of relationships, casual encounters, circumstances, targets of opportunities, as part of a mission, regardless. If Kirk is getin' himself some it all on the scoreboard.

About the only sexual event that wouldn't count is if he were totally under alien control. Even Mirimonie (no I can't spell it) would count, because even with his memory lose, his personality was intact, and he was having (probably lot's of) sex with her.

:):):):)
 
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