Is ice a mineral?

[Trekker4747]

A mineral must meet these requirements:

• naturally occurring (not made by humans)
• inorganic (not produced by an organism)
• solid
• a limited range of chemical compositions
• ordered atomic structure

Naturally occurring ice such as snow, frozen lakes, stuff like that meets all of these requirements and, thus, can be considered a mineral.

But ice you make at home in your freezer is NOT a mineral since that isn't naturally occurring.

Isn't that a bit fucked up? It sort of suggests that the word "mineral" means nothing as in the case of an ice cube in your freezer and an ice floe in the arctic they're both funadmentally the same thing. Frozen water.

But because you had to put water in a tray and then into a machine that completely changes the entire classification of what it is? Doesn't it matter that the process by which the water became ice -being in an environment below 32-degrees- natural enough (regardless of how the environment got that way.)

I argue that ice made in your freezer IS a mineral. I mean, say I took a bottle of water with me on a drive some winter morning, leave the bottle in my car all day, and come back and the water is frozen.

Using the outlined circumstances is the water in that bottle a mineral?

Did it's freeing "occur naturally"? I mean, the water wouldn't be there had it not been through my actions.

 

[RoJoHen]

I think I'd prefer to argue than ice isn't a mineral at all...but I'm not really sure how.

Do any of the requirements for a mineral have anything to do with a standard temperature?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, ice is a mineral. So? It's just a classification. It isn't magically something else just because we call it a mineral. It just happens to meet the criteria.

 

[RoJoHen]

I feel like minerals should have some underlying purpose. They should do...mineral...things...

 

[Trekker4747]

I think I'd prefer to argue than ice isn't a mineral at all...but I'm not really sure how.

Do any of the requirements for a mineral have anything to do with a standard temperature?

The requirements are as I outlined above. I could see argument that ice is not a mineral because of how it is used, though.

Yeah, ice is a mineral. So? It's just a classification. It isn't magically something else just because we call it a mineral. It just happens to meet the criteria.

But the classification of it changes depending on how it was frozen. So it's "magically" something else, according to science, when it's frozen by human actions rather than frozen by nature.

I feel like minerals should have some underlying purpose. They should do...mineral...things...

Sort of my thoughts. Of course some scientific line has to be drawn but when I think of "minerals" I think of ground up rocks and stuff that are in my food or a slab of mountain that makes up a nifty counter top.

Not the stuff that forms on my car overnight on a cold morning.

I'd almost say the third criteria would need to be tweaked to "solid at room temperature."

 

[PurpleBuddha]

But the classification of it changes depending on how it was frozen. So it's "magically" something else, according to science, when it's frozen by human actions rather than frozen by nature.

Is this really so hard? If I freeze some lake water in my freezer and that same lake freezes over night the difference between the two is that one was frozen in my freezer and one was frozen by the temperature outside. Simply classifying something in a different category does not change its physical make up at all.

 

[sojourner]

Ice is a state.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Sure, it would be an oxide mineral I suppose.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Some of the text in the original post is remarkably similar to this article:

Is Water a Mineral -- Is Ice a Mineral?

 

[scotpens]

It’s like asking whether the tomato is a fruit or a vegetable. Depends on whether you ask a botanist or a cook.

 

[jgalley]

I suggest those saying ice is not a mineral, google it at the very least and ideally do research.

it's a fact, ice is a mineral while liquid water is not.

research before we make false statements.

for instance.

http://geology.com/articles/water-mineral/

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I suggest those saying ice is not a mineral, google it at the very least and ideally do research.

it's a fact, ice is a mineral while liquid water is not.

research before we make false statements.

for instance.

http://geology.com/articles/water-mineral/

Dude -- I already provided that reference.

Read thread before we act high and mighty.

 

[Trekker4747]

And my argument is that the word "mineral" means nothing if it's entire use hinges on whether or not a person acted upon something. Water frozen in a freezer = not a mineral, it didn't get naturally made (someone had to put it in the freezer, and the cold of the freezer is unnatural) water frozen outside = a mineral. The ice got made by a natural process.

Seems to me that there's no meaningful difference between ice in my freezer and ice in a lake during winter. Both are solid water made by cold temperatures. How the temperature got cold shouldn't be relevant.

 

[BillJ]

I'd say no, regardless of what the geology site says.

The word "mineral" is used by geologists for a group of naturally occurring crystalline substances. Gold, pyrite, quartz, calcite and fluorite are all examples of "minerals".

None of these require a continued "idealized" ecological state to exist after formation.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

And my argument is that the word "mineral" means nothing if it's entire use hinges on whether or not a person acted upon something. Water frozen in a freezer = not a mineral, it didn't get naturally made (someone had to put it in the freezer, and the cold of the freezer is unnatural) water frozen outside = a mineral. The ice got made by a natural process.

Seems to me that there's no meaningful difference between ice in my freezer and ice in a lake during winter. Both are solid water made by cold temperatures. How the temperature got cold shouldn't be relevant.

I'm not sure but I think when it says 'naturally occurring' it means as long as you can find it in nature then all instances are acceptable. So ice formed in your freezer isn't excluded for being formed artificially as long as you can find some ice in nature, which you can.

 

[Trekker4747]

I've always seen it as saying "not made with human intervention" and the "ice made in a freezer" argument is hardly one made on that one linked website. It's an argument I've heard and seen frequently.

For my money, I'd say "at room temperature" or at the very least by a "natural process." If the former ice is not a mineral since ice cannot exist at room temperatures in the latter ice -no matter where it is made" is a mineral since the process of freezing (whether outside or in a refrigerator) is a natural process.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I'm not sure but I think when it says 'naturally occurring' it means as long as you can find it in nature then all instances are acceptable. So ice formed in your freezer isn't excluded for being formed artificially as long as you can find some ice in nature, which you can.

This is my interpretation as well. Otherwise, you'll get that industrial diamonds, and all other crystalline substances produced with human intervention, aren't actually minerals. Which kind of seems counter-intuitive. Which is ok, I suppose, since it's just nomenclature, but still weird.

 

[Gov Kodos]

And my argument is that the word "mineral" means nothing if it's entire use hinges on whether or not a person acted upon something. Water frozen in a freezer = not a mineral, it didn't get naturally made (someone had to put it in the freezer, and the cold of the freezer is unnatural) water frozen outside = a mineral. The ice got made by a natural process.

Seems to me that there's no meaningful difference between ice in my freezer and ice in a lake during winter. Both are solid water made by cold temperatures. How the temperature got cold shouldn't be relevant.

I'm not sure but I think when it says 'naturally occurring' it means as long as you can find it in nature then all instances are acceptable. So ice formed in your freezer isn't excluded for being formed artificially as long as you can find some ice in nature, which you can.

Silicon, for instance, has to be man made since it's kind of hard to find in nature on Earth where it has typically combined with oxygen. It is an artificial mineral. Gold, quartz, etc all have melting points and can be found in liquids such as magma. They aren't minerals in their liquid state any more than liquid H2O is. H2O can be found in naturally crystallized form just as gold or quartz can be.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

This discussion reminds me of the one about whether Pluto is a planet. Perhaps the question we should ask is why humans feel the need to shoehorn everything in the universe into categories, and why these categories never seem to be perfect. Perhaps such an inherent drive for reduction to ideal Platonic forms is akin to the religious urge, is driven by brain structure, and therefore, ultimately, is an expression of genetics.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That's rather reductionist itself.