In The Flesh Doesn't Make A Whole Lot Of Sense

[The Wormhole]

After re-watching In the Flesh (the season 5 episode featuring the Species 8472 training camp modeled after Starfleet Command) remembered nothing really makes sense. Let's start:

-Where did Species 8472 get their information from? It couldn't have been from Voyager's database, since they didn't know Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant cut off from Starfleet. But then, they couldn't have actually have gone to Earth since if they did, they would know that Starfleet had changed to the gray-shouldered First Contact uniforms and the impostors should have been wearing those. Same logic can be applied against the idea of them learning of Starfleet and Earth from the Borg, since the Borg would also know of the uniform change.

-If they are trying to create a accurate depiction of Starfleet Command, than why did their leader take on the guise of Boothby? Does Species 8472 actually think the gardener has authority over all Starfleet personnel?

-Likewise, what's with all the Ferengi wearing Starfleet uniforms? There's only one Ferengi serving in Starfleet, so someone's going to notice a couple of dozen Ferengi showing in Starfleet uniforms.

-Why are they even going through this song and dance of infiltrating Earth posing as Starfleet officers? Their bio-ships can destroy entire planets when they swarm together. If they believe the Federation poses that much of a threat, why not just launch a direct assault and destroy the Federation's key planets? Or does the race that believes our galaxy must be purged of life actually believe in the conventions of honourable warfare and have no desire to kill innocent non-combatant civilians?

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

....and that's where 8472 lost all credibility as a threat to anybody. The basic plot of the episode - a strange alien conspiracy opening the possibility of an incursion into the highest echelon of Starfleet, semi-permanent shapeshifting, everything being 'almost, but not quite, entirely unlike Starfleet' - was great. The fact that they turned out to be 8472 made it lame.
Having said that, maybe the 8472, having killed everyone and everything else in Fluidic Space were bored with their old tactics and wanted a challenge. You know, try something new.

 

[exodus]

I assumed they got their jumbled info from when they read Tuvok & Kes' minds.
I assumed since Kes & Tuvok's minds are alien to them, the info wasn't 100% clear. Just like Kes couldn't completely make out their thoughts as well.
I figured the weapon Janeway/Borg created against them caught them by surprise. So creating a spy type scenario to infiltrate Starfleet would be a way to keep a "man" inside so they won't be caught off guard again or sabotage any plans there of.
Like Seven said, "Species 8472x is highly devious and will find the quickest way to win."
Why waste your army if you can out smart them?

Same thing with Changlings.
If they can become anything they wish and control a vast army, why send spies to Starfleet?
Just like Changlings ideas, it's best to have one up on your enemy.

 

[Anwar]

The reason they went through all the trouble of infiltrating Starfleet was because they were terrified that someone could actually fight back and hurt them. The assumed that all of Starfleet had this weapon and a frontal attack would fail even if they tried to blow up a planet.

 

[KukalakÄ…]

In The Flesh Doesn't Make A Whole Lot Of Sense

You seem to have found the main concept behind a lot of Voyager episodes. Mating Janeway/Paris lizards, anyone?

 

[Anwar]

Well, when Braga explained his original idea for that episode some things DID make sense but it just didn't survive transition to the screen.

 

[ChaosAngel]

Voyager is like candy, it doesnt have to make sense to be deliciously awesome. So stop thinking and just enjoy.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

In The Flesh Doesn't Make A Whole Lot Of Sense

You seem to have found the main concept behind a lot of Voyager episodes. Mating Janeway/Paris lizards, anyone?

That being said...

I felt 8472 has far superior travel technology and had been to the Alpha Quadrant on recon missions since encountering Voyager.

They had been seriously whooped by Janeway, and I think it made them think twice about just running in with their guns blazing. They didn't want to risk destroying their universe while trying to take out ours.

Boothby was at the Academy grounds and was a person a lot of higher up officers knew and took advice from, but he was out of sight. It's a good hiding place if you want to control things but be unseen.

 

[froot]

I suppose none of you have played Star Trek Online, then?

I believe the 8472/Undine encountered in this episode are merely a small faction, or, at least, that is what the game implies.

 

[The Wormhole]

Same thing with Changlings.
If they can become anything they wish and control a vast army, why send spies to Starfleet?
Just like Changlings ideas, it's best to have one up on your enemy.

Actually, the Founders were manipulating the Alpha Quadrant's powers, trying to weaken them so that when Dominion forces arrived, they'd have an easier victory. That makes more sense than infiltrating an enemy you believe poses a threat to your existence when you have the means to completely obliterate them instead.

I felt 8472 has far superior travel technology and had been to the Alpha Quadrant on recon missions since encountering Voyager.

Thing is, if they had done that, than they would have known about the First Contact style uniforms, and everyone in the training camp should have been wearing those.

On a similar note, are the rank insignia used among Voyager's Maquis crew used elsewhere in Starfleet, or are they just unique to Voyager's Maquis crew? If they are unique to the Maquis on Voyager, than why didn't anyone comment on the unusual insignia on Chakotay's collar?

 

[kimc]

On a similar note, are the rank insignia used among Voyager's Maquis crew used elsewhere in Starfleet, or are they just unique to Voyager's Maquis crew? If they are unique to the Maquis on Voyager, than why didn't anyone comment on the unusual insignia on Chakotay's collar?

Interesting question.

 

[Anwar]

That makes more sense than infiltrating an enemy you believe poses a threat to your existence when you have the means to completely obliterate them instead.

Like I said, they were terrified that a frontal assault would only seal their fates together and figured a stealthier approach would be more effective. They didn't know Voyager was the only ship with the nano-weapon.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

If I recall correctly, the DS9/Voyager uniforms and the First Contact uniforms were worn at the same time during the movie. So, the uniform issue shouldn't really be that big of a deal.

Also, 8472 more than likely scanned Voyager. In doing so, they would have come to know about the different pips

 

[Timo]

Likewise, what's with all the Ferengi wearing Starfleet uniforms? There's only one Ferengi serving in Starfleet, so someone's going to notice a couple of dozen Ferengi showing in Starfleet uniforms.

Why should there only be one Ferengi serving? Nog claimed he'd be the first, and Dax seemed to agree, in "Heart of Stone" - but others might have quickly followed, including people who could skip the Academy (or most of it) because they already had comprehensive military training. Although that's not necessary in this case, as all the Ferengi we saw wore cadet uniforms IIRC.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[exodus]

Actually, the Founders were manipulating the Alpha Quadrant's powers, trying to weaken them so that when Dominion forces arrived, they'd have an easier victory. That makes more sense than infiltrating an enemy you believe poses a threat to your existence when you have the means to completely obliterate them instead.

Yeah but so did the Dominion.
They had superior tech., an unlimited army & the quickening virus. If the Founder never ordered the stand down, there is no way the Federation would still be around.
The Founders believed all humanoids possed a threat to their existance too.

 

[The Wormhole]

If I recall correctly, the DS9/Voyager uniforms and the First Contact uniforms were worn at the same time during the movie. So, the uniform issue shouldn't really be that big of a deal.

No, you're thinking of Generations where the old TNG uniforms and the DS9/Voyager uniforms were worn at the same time. First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis show all Starfleet personnel wearing the gray shoulder uniforms.

Also, after they started wearing the First Contact uniforms on DS9, there were a few officers who continued wearing the old TNG uniforms (Rapture, Tears of the Prophets).

Regardless, another thing to consider is that even when the DS9/Voyager uniforms were being used, they were not worn on Earth. Sisko even wore the old TNG uniform when he returned to Earth in Homefront/Paradise Lost.