How old was Spock?
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Did they directly reference his age in 'The Cage?' I suppose one would have to work backward from another TOS reference based on how far back we can suppose 'The Cage' to be to arrive at an original non-chronology based answer.
But we can look at MA and tell you that
But we can look at MA and tell you that
22. It was 2254 and he was born in 2232.
Oh, Memory Alpha's Spock article. Sorry, I thought I linked it.
It looks like they based the age estimate on 'Yesteryear' from TAS - Spock being seven in 2239, having traveled back 30 years from 2269. There still seems to be some wiggle room there, though, and I don't recall what the 'Star Trek Chronology' suggested. There may have been a TNG reference I don't remember, too. I suppose Spock might also need to be at least 22 in 2254 to have graduated the Academy to be on the Enterprise at the time.
FWIW, Leonard Nimoy was born in 1931, so 2231 might be a fair guess, too.
It looks like they based the age estimate on 'Yesteryear' from TAS - Spock being seven in 2239, having traveled back 30 years from 2269. There still seems to be some wiggle room there, though, and I don't recall what the 'Star Trek Chronology' suggested. There may have been a TNG reference I don't remember, too. I suppose Spock might also need to be at least 22 in 2254 to have graduated the Academy to be on the Enterprise at the time.
FWIW, Leonard Nimoy was born in 1931, so 2231 might be a fair guess, too.
^^^
Brilliant. Thanks for pointing out the obvious reality I couldn't see.
Thanx, and yea, tat makes some sense. I've heard how the stardate system has a correlation to actual years. Not sure about that source either.
Brilliant. Thanks for pointing out the obvious reality I couldn't see. Thanx, and yea, tat makes some sense. I've heard how the stardate system has a correlation to actual years. Not sure about that source either.
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The Okuda Chronology conjectured a 2230 birthdate for Spock. Memory Alpha's 2232 estimate is based on the rather illogical assumption that a Vulcan year is exactly equal to an Earth year (because in "Yesteryear" he explicitly said "thirty Vulcan years past").
However, the Okudas' conjecture doesn't really work either, since if Vulcan is a planet of 40 Eridani A (which ENT: "Home" pretty much confirmed by stating it was 16 light-years from Earth), then it would have to be around 0.61 AU from its star (give or take) to be habitable, and that would make its year somewhere around 203 days, plus or minus a few dozen. So if Spock was 37 Vulcan years old in "Yesteryear," that would've made him no more than 20 in Earth years. But that's clearly inconsistent with "The Menagerie" taking place 16 years earlier.
Which just reinforces my belief that numbers in Star Trek are generally best ignored.
However, the Okudas' conjecture doesn't really work either, since if Vulcan is a planet of 40 Eridani A (which ENT: "Home" pretty much confirmed by stating it was 16 light-years from Earth), then it would have to be around 0.61 AU from its star (give or take) to be habitable, and that would make its year somewhere around 203 days, plus or minus a few dozen. So if Spock was 37 Vulcan years old in "Yesteryear," that would've made him no more than 20 in Earth years. But that's clearly inconsistent with "The Menagerie" taking place 16 years earlier.
Which just reinforces my belief that numbers in Star Trek are generally best ignored.
Generally agreed, Christopher that such references need to be read with a lot of salt sprinkled on - at least when it comes to differentiating between Earth years/days and alien years/days.
On the issue of being old enough/young enough to be Amanda's son: Jane Wyatt was born in 1910. Nimoy in 1931. So Nimoy is technically young enough to be Wyatt's son. I'd be happy to assume Amanda was born in 2210 and Spock in 2231.
Amanda's MA article notes that a deleted line from 'Journey To Babel' suggests Sarek and Amanda married in 2230, which is rather interesting given how much TOS tried to avoid specific dates. Perhaps this line said they had been married for 38 years, to coincide with 'Journey To Babel' occurring in 2268?
On the issue of being old enough/young enough to be Amanda's son: Jane Wyatt was born in 1910. Nimoy in 1931. So Nimoy is technically young enough to be Wyatt's son. I'd be happy to assume Amanda was born in 2210 and Spock in 2231.
Amanda's MA article notes that a deleted line from 'Journey To Babel' suggests Sarek and Amanda married in 2230, which is rather interesting given how much TOS tried to avoid specific dates. Perhaps this line said they had been married for 38 years, to coincide with 'Journey To Babel' occurring in 2268?
^^^
A deleted line from the original script? Wow, fascinating.
Oops! I was sure Spock stated "This is 13 years ago" in 'The Menagerie'. Thus making him something like 35 in 'The Menagerie', more or less. Though, yea, Vulcan or Earth years?!?!?
Oh, I didn't know an ENT ep did that. I've always liked that idea, it's an old one but a good one.
A deleted line from the original script? Wow, fascinating.
Oops! I was sure Spock stated "This is 13 years ago" in 'The Menagerie'. Thus making him something like 35 in 'The Menagerie', more or less. Though, yea, Vulcan or Earth years?!?!?
Oh, I didn't know an ENT ep did that. I've always liked that idea, it's an old one but a good one.
I'll do my best from now on.
It doesn't really matter how old Spock is, because he is a young Vulcan for a long time. Technically, Spock would be considered the "youngest" person on the Enterprise (even counting Chekov) because Vulcans can live to be 250 years old.
So middle age for a Vulcan would be about 125 years old (hence when McCoy says to Sarak in "Journey to Babel": "Isn't it unusual for a Vulcan to retire at your age? You're only 102 (102.437, precisely).
Just giving you guys something to chew on.
So middle age for a Vulcan would be about 125 years old (hence when McCoy says to Sarak in "Journey to Babel": "Isn't it unusual for a Vulcan to retire at your age? You're only 102 (102.437, precisely).
Just giving you guys something to chew on.
Good point, treklover. That begs the question - do Vulcans consider each phase of their life to be longer, or do they just have a substantially longer middle-age and 'autumn'? I would think the latter - they reach maturity at about the same time humans do, and it's the rest of their lives that is more stretched.
Along the same lines, I've always wondered how we know that the childhood of Vulcans and humans is similar. Is it actually stated in the canon, or are years assumed based on Nimoy's age at the filming of TOS?
To me, it seems like they should spend more time reaching maturity if they do indeed live so long. That doesn't seem the case with most Star Trek aliens though. We do know Vulcans take a long time reaching sexual maturity, based on the fact that Spock was far enough in his career to be a first officer long before he endured Pon Farr.
To me, it seems like they should spend more time reaching maturity if they do indeed live so long. That doesn't seem the case with most Star Trek aliens though. We do know Vulcans take a long time reaching sexual maturity, based on the fact that Spock was far enough in his career to be a first officer long before he endured Pon Farr.
137 years old. byt the end of TNG run.
^^^
While my answer was a bit light hearted, I also wanted to remind people that Spock is half human. So his mothers age needs to be factored into any guess on how old he is.
But that only tells us something about half-Vulcans. And even then, it's far from a solid datapoint, because during his second take at life on Planet Genesis in ST3, Spock has his first bout of Pon Farr while his body looks teenagish. He probably only barely avoided his earlier bouts during his first life, thanks to a precious biochemical balance that was toppled the second time around.
We don't have good data on full Vulcans. Tuvok was in deep lust and full of jealousy in the backstory of "Gravity", at an unknown age that corresponded to what on a human would be an early teenage body - but whether that counted as Pon Farr was not specified.
OTOH, Tuvok is a good example of a full Vulcan staying youthful well into his second century; he looked much younger in VOY than the factually somewhat younger Sarek did in TOS. Perhaps there was some sort of a "geriatric gene" in the Sarek family?
Timo Saloniemi
By Nemesis he would be about about 145 give or take a year.
Thirteen years before "The Menagerie" is sixteen years before "Yesteryear."
Ages can be somewhat nebulous, but wasn't the trend to have the character approximately the same age as the actor was?
Or fifteen-plus, by stardates - which would have the TAS episode take place somewhere between "The Empath" and "Let That Be". It's one of those TAS episodes that would have no real trouble fitting in; it doesn't even feature the slightly altered bridge, let alone Arex or M'Ress.
As for the length of the Vulcan year, it might be a unit of time based on seasons. And those need not depend on the time it takes for the planet to get around its star; indeed, if there's funny stuff going on between Vulcan and its mean sister T'Khut, that's a more likely dictator of the observable cycles on Vulcan than 40 Eri A is... So we have some latitude there.
Timo Saloniemi
I prefer it that way, myself.
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