How long before "The Man Trap" did McCoy know Kirk?

[J.T.B.]

I go with he met Kirk at the academy. But that's cos I've always loved the idea of academy prequels since I heard of that 90's academy movie that never happened.

Because god forbid someone enter Starfleet by a different path, or that people meet at various points in their careers, like real people do!

Presuming that McCoy entered the Academy at the typical age. I've always interpreted other material, like TMoST, to be more indicative that his marriage had failed, he had an iffy relationship with his daughter, and he wanted a radical break with his old life, choosing to enter Starfleet at an older age than most.

That is what TMoST says, but nothing about the academy. It says he studied space medicine before volunteering for Starfleet. McCoy's unfamiliarity with academy terminology in "The Ultimate Computer" weighs against him attending. There is no reason a practicing medical doctor would have to attend the academy at all, unless an officer familiarization course or somesuch is also held there. Very, very few military physicians are educated at their countries' service academies.

Another indication of McCoy's later career entry may be his rank; Exeter's CMO seems in the same age range as McCoy but is a full commander. The same could apply to Scotty BTW.

 

[Hofner]

McCoy is about ten years older than Kirk, they wouldn't have been at the academy together.
I've always assumed they got to be friends before Kirk got the Enterprise and Kirk got him assigned. I never really worried about the details.

Also "The Ultimate Computer" clearly implied that McCoy didn't go to the academy when he was ignorant of what is evidently a well known sayin at Starfleet Academy, 'Captain Dunsel'.
Yes, I know people argue that scene is not 100% proof that Dr. McCoy didn't go to the academy. But I know the assumption of the people who created the show and the characters was that like in the real life navy, physicians don't go through the Naval Academy except maybe some kind of OCS training.

I haven't seen Star Trek '09 but if it established McCoy did go to the academy, well that's fine, it's *that infamous five letter 'c' word* but I can talk about TOS as part of the franchise or as a standalone. In a sense, TOS really has nothing to do with what came later.

Robert

 

[Hofner]

@ J.T.B.

Oof, you beat me to the "Ultimate Computer punch. I bow to your superior posting speed.

Robert

 

[NCC-73515]

Yup. Thing #1,000 the JJTrilogy forgot or didn't care about. Seeing McCoy in the Kobayashi Maru test really bugged me.

They explained it: He joined Starfleet after he lost everything in his divorce

 

[BillJ]

Yup. Thing #1,000 the JJTrilogy forgot or didn't care about. Seeing McCoy in the Kobayashi Maru test really bugged me.

Did it bug you in The Wrath of Khan?

 

[F. King Daniel]

McCoy is about ten years older than Kirk, they wouldn't have been at the academy together.
I've always assumed they got to be friends before Kirk got the Enterprise and Kirk got him assigned. I never really worried about the details.

6 years according to the official Trek Chronology. And not everyone joins the academy at the same age, they sign up when the urge strikes.

So no reason at all they couldn't have been at the academy together.

 

[Phaser Two]

They explained it: He joined Starfleet after he lost everything in his divorce

Ah. Enh, thanks but I won't apologize for not remembering that from three movies that have become utterly forgettable. Honestly, I have no desire to watch either of the first two at all. If I did watch any of them it would probably be Beyond.

Did it bug you in The Wrath of Khan?

Did it bother me that he was part of the training crew, teaching? Sort of, yeah, actually. But not as much as seeing him man a bridge station or whatever he was doing in 2009. Silly.

 

[Paul755]

I always assumed Kirk and McCoy knew each other from a previous assignment.

Like they served together aboard a different ship and when Kirk got the Enterprise he requested him transferred over as CMO. Never really thought academy until they went that direction in the JJ films.

 

[Henoch]

First of all, the JJ film was an alternate timeline, so, things that happened in the film did not necessarily happen in TOS. Assuming a similar divorce situation for McCoy in both timelines, McCoy is already a MD (8 years of college). In ST:2009, his divorce happens when NuKirk is about 22 having not attending Starfleet Academy as a young man. If the divorce is the same as in the original timeline, McCoy could have joined Starfleet as a MD, which if similar to today's U.S. Coast Guard, he would only need to attend Officer Candidate School (OCS):

(from Wiki) In addition to the Academy, prospective officers, who already hold a college degree, may enter the Coast Guard through Officer Candidate School (OCS), also located at the Coast Guard Academy. OCS is a 17-week course of instruction that prepares candidates to serve effectively as officers in the Coast Guard. In addition to indoctrinating students into a military lifestyle, OCS provides a wide range of highly technical information necessary to perform the duties of a Coast Guard officer.

Graduates of OCS are usually commissioned as ensigns, but some with advanced graduate degrees may enter as lieutenants (junior grade) or lieutenants. Graduating OCS officers entering active duty are required to serve a minimum of three years, while graduating reserve officers are required to serve four years. Graduates may be assigned to a cutter, flight training, a staff job, or an operations ashore billet.

The Starfleet OCS equivalent could be part of Starfleet Academy where Doctor McCoy could have attended the 17-week course while Jim Kirk also attended as either a student or more likely, one of his instructors (i.e. Lt. Jim Kirk, WNMHGB). At this point, Kirk would be about 22 and McCoy about 28. Would they become life-long friends at this point? Probably not, but they could build a professional relationship. As for McCoy's previous Starfleet service record, from Court Martial:

SHAW: I now call Doctor McCoy to the stand.
COMPUTER: Service rank, Lieutenant Commander. Position, Ship's Surgeon. Current assignment, USS Enterprise. Commendations, Legion of Honour. Awards of valour. Decorated by Starfleet surgeons.
SHAW: Doctor, you are, on the record, an expert in psychology, especially space psychology. Patterns which develop in the close quarters of a ship during long voyages in deep space.

So, could McCoy achieve his rank and back history in 11 years? I think it totally within the realm of belief. One, McCoy starts as an exceptional medical doctor. Two, he joins Starfleet in 2255 (due to a traumatic divorce, he wants to get off Earth), attends OCS at Starfleet Academy and is commissioned as an Lieutenant. Three, conducts and later heads up scientific/medical missions including setting up hospitals to various primitive planets (like Capella Four) and/or gets assigned to medical departments on Starships. Four, somewhere along the way and before the Capella Four mission, he gets promoted to Lt. Commander. Five, shortly after the Capella Four mission, he is assigned CMO on the Enterprise. Now, if Kirk met McCoy at Starfleet Academy and if he had the choice to pick his CMO, then Kirk may have indeed requested McCoy. It's possible.

 

[MAGolding]

...

Another indication of McCoy's later career entry may be his rank; Exeter's CMO seems in the same age range as McCoy but is a full commander. The same could apply to Scotty BTW.

I do no tthink there is much evidence that Scotty entered Starfleet at an older age than normal.

In TNG "Relics":

PICARD: There's one in the Fleet museum, but then of course, this is your Enterprise?
SCOTT: I actually served on two. This was the first. She was also the first ship I ever served on as Chief Engineer. You know, I served aboard eleven ships. Freighters, cruisers, starships, but this is the only one I think of. The only one I miss.

Cruisers could be the equivalent of navy cruisers or mabye commerical cruise ships, and freighters could have been operated by starfleet or by commercial shipping companies.

In TOS "Operation - Annihilate!":

SPOCK: Planet development is normal, Captain. Originally colonised as a freighting-line base in this area.
SCOTT: Aye, they make regular trips from here carrying supplies to the asteroid belt for the miners and bringing cargo out. I've made the run a couple of times myself as an engineering advisor.

So Scott may have made the Deneva-asteroid belt run on commercial feighters. But his postion of "engineering advisor" indicates he might have been a Starfleet advisor instead of a member of the freighter's crew.

So there are some indications that Scott could have been a commercial engineering officer before joining Starfleet.

But in TNG "Relics" there are 5 statements that Scott was in the Jenolan's transporter buffer for 75 years and one that he was in it for 80 years.

PICARD: How are you feeling?
SCOTT: I don't know. How am I feeling?
CRUSHER: Other than a couple of bumps and bruises, I'd say you feel fine for a man of a hundred and forty seven.
SCOTT: I don't feel a day over a hundred and twenty.

147 minus 75 or 80 equals 67 to 72, Scott's possible age range when he put himself in the transporter buffer. Scott says:

SCOTT: I was a Starfleet engineer for fifty two years, Mister La Forge. I think I'm still useful.

Thus Scott would proably have first become a Starfleet engineer aged about 15 to 20, which desn't seem older than normal.

 

[johnnybear]

I cringe whenever I try to envision Dr. Piper in McCoy’s place for the whole series duration. I believe it was either Solow or Justman who said that actor Paul Fix just didn’t display any enthusiasm for his role.

If you think Paul Fix was bad here just wait until you watch Battlestar Galactica's Take The Celestra!!!! His role as Commander Kronos is a blast to see as he never breaks a smile once!!!! Now maybe he just didn't like science fiction much and preferred the hot plains of westerns?
JB

 

[Timo]

I guess this is the most relevant bit of "Corbomite" in terms of the argument:

McCoy: "Your men are tired."
Kirk: "Captain's quarters. Aren't you the one who always says a little suffering is good for the soul?"
McCoy: "I never say that."
(Bailey: "This is the Bridge. Prepare for simulated attack.")
McCoy: "I'm especially worried about Bailey. Navigator's position's rough enough for a seasoned man."
Kirk: "I think he'll cut it."
McCoy: "Oh? How so sure? Because you spotted something you liked in him, something familiar, like yourself say about, oh, eleven years ago?"
(Bailey: "On the double, Deck Five! Give me a green light.")
Kirk: "Why, Doctor, you been reading your textbooks again?"
McCoy: "I don't need textbooks to know you could've promoted him too fast. Listen to that voice."

The bold parts of the banter make the less sense, the shorter time the men have known each other. And what would be the point of the "oh, 11 years ago" thing unless McCoy were referring to a specific moment in Kirk's life well known to him (and indeed with Kirk well knowing that McCoy well knows, this suggesting they both were there)? If McCoy were merely insinuating that Kirk was that much older than Bailey, surely he'd not assume Kirk knew Bailey's exact age, and would instead say "oh, a dozen years ago" or something like that.

Incidentally, nice that the banter touches upon McCoy's textbooks on space psychology, as we later learn his specialty in "Space Seed"... But Kirk jabbing McCoy about this would be quite likely if the Doctor were new to the ship and to Kirk, and this bit of information had been on top of the files Kirk just read to familiarize himself with the newcomer. Old friends might have better things to needle each other over.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Canonically: We'll probably never know with any precision. But definitely WNM came well before MT.

Novelverse: It's been a few years since I read E:TFA, but I'm pretty sure that establishes a lot of the timeline of the early Kirk/McCoy relationship. And I believe several novels (and perhaps a few short stories) establish some details of McCoy's less-than-amicable divorce.

Abramsverse: It's all there, on-screen.

 

[Henoch]

The bold parts of the banter make the less sense, the shorter time the men have known each other. And what would be the point of the "oh, 11 years ago" thing unless McCoy were referring to a specific moment in Kirk's life well known to him (and indeed with Kirk well knowing that McCoy well knows, this suggesting they both were there)? If McCoy were merely insinuating that Kirk was that much older than Bailey, surely he'd not assume Kirk knew Bailey's exact age, and would instead say "oh, a dozen years ago" or something like that.

Great catch. The 11 years ago comment reinforces that they met 11 years ago when Kirk was 22 years old. Where was Lt. Kirk at 22 years old? Probably instructing at Starfleet Academy (per WNMHGB). Why/How did Kirk and McCoy meet? Because Kirk was his instructor at OCS held at Starfleet Academy. Why do I rule out a social setting? Because according to Gary Mitchell, "Hey man, I remember you back at the Academy. A stack of books with legs. The first thing I ever heard from an upperclassman was, watch out for Lieutenant Kirk. In his class, you either think or sink." <Takes Victory Lap.>

 

[Greg Cox]

By The Wrath of Khan, McCoy knows all about Kirk's past with Carol Marcus, but I suppose Kirk could have confided to McCoy about that any time over their long friendship.

FYI: Speaking of Paul Fix, SVENGOOLIE is showing NIGHT OF THE LEPUS this coming Saturday, which features both Kelly and Paul Fix in the cast.

 

[Henoch]

By The Wrath of Khan, McCoy knows all about Kirk's past with Carol Marcus, but I suppose Kirk could have confided to McCoy about that any time over their long friendship.

Another great catch. The timing pretty much cements Carol Marcus was the little blond technician Gary Mitchell aimed his way at about the same time McCoy met Kirk. They get serious; she gets pregnant and tells Kirk to take a hike which he reluctantly does.

 

[Poltargyst]

If you think Paul Fix was bad here just wait until you watch Battlestar Galactica's Take The Celestra!!!! His role as Commander Kronos is a blast to see as he never breaks a smile once!!!! Now maybe he just didn't like science fiction much and preferred the hot plains of westerns?
JB

Hah! I just did a rewatch of Battlestar Galactica. I remember that episode and didn't realize it was him!

 

[Albertese]

In the novel The Autobiography of James T. Kirk, Kirk's first command was an old Baton Rouge cruiser which he took command of when his son, David, was a kid. McCoy was recently assigned as the CMO and (as I recall) they didn't get along much at first, but then Carol Marcus came aboard for a moment. She was transferring to a new job on another planet and Kirk's ship was assigned to take her and her son. But she came aboard for just a few minutes to tell Kirk to his face that she didn't want him to have a relationship with his son, feeling that Kirk had made it clear that he had no interest in being a father. Then she left, taking a different ship to her destination. McCoy senses what's up and then he and Kirk bond over the fact that they both have estranged children they never see (McCoy's daughter Joanna).

Then after Dr. Piper retired, Kirk made sure McCoy was assigned to the Enterprise.

Not canon, but it's an interesting take on it.

--Alex

 

[MAGolding]

I guess this is the most relevant bit of "Corbomite" in terms of the argument:



The bold parts of the banter make the less sense, the shorter time the men have known each other. And what would be the point of the "oh, 11 years ago" thing unless McCoy were referring to a specific moment in Kirk's life well known to him (and indeed with Kirk well knowing that McCoy well knows, this suggesting they both were there)? If McCoy were merely insinuating that Kirk was that much older than Bailey, surely he'd not assume Kirk knew Bailey's exact age, and would instead say "oh, a dozen years ago" or something like that.

....
Timo Saloniemi

Great catch. The 11 years ago comment reinforces that they met 11 years ago when Kirk was 22 years old. Where was Lt. Kirk at 22 years old? Probably instructing at Starfleet Academy (per WNMHGB). Why/How did Kirk and McCoy meet? Because Kirk was his instructor at OCS held at Starfleet Academy. Why do I rule out a social setting? Because according to Gary Mitchell, "Hey man, I remember you back at the Academy. A stack of books with legs. The first thing I ever heard from an upperclassman was, watch out for Lieutenant Kirk. In his class, you either think or sink." <Takes Victory Lap.>

I strongly doubt that Kirk was a lieutenant teaching at Starfleet Academy 11 years before "The Corbomite Maneuver".

I have worked out what seems to be the simpliest and most natural order of events in Kirk's Starfleet career, whichinfolds like that of a modern naval officer except with faster promotion than usual.

15 years before "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Kirk meets Gary Mitchell when they are both.kids who haven't entered Starfleet Academy yet. This is a separate event from them becoming friends which happens later.

Star date 1313.1. We're now approaching Delta Vega. Course set for a standard orbit. This planet, completely uninhabited, is slightly smaller than Earth. Desolate, but rich in crystal and minerals. Kelso's task, transport down with a repair party, try to regenerate the main engines, save the ship. Our task, transport down a man I've known for fifteen years, and if we're successful, maroon him there.

Kirk enters Starfleet Academy at the age of 17.000 to 22.999 if the admission age range is the same as for contemporary US service academies. The Making of Star Trek says Kirk is 17, which I will accept. During his plege (first year) Kirk is tormented by a 20 year old upperclassman named Finnigan, who is graduated, trnsferred, or expelled at the end of the year when Kirk is probably now 18. Teh end of Kirk's first eyar at the Academy is about 15 years before "Shore Leave".

KIRK: I know the feeling very well. I had it at the Academy. An upper classman there. One practical joke after another, and always on me. My own personal devil. A guy by the name of Finnegan.

FINNEGAN: Get up. Get up. Get up. Always fight fair, don't you? True officer and gentleman, you. You stupid underclassman. I've got the edge. I'm still twenty years old. Look at you. You're an old man.

FINNEGAN: I never answer questions from plebes, Jimmy boy.
KIRK: I'm not a plebe. This is today, fifteen years later. What are you doing here?

Kirk may have been assigned to the Axanar Peace Mission during his first year as a Cadet at the Academy - possibly that explains how he no longer was bothered by Finnegan after his firs year at the Academy.. In "Whom Gods Destroy":

KIRK: I agree there was a time when war was necessary, and you were our greatest warrior. I studied your victory at Axanar when I was a cadet. In fact it's still required reading at the Academy.
GARTH: As well it should be.
KIRK: Very well. But my first visit to Axanar was as a new fledged cadet on a peace mission.
GARTH: Peace mission! Politicians and weaklings!
KIRK: They were humanitarians and statesmen, and they had a dream. A dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars, a dream that made Mister Spock and me brothers.

Kirk became friends with Benjamin Finney, an instructor at the Academy, who named his daughter Jame after James Kirk at an unspecified date, according to "Court Martial":

STONE: Let us begin with your relationship with Commander Finney. You knew him for a long time, didn't you?
KIRK: Yes. He was an instructor at the Academy when I was a midshipman, but that didn't stand in the way of our beginning a close friendship. His daughter Jamie, who was here last night, was named after me.

.

And thus Jame should be no more than 15 to 16, and possibly younger, in "Court Martial"..

Presumably Kirk graduated from Starfleet Academy after four years, aged about 21, and was commissioned an ensign. Kirk served undera captain Garrovik in various assignments after graduating from the Academy according to "Obsesson"..

MCCOY: Captain Garrovick was very important to you, wasn't he, Jim?
KIRK: Yes. He was my commanding officer from the day I left the Academy. One of the finest men I ever knew. I could have killed that thing if I'd fired soon enough the first time.

At first Ensign Kirk must have served aboard the starship Republic udner Captain Garrovik and alongside Benjamiin Finney, according to "Court Martial":

STONE: It's common knowledge that something happened to your friendship.
KIRK: It's no secret. We were assigned to the same ship some years later. I relieved him on watch once and found a circuit open to the atomic matter piles that should've been closed. Another five minutes, it could have blown up the ship.
COMPUTER: Ship nomenclature. Specify.
KIRK: United Starship Republic, number 1371.
STONE: Continue.
KIRK: I closed the switch and logged the incident. He drew a reprimand and was sent to the bottom of the promotion list.
STONE: And he blamed you for that?
KIRK: Yes. He had been at the Academy for an unusually long time as an instructor. As a result, he was late in being assigned to a starship. The delay, he felt, looked bad on his record. My action, he believed, made things worse.
STONE: Comment. Service record of Lieutenant Commander Finney to be appended this inquiry.

SHAW: With reference to Records Officer Finney, was there in his service record a reported disciplinary action for failure to close a circuit?
ENSIGN: Yes, ma'am.
SHAW: Was the charge in that instance based upon a log entry by the officer who relieved him?
ENSIGN: Yes, ma'am.
SHAW: And who was that officer?
ENSIGN: Ensign James T. Kirk.
SHAW: Louder, please, for the court.
ENSIGN: Ensign James T. Kirk.
SHAW: Now the Captain Kirk who sits in this courtroom?
ENSIGN: Yes, ma'am.

Sometime later, Captain Garrovik must have transferred from the Republic to the Farragut., and Kirk must have transferrred with him.

In "The Corbomite Maneuver" McCoy and KIrk mention a time in Kirk's past, a time that McCoy may have been present at:

MCCOY: I'm especially worried about Bailey. Navigator's position's rough enough for a seasoned man.
KIRK: I think he'll cut it.
MCCOY: Oh? How so sure? Because you spotted something you liked in him, something familiar, like yourself say about, oh, eleven years ago?

Kirk should have been about 33 in "Shore Leave" 15 years after the end of his first year in Starfleet Academy. If he was also about 33 in 'The Corbomite Maneuver" he would have been about 22 at the time 11 year earlier That McCoy was talking about, quite possiblyw hen McCoy met Kirk. And that should have been soon after Kirk Graduated from Starfleet Academy and was serving under Captain Garrovick oo the Republic or the Farragut with the rank of ensign or lieutenant junior grade.

In "The Deadly Years" Kirk suffered from a condition resembling rapid aging, and was at a competency hearning:

SPOCK: Medical banks, compute described subject's physical age, using established norms as comparative base.
COMPUTER: Working. Subject's physical age based on physiological profile, between sixty and seventy two. Aging rapidly.
KIRK: No, I'm thirty four. I'm thirty four years old.

Which nobody corrects. Thus Kirk should have been age 34 in "The Deadly Years", and we might guess that he was aged somewhere between 33.000 to 35.999 in other second season episodes, such as "A Private Little War", "Obsession":, "Amok Time", and "Journey to Babel".

In "A Private Little War" they are at a planet Kirk has been to before:

SPOCK: Aside from that, you say it's a Garden of Eden?
KIRK: Or so it seemed to the brash young Lieutenant Kirk on his first planet survey.
SPOCK: Class M in all respects. Quite Earth-like.

KIRK: When I left there thirteen years ago, those villagers had barely learned to forge iron. Spock was shot with a flintlock. How many centuries between those two developments?

So Kirk was alaready a lieutenant 13 years before he was probably aged somewhere between 33.000 and 35.999 in "A Private Little War", and thus when aged about 19.to 22.999.

"Obsession" is 11 years after Kirk was a lieutenant on the Farragut under Captain Garrovick:

KIRK: I suggest you look at the record tapes of past similar occurrences. You'll find the USS Farragut lists casualties eleven years ago from exactly the same impossible causes.

SPOCK: Precisely. Have you studied the incident involving the USS Farragut?
MCCOY: No. With all these deaths and injuries, I've only had a chance to scan the tapes. There are eight or ten hours of record tape there.
SPOCK: Fortunately, I read somewhat faster. In brief, Doctor, nearly half the crew and the captain were annihilated. The captain's name was Garrovick.
MCCOY: The same as our Ensign.
SPOCK: His father. Among the survivors was a young officer on his first deep-space assignment, James T. Kirk. And there is still more. I suggest you study this.

MCCOY: Am I? I was speaking of Lieutenant James T. Kirk of the starship Farragut. Eleven years ago, you were the young officer at the phaser station when something attacked. According to the tapes, this young Lieutenant Kirk insisted upon blaming himself.
KIRK: Because I delayed in firing at it.
MCCOY: You had a normal emotion. You were startled. You delayed firing for a grand total of perhaps two seconds.
KIRK: If I hadn't delayed, it would have been killed.
MCCOY: The ship's exec didn't seem to think so. His log entry was quite clear on the subject. Lieutenant Kirk is a fine young officer who performed with uncommon bravery.
KIRK: Don't you understand? It killed two hundred crewmen.

Obviously, McCoy was not on the Farragut during the incident with the vampire cloud. Kirk was still a lieuteanant during the vampire cloud incident, eleven years before "Obseesion", when Kirk is aged 33.000 to 35.999, and thus when he was aged 22 to 24.999.

This was during Kirk's first deep space assignment, which probably thus included both his service on the Republic and his service on the Farragut.

Now consider when Kirk became the commander of the Enterprise.

In "Amok Time", when Kirk should be aged 33.000 to 35.999:

KIRK: I'm more interested in your request for shore leave. In all the years
SPOCK: You have my request, Captain. Will you grant it or not?
KIRK: In all the years that I've known you, you've never asked for a leave of any sort. In fact, you've refused them. Why now?

So Kirk has proablably been in command of the Enterprise and working together with Spock for at lest 2.000 years, and thus since he was aged about 31.000 to 33.999, or younger.

In "Journey to Babel" Amanda talks to Spock:

AMANDA: And you haven't come to see us in four years, either.

So if Amanda's four years must be less than five years, and since Spock would have had to take leave to visit his parents, and since Kirk would have noticed one o fhis senior officrrs taking leave, Kirk must have taken command of the Enteprise and started working with Spock less than five years before "Journey to Babel". So Kirk should have taken command of the Enteprise when he was at least 28.000 to 30.999.

So Kirk already was a lieutenant or lieutenant junior grade when aged about 19.000 to 22.999, Kirk was still a lieutenant or lieutenant junior grade when the vamprie cloud struck when Kirk was aged about 22.000 to 24.999.

Krik became the commanding officer of the Enterprise sometime between the ages of 28.000 and 33.999.

If Kirk should have been aged about 33.000 to 353999 in the second season, he probably should have been aged about 32.000 to 34.999 in the first season. Kirk met Khan in "Space Seed" and left him on Ceti Alpha VI during the first season.

In Star trek II: The Wrath of Khan Khan says:

KHAN: You are in a position to demand nothing, sir. I, on the other hand, am in a position to grant ...nothing. What you see is all that remains of the ship's company and crew of the Botany Bay, marooned here fifteen years ago by Captain James T. Kirk.

And Kirk says:

KIRK: There's a man out there I haven't seen in fifteen years who's trying to kill me. You show me a son that'd be happy to help him. My son. ...My life that could have been, ...and wasn't. And what am I feeling? ...Old. ...Worn out.

So 15 to 16 years after Kirk was aged 32.000 to 34.999 should be when Kirk is aged 45.00 to 50.999.

How old is Kirk's son David Marcus in Star trek II: The Wrath of Khan?

KIRK: Where's Doctor Marcus?
DAVID: I'm Doctor Marcus!

So if David had a doctorate he was proabably aged 25 to 30, and thus shoud lhave been born when Kirk was aged 15.00 to 25.999.

Kirk was a lieutenant aboard the Farragut when they fought the vampire space cloud when Kirk was aged sonwhere between 22.000 and 24.999.

Sometime after that incident, Kirk should have returned to Starfleet Academy and became an instructor there. In "Where No Man Has Gone Before":

MITCHELL: Well, I'm getting a chance to read some of that longhair stuff you like. Hey man, I remember you back at the Academy. A stack of books with legs. The first thing I ever heard from an upperclassman was, watch out for Lieutenant Kirk. In his class, you either think or sink.
KIRK: I wasn't that bad, was I?
MITCHELL: If I hadn't aimed that little blonde lab technician at you
KIRK: You what? You planned that?
MITCHELL: Well, you wanted me to think, didn't you? I outlined her whole campaign for her.
KIRK: I almost married her!

And:

DEHNER: I don't think so. I understand you least of all. Gary told me that you've been friends since he joined the service, that you asked for him aboard your first command.

So Kirk would have taught his class for at least one year year, since upperclassmen warned Gary Mitchell about it when he entered the Academy. So when Mitchell entered the Academy Kirk should have been at least 23.000 to 25.999. And if Carol Marcus was the "little blonde lab technician" that Gary got kirk involved with no doubt some time woudl have pased before David Marcus was conseived. And then about 9 months or 0.75years would pass before David was born. So David should have been born when Kirk was aged at least 23.75 to 26.749.

Considering that the normal age to be commissioned an ensign is 22, and kirk was probably only one year younger when he became an ensign, and that in the most natural interpretation of Kirk's career he would have been an ensign for a while and then been a lieuteneant for a year or two before the earliest time when Kirk might have returned to Starfleet Academy, and that Kirk proably taught for at least one year before Gary Mitchell introduced him to the blonde lab technician, it seems a little hard to believe that David could have been born earlier enough to be a doctor in Star trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

Maybe David Marcus wasn't actually a doctor in Star trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Or Maybe he was a very precocius doctor. Memory Alpha says he was killed aged 24, and quotes script notes describing him as a "bright young scientist of twenty".

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/David_Marcus

And maybe Kirk's career was not very simple and straightforward, and didn't happen the way the various references to it in the epsiodes and movies imply, so maybe Kirk was an instructor at the Academy at a younger age and thus David was born when Kirk was younger than calculated.

But the simpliest chronology of Kirk's life makes it seem chronologically improbable that Kirk was an instructor at Starfleet Academy aged about 22.

 

[Timo]

In "WNMHGB", Kirk is said to have asked for Mitchell as his sidekick aboard his first command. It's left open whether his request was granted, but at least Mitchell is on his side right there. If Kirk truly had the power to assemble a dream team, we're left with two alternatives:

1) He asked for his friend Piper, and for Mitchell and Spock. He later had to settle for this grumpy stranger McCoy.
2) He really asked for his friend McCoy, got what he wanted, and Piper was just standing in while McCoy was temporarily off to other business.

Quite a few novels go for #2 here, actually. But we don't have many reasons to believe in Kirk's dream team powers: it's not a realistic expectation in a military organization; it's not all that likely that Kirk would have asked for Spock; and Kirk personally ensuring that Ben Finney was aboard, or him personally trying to achieve the opposite and failing, is never brought up in "Court Martial", say, even though this would have been of importance in judging his character.

Personally, I'd drop the dream team idea and leave the nature of Jim and Leonard's friendship history open. Perhaps their paths had crossed once, at most twice, and this rejoining was a happy coincidence, different from the solid and ongoing Jim/Gary slash. Or perhaps the two were fast friends but serving together had previously been out of the question for very serious reasons.

As for how the two would initially meet, or learn of each other, we can believe in sheer happenstance, or we can search for specific in-universe reasons. We don't learn that Kirk would have been a phenomenon in his youth, a character known to all, but perhaps McCoy was, and the Instructor Lieutenant Kirk had to deal with that somehow? At some point after that, Kirk became a famed warrior leader; perhaps McCoy came to patch up his victims at that point? The "something memorable happened 11 years ago" bit could be explained by either.

Timo Saloniemi