Guinan

[Terok Nor]

A thread in the DS9 forum in which Guinan was mentioned spurred me to create this one.

What was your opinion of Guinan?

At times it felt like she was shoehorned into the series just to have Whoopi Goldberg part of the cast. The lack of exploration of her past, notably with Picard, Q and the Borg, left her a mystery. Is she from the Delta Quadrant? Does she have powers? Why are she and Picard closer than family?

I liked her at times - her friendship with Ro was great for instace - but I think Counselor Troi should have been used in place of Guinan for the most part. We were given essentially 2 counselors which made Troi slightly redundant.

I liked Whoopi Goldberg during the 80's and 90's (not so much now due to The View) so I was glad to see her but her character makes little sense to me.

 

[johnnybear]

According to Generations she was an El Aurian, also known as the whisperers! I don't think they ever explored the relationship between her and Picard and she disappeared from the weekly series at one point only to make her final appearance in Generations!
JB

 

[hux]

I liked her at first but because I liked Whoopi but in recent years she seems to have lost her marbles. There are a few irritating moments with Guinan such as when she puts her hands up as though she's got the power to give Q a fight. What?

Then there's.....You're a droid and I'm a noid. It's funny.

I like Times Arrow though (mostly because she's finally doing a bit of comedy) and her involvement in Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[Terok Nor]

According to Generations she was an El Aurian, also known as the whisperers! I don't think they ever explored the relationship between her and Picard and she disappeared from the weekly series at one point only to make her final appearance in Generations!
JB

But are El Aurians from the Delta Quadrant? We never found out.

She also had a cameo at Riker and Troi's wedding in Nemesis but that revealed nothing about her as usual

I liked her at first but because I liked Whoopi but in recent years she seems to have lost her marbles. There are a few irritating moments with Guinan such as when she puts her hands up as though she's got the power to give Q a fight. What?

Then there's.....You're a droid and I'm a noid. It's funny.

I like Times Arrow though (mostly because she's finally doing a bit of comedy) and her involvement in Yesterday's Enterprise.

Times Arrow was great. I thought we'd finally discover what made Guinan and Picard closer than family but it never occurred. Yesterday's Enterprise is a masterpiece.

Guinan did add to some episodes I'll admit. Best Of Both Worlds was another one. The scene with Riker in Part 2 was nice.

 

[Forbin]

I mostly enjoyed her appearances. Whoopi exhibited a fine ability to perform subtlety and wisdom.

I thought Guinan's appearance in Yesterday's Enterprise was needless, though. The story would have been the same without her, and Tasha's bravery and sacrifice all the more poignant for not having been told about alternate realities.

Conversely I think her small contribution to Measure of a Man was just wonderful. Having her be the one to lead Picard to his realization about slavery was a clever stroke, and her masterfully subtle "I think that's a little harsh" to drive it home was genius.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sadly, an underdeveloped character.

She probably peaked in "The Best of Both Worlds," which I think worked better than her more pivotal, but also forced, role in "Yesterday's Enterprise." On many occasions her insights worked well to help work out interpersonal issues. The comedy didn't always work, but sometimes it did.

If she'd been on it, DS9 was the kind of show where we probably would have gotten the development that was really deserved for this character, but they already had a bartender.

 

[ALF]

Yes, she added a lot to the flavor of TBOBW, and I really loved what she contributed in I, Borg and Measure of a Man as well. When slavery / forced servitude came up Picard and Guinan would have these very revealing discussions about the human condition - which was a high point of TNG as a whole. In I, Borg, she about-faced on her opinion of the Borg (who slaughtered her people) when she met Hugh. But of course, not every appearance was effective. Doesn't she pull out a gun and shoot the ceiling to break up a bar brawl in Night Terrors?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

According to Generations she was an El Aurian, also known as the whisperers! I don't think they ever explored the relationship between her and Picard and she disappeared from the weekly series at one point only to make her final appearance in Generations!
JB

But are El Aurians from the Delta Quadrant? We never found out

Yeah, no real sense of how long those El Aurian ships were wandering before the E-B found them, especially considering how long those people live.

That was around 50-70 years before TNG?

But then we had Guinan on Earth 500 years before TNG.

I would guess El Auria was either in the Alpha quadrant closer to the galactic center, or similarly close to the center in any one of the other quadrants.

 

[Granola Gwen]

I think she was shoehorned in yet underdeveloped at the same time. I mean I'm glad to see Whoopi could act so well (heck, I don't even really think of Whoopi when I see Guinan now) and I like the character's wisdom. But the fact that Guinan acted as a counselor at times (or even gave Deanna advice) or was given the power to want to fight Q or notice the changes in Yesterday's Enterprise, felt weird. Like OP said, I wish we would have gotten to know why her and Picard are closer than family and etc.

 

[ALF]

I liked the mystery.

 

[TheSubCommander]

I really dislike Whoopi Goldberg as a person (she comes of as an arrogant know-it-all that just rubs me the wrong way), and while in first run, I was really disappointed with the introduction of Guinan, at first. She did seem shoe horned in at first, and I felt she was filling a lot of the roles that Troi should have been filling as a councilor. However, I think as time went on, and I got used to Guinan, I came to actually like the character.

I have to admit that WG is a good actress in dramatic roles: I don't care for her comedy roles, but in dramas, she can really act well. Guinan added a lot to some really good episodes: Q who, BOBW, Yesterday's Enterprise, Times Arrow, & I, Borg stand out to me. I also liked the small amount of mystery, particularly exactly what it was that made her and Picard so close, though Time's Arrow is a sufficient explanation for me. Oddly, I found her presence in Generations sort of useless and yet necessary at the same time. I missed her in First Contact (maybe I like her in Borg episodes, considering what they did to her people). I liked the fact she made an appearance in Nemesis, but felt too short, somehow.

 

[The Old Mixer]

If she'd been on it, DS9 was the kind of show where we probably would have gotten the development that was really deserved for this character, but they already had a bartender.

She could have run the jumja stick kiosk...

I mean I'm glad to see Whoopi could act so well

She won an Academy Award for Ghost and was nominated for The Color Purple. TNG wasn't the pinnacle of her acting career.

 

[Melakon]

I just wish the character hadn't been a retread of Troi.

 

[Kilana2]

A thread in the DS9 forum in which Guinan was mentioned spurred me to create this one.

What was your opinion of Guinan?

At times it felt like she was shoehorned into the series just to have Whoopi Goldberg part of the cast. The lack of exploration of her past, notably with Picard, Q and the Borg, left her a mystery. Is she from the Delta Quadrant? Does she have powers? Why are she and Picard closer than family?

I liked her at times - her friendship with Ro was great for instace - but I think Counselor Troi should have been used in place of Guinan for the most part. We were given essentially 2 counselors which made Troi slightly redundant.

I liked Whoopi Goldberg during the 80's and 90's (not so much now due to The View) so I was glad to see her but her character makes little sense to me.

I have a thread running in the literature forum. I'm a Guinan fan and I have read several novels which featured her. I haven't read the Stargazer novels yet. Oblivion features Guinan. Christopher L. Bennett's The Buried Age (Lost Era) features her, too. That made me curious about Guinan's past.

Feel free to review the Picard and Guinan thread. There could be spoilers, though.

 

[K'Toska]

I love Guinan. I know she fulfilled a role similar to Deanna Troi, but I don't think she stepped on Deanna's toes. Guinan was there to listen - her race is one made up of listeners. She notices things and gives feedback in an informal setting. It is sometimes easier to talk to someone in a bar about your problems than to set up an appointment with a counselor. Deanna was the one working with people over the long term and really trying to get them to open up. Guinan's advice seemed more focused on short term problems that needed an immediate focus. Also, Deanna served as more than the ship's counselor. She also had an extremely important job on the bridge that gave the Enterprise crew an advantage when meeting potentially hostile aliens. I do agree though that it would've been nice to know more about her past. "Vendetta" by Peter David gives us a look into it but it's still a bit confusing.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Guinan is one of those characters who's good in good episodes and bad in bad episodes.

She's an intriguing character. And she's a female character who has an intimate relationship with a male character that is in no way sexual, which is rare on television. You get a lot of hints of things she's been involved in over the past several hundred years and that she has capabilities she doesn't mention.

Just sometimes when she was used as a widget to bring somebody to an epiphany it came off as a little forced.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I just wish the character hadn't been a retread of Troi.

She was better at Troi's job than Troi was.

 

[Marsden]

I'll just chip in my usual that Guinan was my least favorite thing about TNG and rather have a dozen Wesleys leading the all Pakled operatic society sing me Ferengi lullabies every night than have one moment of Guinan.

 

[K'Toska]

I'll just chip in my usual that Guinan was my least favorite thing about TNG and rather have a dozen Wesleys leading the all Pakled operatic society sing me Ferengi lullabies every night than have one moment of Guinan.

But why?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Now, it kind of seems to me like "they" were kind of "punishing" whoopie for something she didn't do, because she was such a "Big Act" and needed to be roped in, to fit into the ensemble. So, they made her out to be this kind of onboard Yoda. Without ever really being given much to do, really, she was always aggrandised, like she was so very important ... like they were trying to walk some kind of line between letting her act and not letting her shine. Had Guinan been played by unknown talent, the character probably would've been allowed to play out in a way that was less concerned with who actually played her.