Fringe Series Finale (Discussion, Spoilers)

[Enterprise is Great]

I'm guessing thatWindmark was smashed mid teleport and his body or more accurately what was left of it ended up at whatever destination he had chosen before dying.

 

[gblews]

Held off watching the finale until tonight (Monday). I dreaded seeing the show end. Very touching ending. Peter and Walter as well as September and Michael fully connecting as fathers and sons.

Was really cool seeing the Other Side team helping out. I had a feeling when Windmark was talking to his superior that he had been feeling some emotion. He reminded me a bit of Agent Smith in the Matrix for a moment there. Nice also seeing all the old Fringe diseases and horrifying conditions again -- hi guys.

Going to miss Walter Bishop. He is one of the best sci fi characters ever. He was the kind of character who could say or do anything and wouldn't seem out of character. Initially I was so against a Peter/Olivia hook up, but the writers did a good job making it not cringy.

I've often wondered how people decide on which genre shows to demand all the technobabble, psuedo science and plot twists make perfect sense and which ones to give a pass on.

I didn't think the finale was TNG, BSG, or Six Feet Under great, but it certainly was satisfying.

 

[NCC1701MF]

I came across this on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=poMK0fyJkVw

 

[Forbin]

Checked out some of the interview videos on the side of that one - Bloody hell, Anna's an Aussie too!?!?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Checked out some of the interview videos on the side of that one - Bloody hell, Anna's an Aussie too!?!?

Rupert Murdoch was once her uncle by his marriage to her aunt Anna Maria Torv. James Murdoch is her cousin.

 

[bigdaddy]

Checked out some of the interview videos on the side of that one - Bloody hell, Anna's an Aussie too!?!?

Rupert Murdoch was once her uncle by his marriage to her aunt Anna Maria Torv. James Murdoch is her cousin.

And the only reason the show stayed on as long as it did.

I kid, they never met. The actor who played Peter once did an interview talking about getting renewed and brought up the fact maybe it was tiem for them to meet.

 

[Aeon]

It doesn't make complete sense, but Peter already was existing in a timeline in which he didn't exist before the reset. When Peter stepped into the universe machine and bridged the two universes he disappeared and a new timeline began.

So he was never actually saved by Walter in that timeline and the timeline in which he was saved by Walter had already been erased.

This is what I gathered as well. Essentially Peter is the "original" paradox that still exists... or can exists because of some weird quantum entanglement or whatever.

One huge detail that is very odd is the fact that invasion has happened in the perpetual now in 2036, but yet there is the future of 2609 practically unchanged... like it's just a different place on the map Windmark can visit anytime. Unless there is some sort of theory for this, perhaps involving the very important year of 2161, this is the biggest thing that doesn't make any sense.

Otherwise a great finale! Some very moving moments and a very fitting "end" for Walter. This time he took a boy through a portal to save the world and obviously succeeded, pretty much redeeming himself.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Checked out some of the interview videos on the side of that one - Bloody hell, Anna's an Aussie too!?!?

Rupert Murdoch was once her uncle by his marriage to her aunt Anna Maria Torv. James Murdoch is her cousin.

And the only reason the show stayed on as long as it did.

I kid, they never met. The actor who played Peter once did an interview talking about getting renewed and brought up the fact maybe it was tiem for them to meet.

Yeah, I also gather Anna Torv isn't very happy when anyone mentions the connection to her. I think it more to do with being estranged from her father than related to a media mogul.

It doesn't make complete sense, but Peter already was existing in a timeline in which he didn't exist before the reset. When Peter stepped into the universe machine and bridged the two universes he disappeared and a new timeline began.

So he was never actually saved by Walter in that timeline and the timeline in which he was saved by Walter had already been erased.

This is what I gathered as well. Essentially Peter is the "original" paradox that still exists... or can exists because of some weird quantum entanglement or whatever.

One huge detail that is very odd is the fact that invasion has happened in the perpetual now in 2036, but yet there is the future of 2609 practically unchanged... like it's just a different place on the map Windmark can visit anytime. Unless there is some sort of theory for this, perhaps involving the very important year of 2161, this is the biggest thing that doesn't make any sense.

Otherwise a great finale! Some very moving moments and a very fitting "end" for Walter. This time he took a boy through a portal to save the world and obviously succeeded, pretty much redeeming himself.

If Peter can survive being a paradox, I don't see why Walter and Michael can't. I subscribe to David Deutsch's interpretation of the many-worlds theory - well, at least on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays I do.

 

[Aeon]

Many-worlds theory would fix this easily, but it was clearly presented as a blue world future and the show always was contained between the blue and red universes. Today I found an interesting theory from a certain Omniscient_Jay and oddly enough that might do the trick! Even though it's just a theory and not explicitly laid out inside the show.

When the Observers first developed time-travel, they went to 2167 and used their tech to erect a temporal "dam" of sorts. This is a safeguard to protect their species Origin Point (Feb 20th, 2167) from temporal ripples that might come should temporal incursion happen pre-2167 (where the dam would hold back the "waters" of temporal change). With 2167-2600s being essential to causally justify Observer existence, it is forbidden to travel within that period, lest someone disturb the flow and alter Observer ontology.

This would explain why the actions of the Science Team and the multiple timeline alterations have not affected Future HQ; the ripples were held back by the space-time blockade, and the changes were generally confined to the 1985-2020s. The Science Team was concerned with restoring stability, however, potentially because the Loop might risk cracking the dam.

Whatever the case, this also applies for the Invasion. Once the foundation has been set and the preparation of their new planet is finally complete, the remaining Observers in 2609 will relocate to the 21st Century, the 2167 floodgates will be opened, and the temporal ripples of a history where Observer succeed in their Invasion would finally spread beyond 2617, likely undoing Future HQ (but it had been abandoned anyway, so it wouldn't matter anymore). Another implication is that for The Plan to work, Michael/Walter will either have to destroy this space-time barricade, or jump on the other side, which would allow them to alter Observer history.

Clearly, if The Plan involves changing the outcome of 2167, then that date must "anchor" the causality of the Observers, so the counterargument that the Observers "are impartial to all timeline changes by virtue of their nature" wouldn't apply here. I've championed that idea for a long time, but it is evidently obsolete, now, and in this barricade scenario, it is more that the Observers have shielded their Origin Point, and so long as that is preserved, they can withstand any timeline changes. Something to think about.

Or at least I thought it was an interesting read.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I think I recall Walter explaining the many-worlds interpretation at some point, but I guess the writers thought that two universes was as much as viewers could handle. If reality really does require anything that has a finite probability of happening to actually happen in at least one universe, I don't see how the Observers could shore up their temporal dam.
Anyway, the Vulcan Science Academy has determined time travel is not possible. Well, I assume they mean time travel into the past. I'm travelling into the future all the time.

 

[Aeon]

I guess I can take that as an explanation as well and like you said, it has been mentioned by Walter, so it can also be found inside the canon of the show. And it's simple!

I have always figured that yes, there are infinite amount of universes, but that our familiar blue and red worlds are somehow entangled together like the double helix of DNA if you will - perhaps because they were at some point just one single universe and they separated by some cataclysmic event, yet still very much connected. This fairly small and I suppose quite obvious theory might also explain the existense of the Machine in both worlds.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm more worried that there is a finite chance of immortality and I'm the version of me that gets to live forever. It really buggers up my pension plan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality

I wonder what Hugh Everett, the proposer of the MWI, is doing in the branch of the multiverse where he's still alive. He was a clever chap so I doubt that maintaining an income would be a problem, but who really wants to live forever in a universe when all you friends and family die before you and you survive until the end of time?

 

[Procutus]

Forgetting all of the other problems with time travel logic, Walter states that both he and Michael will be anomalies beyond 2015. I understand why Michael would be an anomaly, since he couldn't have been created by the Observers in the first place if they never existed, but I can't figure out why Walter would be an anomaly. Am I forgetting some critical interaction with the Obersvers he had? In this timeline, he and Peter were never saved by September, so it's not that ... so why would Walter be an anomaly?

I agree, this makes no sense. I mean for a time, Walter was going to let September accompany the kid... So if that had happened, would Walter STILL have disappeared in 2015? The whole thing just defies all logic.

That said, I still enjoyed it, on an emotional level. I am really, really going to miss seeing John Noble on my TV each week.