In part 1 it was revealed the equinox was pulled into the delta quadrant as well bt the caretaker,my question is which ship was pulled into the DQ first and how long were they there for before encountering the other starship?.
Equinox
- Thread starter Mr Pointy Ears
- Start date
Caretaker died in Voyagers Pilot.
Janeway took his corpse with her.
The array was blown up.
The rape factory was closed.
The script doesn't say when, but I always assumed Ransom was lured in about 6 months earlier.
Janeway took his corpse with her.
The array was blown up.
The rape factory was closed.
The script doesn't say when, but I always assumed Ransom was lured in about 6 months earlier.
Why didn't the Equinox use the array to get home? (it's been so many years since I saw that story, I don't remember)
Maybe he didn't think of it? 
That would make him even dumber than some of the TOS captains (not Decker; nobody could be dumber than him).
Equinox is a mess. The only thing their experience shares in common is being pulled into the Delta Quadrant by a being called the Caretaker. From there, their experience diverges. Voyager encounters the Kazon, Vidiians, Talaxians, and the friendly Sikari, meanwhile Equinox encounters the Krowtonan Guard, whom Neelix has never mentioned (the Mikhail Travelers in "Darkling" warned Voyager about a different dangerous group ahead, whom they avoided). Meanwhile, Voyager encountered the Borg or Borg-affected worlds & people a few times while Equinox somehow completely avoided it. How can Equinox avoid all the races Voyager encountered for est. 1000+ ly (Seasons 1-2)? How can Equinox avoid the Borg who occupy a huge swath of the quadrant and have transwarp conduits increasingly intersecting the middle part of the quadrant. Meanwhile, Equinox got the death dolphin summoning device from the Ankari. They claim to have cut decades off their journey that way, yet Voyager finds the Ankari, what was it, just 50 ly back. As I said, a mess.
I've wondered if the Equinox crew were so traumatized, they're hallucinating, as delusional as the "Bliss" affected Voyager crew, thinking they're traveling far, but really they just have conventional warp and crawled 50+ ly with their dolphin-unsafe fuel, being too psychotic to notice their sensors/odometer are damaged. That and the Equinox being pulled into Season 5 space (like say the space right before Voyager arrived after "Dark Frontier"'s jump) by another being called The Caretaker, who is either not a Nacene or was another Nacene who committed the same mistake and stayed behind to care for the world he FUBARed is perhaps the only way to smooth over the gaping geographic plot holes in the episode. "Equinox" is a fun story to try and make the most sense of. Or maybe they did find a wormhole close to the Array, though one would think well-traveled Neelix would've known about it.
I've wondered if the Equinox crew were so traumatized, they're hallucinating, as delusional as the "Bliss" affected Voyager crew, thinking they're traveling far, but really they just have conventional warp and crawled 50+ ly with their dolphin-unsafe fuel, being too psychotic to notice their sensors/odometer are damaged. That and the Equinox being pulled into Season 5 space (like say the space right before Voyager arrived after "Dark Frontier"'s jump) by another being called The Caretaker, who is either not a Nacene or was another Nacene who committed the same mistake and stayed behind to care for the world he FUBARed is perhaps the only way to smooth over the gaping geographic plot holes in the episode. "Equinox" is a fun story to try and make the most sense of. Or maybe they did find a wormhole close to the Array, though one would think well-traveled Neelix would've known about it.
Death Dolphins. 
Good one.
I went through the script yesterday. They didn't say shit about Caretaker other than "We'll talk about it later."
What we do Know.
Ransom does not hunt or attack, he hides or he runs.
That means that some of his crew probably died from Caretakerrape in the Ocampan Hospice.
Janeway found Ocampa (An overnight trip at "casual" warp, minutes at high warp.) because of the energy bursts from the Array to the Ocampan City, were bloody obvious. Maybe 6 months earlier they weren't so obvious? It could have been a burst every couple hours, or every couple days, for all we know.
We assumed that the Death Dolphins (I really like that.) followed Ransom because it seemed like once you get a super engine that that's right exactly what you do, burn rubber y'know. But isn't it fortunate that their fuel supply followed them? Isn't it bloody suicidal that their fuel supply followed Equinox?
Or...
Ransom said that he needed 64 four more Death Dolphins until he had enough gas to get all the way home, so really it would have been moronic for Ransom to anything but to go around and around in circles luring and trapping Death Dolphins until he had at least 64 of them, because how likely would it have been for the Death Dolphins to follow Equinox all the way to Earth?
But that's what I used to think.
Ransom leads the Dolphins to Earth, then the Dolphins sack Earth, and everyone dies.
Good one.
I went through the script yesterday. They didn't say shit about Caretaker other than "We'll talk about it later."
What we do Know.
Ransom does not hunt or attack, he hides or he runs.
That means that some of his crew probably died from Caretakerrape in the Ocampan Hospice.
Janeway found Ocampa (An overnight trip at "casual" warp, minutes at high warp.) because of the energy bursts from the Array to the Ocampan City, were bloody obvious. Maybe 6 months earlier they weren't so obvious? It could have been a burst every couple hours, or every couple days, for all we know.
We assumed that the Death Dolphins (I really like that.) followed Ransom because it seemed like once you get a super engine that that's right exactly what you do, burn rubber y'know. But isn't it fortunate that their fuel supply followed them? Isn't it bloody suicidal that their fuel supply followed Equinox?
Or...
Ransom said that he needed 64 four more Death Dolphins until he had enough gas to get all the way home, so really it would have been moronic for Ransom to anything but to go around and around in circles luring and trapping Death Dolphins until he had at least 64 of them, because how likely would it have been for the Death Dolphins to follow Equinox all the way to Earth?
But that's what I used to think.
Ransom leads the Dolphins to Earth, then the Dolphins sack Earth, and everyone dies.
Equinox is probably my least favorite Voyager episode ever.
I'm not saying episodes like Tattoo, Favorite Son, and Threshold weren't worse. Threshold is probably the actual worst.
I just personally really dislike the way they portrayed Janeway in Equinox.
It's just not an episode I tend to rewatch.
And I am a J/Cer so I hate the fighting bits between those two.
I'm not saying episodes like Tattoo, Favorite Son, and Threshold weren't worse. Threshold is probably the actual worst.
I just personally really dislike the way they portrayed Janeway in Equinox.
It's just not an episode I tend to rewatch.
And I am a J/Cer so I hate the fighting bits between those two.
Just flip back to Year of Hell and how Janeway was acting when her ship was the one beat up and they were on the verge of death. Really makes her condescending nature silly at best. I mean she was convinced that her ship was "testing" her, willing to go into battle with a broken ship, thought it was a good idea to have her whole crew try and get home in escape pods and threatened to delete the doctor when he told her how stupid this all was. Toss her combustible space slugs then, and I'd bet money she'd use them.
"I'm going to have you executed in an agonizing way if you don't betray your captain's location to me so I can hunt him down and kill him for betraying humanity's principles" Please...
As for why Equiniox wasn't sent back after their crew was raped? I dunno... this is Voyager, continuity isn't a strong point. Maybe Banjo man scared them off after he had his way with them in the barn.
"I'm going to have you executed in an agonizing way if you don't betray your captain's location to me so I can hunt him down and kill him for betraying humanity's principles" Please...
As for why Equiniox wasn't sent back after their crew was raped? I dunno... this is Voyager, continuity isn't a strong point. Maybe Banjo man scared them off after he had his way with them in the barn.
Neelix said that a lot of ships were not sent home.
Equinox is probably my least favorite Voyager episode ever.
I'm not saying episodes like Tattoo, Favorite Son, and Threshold weren't worse. Threshold is probably the actual worst.
I just personally really dislike the way they portrayed Janeway in Equinox.
It's just not an episode I tend to rewatch.
And I am a J/Cer so I hate the fighting bits between those two.
It's one of my favorites because I just love it when Starfleet stops acting like Starfleet and goes rogue. Also was a big fan of John Savage from seeing him on Dark Angel which I watched before this episode. Usually when Starfleet goes rogue it's some ivory tower admiral that we don't relate to, seeing Ransom as a captain stuck in the same place as Janeway only in worse straits was great stuff.
Given that Voyager started before the Dominion War kicked off, and Equinox went eariler still, but still after the wormhole was found, could Equinox have initially have tried to get to the Gamma quadrant end of the wormhole, but found their path completely blocked by space belonging to the 'Krotownon Guard' and being forced to go directly to the Beta Quadrant, in the same way that Voyager did, since they couldn't go around Krowtonan Space. Hence a slightly different flightpath, and the fact that none of the species back up near the Caretaker Array had seen 'a similar ship about 6 months ago', when first encountered by Voyager.
At least they did the Dreadnought ep, implying that other items from the Alpha quadrant did survive the journey.
In the light of the way NuBSG worked out, should Voyager have gone down the rout of perhaps running into a few other Alpha and Beta quadrant ships and forming a ragtag fleet, all trying to get home, but with the likely conflict generated by having a mixed fleet from different species, not all of whom get along?
At least they did the Dreadnought ep, implying that other items from the Alpha quadrant did survive the journey.
In the light of the way NuBSG worked out, should Voyager have gone down the rout of perhaps running into a few other Alpha and Beta quadrant ships and forming a ragtag fleet, all trying to get home, but with the likely conflict generated by having a mixed fleet from different species, not all of whom get along?
Equinox is probably my least favorite Voyager episode ever.
I'm not saying episodes like Tattoo, Favorite Son, and Threshold weren't worse. Threshold is probably the actual worst.
I just personally really dislike the way they portrayed Janeway in Equinox.
It's just not an episode I tend to rewatch.
And I am a J/Cer so I hate the fighting bits between those two.
It's one of my favorites because I just love it when Starfleet stops acting like Starfleet and goes rogue. Also was a big fan of John Savage from seeing him on Dark Angel which I watched before this episode. Usually when Starfleet goes rogue it's some ivory tower admiral that we don't relate to, seeing Ransom as a captain stuck in the same place as Janeway only in worse straits was great stuff.
I DO like seeing Starfleet go rogue!
But...J/C fighting...can't...like it... AHHHH.
Also Janeway is scary at some parts. And I love Janeway. Although I like pissed off Janeway too. During some bits she had crazy eyes!! lol
Your first point is quite logical. 
However, the second... not if you're going to call the show Star Trek: Voyager instead of Star Trek: Galactica.
However, the second... not if you're going to call the show Star Trek: Voyager instead of Star Trek: Galactica.
I DO like seeing Starfleet go rogue!
But...J/C fighting...can't...like it... AHHHH.
Also Janeway is scary at some parts. And I love Janeway. Although I like pissed off Janeway too. During some bits she had crazy eyes!! lol
I know Picard would never have crazy eyes but Picard would never have crazy makeup sex with Chakotay after the fighting. You just need to tweak your J/C into finding advantage in the crazy and the fighting
See how I care about Janeway, that I would suggest such a thing.. anything to make it all for a greater character good.
Your first point is quite logical.
However, the second... not if you're going to call the show Star Trek: Voyager instead of Star Trek: Galactica.
Not sure which point is which and whose and what?
But a bit of breaking down under huge stress makes sense.
I was referring to this, posted by vulcan redshirt:teacake said:Your first point is quite logical.
However, the second... not if you're going to call the show Star Trek: Voyager instead of Star Trek: Galactica.
Not sure which point is which and whose and what?
But a bit of breaking down under huge stress makes sense.
The reference to when the Equinox got ship-napped by the Caretaker (after the first wormhole is discovered, yet before the Dominion War) giving them the idea to head for that wormhole, instead of taking the same route Voyager did. That's what I consider logical.
The "ragtag fleet" is what I would call "Star Trek: Galactica" and is an idea I don't like at all.
I would have been extremely happy if VOY was Star Trek: Galactica but I'm also extremely happy with what we got. It's not like you could get it to Galactica with a bit of tweaking, it would have to be a totally different show.
I was referring to this, posted by vulcan redshirt:teacake said:Your first point is quite logical.
However, the second... not if you're going to call the show Star Trek: Voyager instead of Star Trek: Galactica.
Not sure which point is which and whose and what?
But a bit of breaking down under huge stress makes sense.
The reference to when the Equinox got ship-napped by the Caretaker (after the first wormhole is discovered, yet before the Dominion War) giving them the idea to head for that wormhole, instead of taking the same route Voyager did. That's what I consider logical.
The "ragtag fleet" is what I would call "Star Trek: Galactica" and is an idea I don't like at all.
We have to remember wormholes are notoriously unstable. Yes, we know the Bajoran wormhole was stable due to the Prophets, but how could anyone guess whether they would keep the wormhole open long enough to be there for the Delta-Gamma Quadrant journey? On that alone, a ship would have to weigh a slightly shorter journey but one which has the "warp zone" being possibly unreliable, that if they go that route, the odds of it being there aren't 100% vs. the direct route which is longer, but Earth will be there. And even if something by chance happens to Earth, all the other Federation worlds and Earth colonies would be there.
Also consider both left after the Dominion was revealed. Even in their debut they showed how dangerous they were, exterminating an entire Bajoran colony there and easily took down a Galaxy-class starship. Yes, the Dominion might not be around by the time the Equinox gets to the wormhole, but could they take that chance? For all they know, the Dominion could've been on the upswing and expanded even more, putting the wormhole deep within their space.
The Bajoran wormhole was a longshot, especially given what Equinox & Voyager knew of the tactical situation of the Gamma Quadrant area it was in, the fickleness of wormholes, and the huge distance to it anyway. And from a crew morale perspective, if you're going to Earth, you're always making progress, even if it's a long journey that may not succeed, but going to the wormhole, you're just exploring the opposite side of the galaxy, not making any real headway unless you get to the wormhole and it's still there.
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Ransome did say they encountered a wormhole in their journey back, which is why they managed to travel as far as they did, never encountered the aliens and planets Voyager did, and avoided tangling with the Swedes. That was before they ever came in contact with the Death Dolphins.
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The Swedes?
OH RIGHT.. Lily.
OH RIGHT.. Lily.
