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Empok and Terok...

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Captain
Captain
There have been two Terok-Nor type stations that we know of, did the Cardissans build any other Empok or Terok type station anywhere else in their empire. Also, was it ever discussed why the Cardissians did not destroy the station when they left Bajor, I also would be under the assumption that the Order would have left many sophisticated surveillance
devices throughout the station, even with a total security sweep of the entire station, I doubt that they could have found them all, any thoughts...
 
Well, Terok Nor was established to be a mining station, with much of its structure dedicated to ore processing and loading. So Cardassians would only have built those where they actually conducted mining operations. Or more probably they would have towed such stations to locations where mining was done - apparently Empok Nor sits nowhere near a mine, or near anything else for that matter, and thus probably was towed there from some more significant location. Possibly Empok Nor orbited another world that the Cardassians had to abandon, and pehaps they had learned from their Terok Nor debacle and did not willingly leave another station behind.

When Cardassians withdrew from Bajor, they were probably in a state of deep denial. Episodes like "Cardassians" and "The Maquis" reveal that the withdrawal was dictated on Central Command by the civilian government, supposedly the Detapa Council. It would only make sense that Gul Dukat would think that he'd be returning to the station in a week or two, and would continue the task of subjugating Bajor with renewed vehemence. There would be no motivation for him to blow up his own station - and even if regulations dictated or his superiors ordered the self-destruct, he would rebel and refuse, placing his bets on the Central Command eventually triumphing over the Detapa wusses.

So there'd just be some minimal vandalism inside the station, plus disabling of the combat systems, not a self-destruct.

I thought it cool that the existence of lingering security systems was used as the basis of an entire episode, "Civil Defense". No doubt Dukat had a few duotronic flies on the walls, too, considering how much good intelligence he always had on Sisko's doings.

Timo Saloniemi
 
When the Cardassians left, they did a thorough job trashing everything but the station's structure . The computers were damaged and airlocks were trashed. Sisko returned the favor to Dukat when he abandoned DS9 to the Dominion. In regards to Empak Nor, not much is known about it other than it was abandoned and that its research pet project was left. Also, it was booby trapped, which may indicate that the Cardassian government may have wanted to reclaim the station at a later date.
 
There have been two Terok-Nor type stations that we know of, did the Cardissans build any other Empok or Terok type station anywhere else in their empire.

It seems very unlikely to me that they'd have built only two stations of this design, which seemed sound enough. I expect it is a multipurpose design with configurable ring and internal modules. Terok Nor was set up for mining, but Empok Nor was not orbiting a planet, so it is less likely that it was also a mining station.

It's a pretty big station and it seems as if it took the supposedly resource-hungry Cardassian Union a good while to complete Terok Nor, but I think it is easily imaginable that there are more of them out there.
 
I expect it is a multipurpose design with configurable ring and internal modules.

Quite possible. The DS9 Tech Manual offers the opposite description, saying that the upper and lower pylons are integral parts of an ore processing arrangement even if the outer ring cargo holds and the inner ring habitats are generic in functionality. But very little of that is evident in the show itself.

Empok Nor's story is a strange one. In the titular episode, all we learn is that it was abandoned "a year ago". That would be almost a year after the Klingons invaded, and at least half a year before they made peace with the Federation again - so the reasons of withdrawal probably weren't directly tactical, but more like strategic-economic, a scaling back of operations under Klingon pressure. Perhaps the Cardassians first tried to tow Empok Nor to safety, but only managed to get it away from the original mines and not all the way home? Or perhaps it was on its way to a mine but was never delivered?

If Empok Nor is not for mining, but a generic station, then what might its purpose have been? There supposedly was a garrison aboard, but the military experimentation conducted there doesn't sound like it would warrant a station with dozens upon dozens of docking points and cargo holds...

Timo Saloniemi
 
^

Semi-related: wasn't there some talk of the outer ring maybe-modules matching up to the ones on the Cardassian freighter design? I'm not in a position to closely inspect the resemblance as I write this, but that would be cool.
 
Yeah, the inside surface of the outer ring is dotted with things that look very much like the bumps on the transport. I'm not sure if the correspondence is 1:1, but I agree it would be pretty cool if those were containers.

Funny how the Klingons also use the same shape of container - and of transport - only at twice the size...

Timo Saloniemi
 
With regards to the Nor class used by the Cardassian Union; I imaged them as command and control stations for either Occupation forces or fleet commands for the various Orders of the Empire. There is a Nor class station that is used for this very purpose mentioned in the "Badlands" dulogy a few years ago.

I'm not sure if that is actually canon, but I think reference has been made to this function in previous DS9 episodes for example "Defiant" and Terok Nor certainly fulfilled this role during the early stages of the Dominion War.
 
I wonder if DS9 was that good a fleet base.

I mean, did the Cardassians originally design it to support starships, or was it designed to be a mining/command/intimidation base supported by starships? Does the station e.g. have the ability to refuel starships, or is it refueled by them? Can it perhaps store or produce antimatter for starship use? Can it do repairs?

We don't quite learn that the station would be on the giving side even after the 9th Fleet sets shop there. Perhaps the starships that loiter about are still forced to get their sustenance mainly from Starbase 375? DS9 would provide them with some industrial replicator time for spares and repairs, of course, but those machines probably aren't as good as those of a starbase or O'Brien wouldn't have the problems he faces in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River".

Doesn't mean the station wouldn't have been a good command post, of course - often those are situated apart from supply depots and repair yards.

Timo Saloniemi
 
There was probably a whole 'fleet' of Nor stations out there that we just never heard of. Some of them might even still exist.

In "The Battle of Betazed" (novel), the Dominion attempts to build one, called Sentok Nor, in orbit of occupied Betazed.
 
Hmm... I just watched "Babel" for the very first time. It makes the clear reference to the station having been in the middle of construction as recently as 18 years prior to the episode - thus, around 2350 or so. However, "Wrongs Darker" puts the construction back another five years, to 2346 at the latest. So to accommodate both ideas, we might have to argue that these stations take at least half a decade to build... And that Terok Nor at least wasn't towed in place, but was built right where our heroes found it in "Emissary".

Or then "Wrongs" was but a hallucination, and Kira didn't get her dream-facts right.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Or then "Wrongs" was but a hallucination, and Kira didn't get her dream-facts right.

She checked after the fact, before her little talk at the very end of the episode, if you recall.

Plus, the time-travel capabilities of the Orb of Time were established beforehand, yes?
 
Only if one thinks that "Trials and Tribble-ations" wasn't a hallucination, too. :)

Timo Saloniemi
 
I blame Dax. Even since the late 23rd century, the old trickster's probably had a secret tribble ranch somewhere for re-unleashing the menace on the galaxy...

Timo Saloniemi
 
hi I'm new here,

just wanted to point out that the station was built in 1.5 years ircc from a ST: The Magazine article on it.
 
The "Nor-class" stations would possibly have just been a generic design. Terok Nor was built in orbit of Bajor. I kind of questioned the idea of transporting mined products from the planet below to be processed on a space station, but after watching the Voyager episode with Paris and Kim being incarcerated in a prison in space, it makes sense - they can contain them there and there's no way they can escape because they're in space.

According to Memory Alpha, Empok Nor was in the Trivas system within Cardassian space and was just used as a research facility to test drugs on Cardassian soldiers. It must have been used for other purposes not revealed in the show though because, as Timo says, there's a lot of space onboard - maybe it was a general science station testing things too dangerous to test on Cardassia...
 
IIRC, there was a Litvok Nor in Star Trek: Bridge Commander that you had to destroy somewhere in the middle of the game.

Regarding the question of why didn't they blow terok nor up: A Stitch in Time mentioned that the cardassians had been negotiating with the federation about their retreat from Bajor, so the federation probably negotiated to get the station (otherwise, they would've had to construct a starbase in orbit of Bajor, which could've taken a few years)
 
While it's far from canon I prefer the Millennium Trilogy explanation for why Terok Nor didn't blow up when the Cardassians left: Garak shut down the sequence.
 
If you want a possible and plausible explanation as to why they left it mostly intact, I have one. Its possible they wanted to leave it as a reminder to The Bajorans of what they did to them. However, the reason is that we wouldn't have a convient setting for our characters to inhabit:d
 
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