Dr. Julian Bashir: The Creep of Deep Space Nine

[ALF]

Dr. Bashir is a creep. His sexual interest in women seems to generate when it is least needed - when she is in need of medical attention.

I love DS9. I've been enjoying rewatching it these past couple of months but it's become impossible to ignore Bashir's inappropriate advances toward his patients, those in a position of trust. I'm sure many of you Niners have noticed this. Riker creeps too, but he's not a doctor. Lwaxana creeps but I'm pretty sure she's doing it out of her own amusement - watching Picard squirm, etc. and she's got the telepathy to know how everyone really feels anyway. This is strictly a medical ethics viewpoint - Bashir's not the creepiest character in Trek, but for a Doctor, I think he's in a class all his own.

Bashir has many fine qualities and he is heroic and generally tries to be a good person - but his sense of medical ethics is fundamentally warped. Starfleet Medical doesn't seem to give a vole's ass. It doesn't seem to bother Sisko or anyone else in command, either. He's surrounded by enablers!

First, Bashir starts on Jadzia, whom he spends most of the first season flirting with. Not too much of a red flag, at least there he's not treating a patient. The early scene in Emmisary where he's trying to ask her out after getting off the runabout is cute. And they at least are the same rank, I believe, Lt. junior grade.

Then there's Melora, the woman with the gravity chair. He invades her quarters to creep her: "is that your boyfriend in the picture?" She wants to discontinue his treatment after they become romantically involved, at which point he erupts at her in anger. I mean, that's totally fucking inappropriate, right? They end the episode on a warm note between the two, but it's still weird.

Leeta. Great, someone who isn't a patient. Although, she initially does try to feign having a cough around him to get his attention. She's too good for him. Glad she shacks up with Nog at the end. I'm actually a big fan of the Leeta/Bashir 'ship. Certainly an amusing storyline with no distracting ethical breaches.

Then there's Sarina, the augment. She gets preferential treatment from the other mutants, then after they kiss Bashir offers her a trip to Risa with him for a week when it's clear she can't think clearly because of all the new thalamic connections in her head. Yes Bashir, let's take our delicate patient to the orgy planet of the quadrant to "relax." It's like he's trying to create his perfect mate by healing this woman in a way that suits his needs. The mutants tell Bashir she's now in a catatonic state because of the romantic feelings he has shown her. So what does he do in response? Professes his love for her ever more, which upsets her. I think this episode with Sarina is Bashir's creepiness at it's worst.

Haven't come to Ezri Dax's relationship with Bashir in my rewatch yet... I think its very late in season 7. Looking forward to some more creepy scenes between the two of them. Oh man - that IS going to be creepy because Jadzia rejects him years before and then it's like he gets the last laugh by chasing after her AGAIN in a different body!! Oh Bashir... [Picard facepalm]​

Did I miss anyone?
The look on that face says it all: I'm not getting laid tonight.

I also would have thought the actor, Siddig, would have found some of these character choices unflattering, but apparently not. He was upset about the secretly genetically modified plot changing his character retroactively. http://trekmovie.com/2010/05/06/ale...nger-over-changes-to-bashir-character-on-ds9/

Doctor Bashir!! Stop kissing your patients on the lips. Good god, man.

 

[Tosk]

She wants to discontinue his treatment after they become romantically involved, at which point he erupts at her in anger.

When does that happen? I don't recall the details of that.

 

[ALF]

When does that happen? I don't recall the details of that.

My bad, you are right... I admit, I skipped a few episodes because I couldn't slog through again - I was going off my memories of the Melora broadcast from 1994. I could have sworn there was a scene where Bashir was stripping someone down for backing out of a radical treatment of his, maybe in another episode. Here's how it went down:

MELORA: Julian, I'm not going ahead with the treatments.
BASHIR: Well, you can always try it again someday, if you change your mind.
MELORA: I don't think I will. I like being independent, but to give up everything that I am to walk on land. Well, I might be more independent but I wouldn't be Elaysian anymore. I'm not sure what I'd be. Besides, maybe independence isn't all it's cracked up to be. I kind of like how it feels to depend on someone for a change. And I'm glad you got me to unlock the doors to my quarters so I could finally let someone into my life.
BASHIR: So am I.​

 

[UnknownSample]

DS9 did seem to show Julian making questionable medical decisions a LOT. On Tribbles, on the turbo lift, he makes an argument that a temporal paradox might require him to have sex with the crew woman they just met, and why? Because she might be his great, great grandmother. Forget how that's genetic nonsense, since your DNA + someone else's won't eventually lead to exactly your DNA again. I would think. He wants to go have sex with a relative, with that as its own justification, that's the thing.
-------------------
Another weirdie: When Quark requests a sudden sex change operation, for business reasons, casually, out of the blue, on impulse, Bashir naturally just goes ahead and does it (offscreen). Who wouldn't? Was there even a discussion?

 

[fireproof78]

DS9 did seem to show Julian making questionable medical decisions a LOT. On Tribbles, on the turbo lift, he makes an argument that a temporal paradox might require him to have sex with the crew woman they just met, and why? Because she might be his great, great grandmother. Forget how that's genetic nonsense, since your DNA + someone else's won't eventually lead to exactly your DNA again. I would think. He wants to go have sex with a relative, with that as its own justification, that's the thing.
-------------------
Another weirdie: When Quark requests a sudden sex change operation, for business reasons, casually, out of the blue, on impulse, Bashir naturally just goes ahead and does it (offscreen). Who wouldn't? Was there even a discussion?

That last one bothers me the most.

 

[Tosk]

Bashir naturally just goes ahead and does it (offscreen). Who wouldn't? Was there even a discussion?

Which is probably why they did it off-screen, because the character dynamics are pretty well defined, and to spend pages on Bashir objecting to the procedure and Quark pointing out that he has no legal reason to deny his request just wastes precious screen time in an otherwise fabulously written episode.

 

[Timo]

What strikes me as creepy is thinking that Bashir would even consider refusing. What possible reason would he have to refuse the treatment? It supposedly poses no risk to the patient, is fully reversible just like every Trek medical operation, and in the bold future, it doesn't result in expenses, either.

A doctor who refuses to lend his patient the use of a hairbrush and a mirror because that's not part of his job as a doctor is simply an unlikeable character (not that there should be anything wrong with such, mind you). Moreso if what he's refusing is clearly part of his competence set. "I won't give you what makes you happy because I don't have to" is normal human interaction, but it establishes the character as somebody to be avoided. Especially if there's professionalism involved and expected.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I thought his most questionable medical decision was what he did to Worf's brother.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Then there's Sarina, the augment. She gets preferential treatment from the other mutants, then after they kiss Bashir offers her a trip to Risa with him for a week when it's clear she can't think clearly because of all the new thalamic connections in her head. Yes Bashir, let's take our delicate patient to the orgy planet of the quadrant to "relax." It's like he's trying to create his perfect mate by healing this woman in a way that suits his needs. The mutants tell Bashir she's now in a catatonic state because of the romantic feelings he has shown her. So what does he do in response? Professes his love for her ever more, which upsets her. I think this episode with Sarina is Bashir's creepiness at it's worst.

Haven't come to Ezri Dax's relationship with Bashir in my rewatch yet... I think its very late in season 7. Looking forward to some more creepy scenes between the two of them. Oh man - that IS going to be creepy because Jadzia rejects him years before and then it's like he gets the last laugh by chasing after her AGAIN in a different body!! Oh Bashir... [Picard facepalm]​

From what I can remember, the Sarina love story is at least justifiable in that O'Brien sits him down and tells him what he needs to hear. He learn's from his experiences. But you're right in that he is creepy a whole load of other times. Especially with Ezri (in Afterimage she tells him that if Jadzia never met Worf, then he would have been the one for her), I'm so glad they split up in the relaunch novels.

Another weirdie: When Quark requests a sudden sex change operation, for business reasons, casually, out of the blue, on impulse, Bashir naturally just goes ahead and does it (offscreen). Who wouldn't? Was there even a discussion?

This episode could have been a great way to discuss transgenderism, but nope, lets laugh at the woman who used to be a man and is only doing so for convenience. Plus the fact Quark does it so casually (and it's reversible), that's Star Trek being creepy.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

DS9 did seem to show Julian making questionable medical decisions a LOT. On Tribbles, on the turbo lift, he makes an argument that a temporal paradox might require him to have sex with the crew woman they just met, and why? Because she might be his great, great grandmother. Forget how that's genetic nonsense, since your DNA + someone else's won't eventually lead to exactly your DNA again. I would think. He wants to go have sex with a relative, with that as its own justification, that's the thing.

Just thought, I could have sworn this would be poking fun at Futurama if this episode hadn't come first, so now I'm wondering if Futurama (where Fry actually is his own grandad because of time travel) was actually poking fun at Dr. Bashir all along??)

 

[Timo]

More like both tackling the same ages-old joke... It's a fairly obvious one, really. "Grandfather paradox" is suggestive enough a name, even if misleadingly so.

But how was Kurn "Bashir's" decision? Bashir got the consent of both the patient and his next of kin. In his time and age, assisting in suicide is apparently not frowned upon. This is ever-so-slightly less than assisted suicide.

Even though Star Trek features an episode titled "Hippocratic Oath", such an oath does not actually seem to play a role in 24th century medicine. And Bashir is a regular gunslinger in addition to being an MD. Doing selective harm is part of Bashir's job description, and here he's doing that. Is that exceptional and characteristic of him only? Probaby not, considering that all of the 24th century medic characters have performed mindwipes, often without consent; it's no wonder Dax so readily comes up with the suggestion.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tosk]

But you're right in that he is creepy a whole load of other times. Especially with Ezri (in Afterimage she tells him that if Jadzia never met Worf, then he would have been the one for her)

How does her telling him that make him creepy?

 

[MadeIndescribable]

How does her telling him that make him creepy?

I'll admit that Ezri herself crosses the line in terms of her previous hosts feelings/relationships, and regrets saying this straigh aftert, but it's almost as if Julian exploits this. We spent six years seeing Bashir pine for Jadzia, but, at least I don't remember seeing any, without any evidence of him falling for Ezri as an individual rather than an extension of Jadzia?

 

[Nyotarules]

I thought his most questionable medical decision was what he did to Worf's brother.

Better his brother commit suicide instead right?

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Better his brother commit suicide instead right?

Commiting suicide (or at least attempting to) was Kurn's conscious choice as determined by his beliefs and traditions. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I saw that episode), but didn't Bashir perform the procedure without Kurn's knowledge or consent?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Better his brother commit suicide instead right?

That's basically what happened. Seemed almost like a lobotomy to me. And the TC specified Bashir acting "creepy" and for me this rated as that.

 

[Nyotarules]

Commiting suicide (or at least attempting to) was Kurn's conscious choice as determined by his beliefs and traditions. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I saw that episode), but didn't Bashir perform the procedure without Kurn's knowledge or consent?

He had Worf's consent and I might be wrong but in Klingon culture the older sibling is to be obeyed or something, since Worf was head of the house. He did not need Kurn's consent.

 

[stardream]

What strikes me as creepy is thinking that Bashir would even consider refusing. What possible reason would he have to refuse the treatment? It supposedly poses no risk to the patient, is fully reversible just like every Trek medical operation, and in the bold future, it doesn't result in expenses, either.

A doctor who refuses to lend his patient the use of a hairbrush and a mirror because that's not part of his job as a doctor is simply an unlikeable character (not that there should be anything wrong with such, mind you). Moreso if what he's refusing is clearly part of his competence set. "I won't give you what makes you happy because I don't have to" is normal human interaction, but it establishes the character as somebody to be avoided. Especially if there's professionalism involved and expected.

Timo Saloniemi

This is a bit of an aside to the topic but I have always wondered something about B'Elanna. If her forehead ridges bothered her that much, why not have them removed? It's possible in the 24th century.

 

[Timo]

Picard also sometimes minded his external indications of advancing age. He did nothing about it, though (as far as we know). Perhaps Torres found greater psychological satisfaction in griping than in acting?

Kurn's consent is left ill-defined in the episode. Kurn somehow gets to the Infirmary and is seen lying on Bashir's table, eyes closed and unreactive to the discussion around him. Is this in direct continuation of him falling asleep from all the drinking? We don't know. If so, he cannot have given his consent - but he could just as well have been interviewed and then again allowed to sleep, or sedated.

Heck, several days may have passed - Noggra is arriving in "a few hours", and it supposedly takes longer from Klingon space to DS9 usually. What are the odds that Noggra, a supposed rare ally of the House of Mogh, would have been in the vicinity already?

When Bashir asks for Worf's consent, it doesn't unambiguously tell us whether he already has Kurn's. If Worf objected, this might make Bashir halt the operation even if Kurn had already given his consent.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nakita Akita]

Dr. Bashir is a creep. His sexual interest in women seems to generate when it is least needed - when she is in need of medical attention.

I love DS9. I've been enjoying rewatching it these past couple of months but it's become impossible to ignore Bashir's inappropriate advances toward his patients, those in a position of trust. I'm sure many of you Niners have noticed this. Riker creeps too, but he's not a doctor. Lwaxana creeps but I'm pretty sure she's doing it out of her own amusement - watching Picard squirm, etc. and she's got the telepathy to know how everyone really feels anyway. This is strictly a medical ethics viewpoint - Bashir's not the creepiest character in Trek, but for a Doctor, I think he's in a class all his own.

Bashir has many fine qualities and he is heroic and generally tries to be a good person - but his sense of medical ethics is fundamentally warped. Starfleet Medical doesn't seem to give a vole's ass. It doesn't seem to bother Sisko or anyone else in command, either. He's surrounded by enablers!

First, Bashir starts on Jadzia, whom he spends most of the first season flirting with. Not too much of a red flag, at least there he's not treating a patient. The early scene in Emmisary where he's trying to ask her out after getting off the runabout is cute. And they at least are the same rank, I believe, Lt. junior grade.

Then there's Melora, the woman with the gravity chair. He invades her quarters to creep her: "is that your boyfriend in the picture?" She wants to discontinue his treatment after they become romantically involved, at which point he erupts at her in anger. I mean, that's totally fucking inappropriate, right? They end the episode on a warm note between the two, but it's still weird.

Leeta. Great, someone who isn't a patient. Although, she initially does try to feign having a cough around him to get his attention. She's too good for him. Glad she shacks up with Nog at the end. I'm actually a big fan of the Leeta/Bashir 'ship. Certainly an amusing storyline with no distracting ethical breaches.

Then there's Sarina, the augment. She gets preferential treatment from the other mutants, then after they kiss Bashir offers her a trip to Risa with him for a week when it's clear she can't think clearly because of all the new thalamic connections in her head. Yes Bashir, let's take our delicate patient to the orgy planet of the quadrant to "relax." It's like he's trying to create his perfect mate by healing this woman in a way that suits his needs. The mutants tell Bashir she's now in a catatonic state because of the romantic feelings he has shown her. So what does he do in response? Professes his love for her ever more, which upsets her. I think this episode with Sarina is Bashir's creepiness at it's worst.

Haven't come to Ezri Dax's relationship with Bashir in my rewatch yet... I think its very late in season 7. Looking forward to some more creepy scenes between the two of them. Oh man - that IS going to be creepy because Jadzia rejects him years before and then it's like he gets the last laugh by chasing after her AGAIN in a different body!! Oh Bashir... [Picard facepalm]​

Did I miss anyone?
The look on that face says it all: I'm not getting laid tonight.

I also would have thought the actor, Siddig, would have found some of these character choices unflattering, but apparently not. He was upset about the secretly genetically modified plot changing his character retroactively. http://trekmovie.com/2010/05/06/ale...nger-over-changes-to-bashir-character-on-ds9/

Doctor Bashir!! Stop kissing your patients on the lips. Good god, man.

In one of the instance, either Sarina or the girl in the wheelchair, Bashir says that he has turned treatment over to Dr. So and So
Because they were now dating.

It's not unreasonable. If you were receiving medical treatment but then you and the Dr. Decided that you would like to date, not really a big deal.