Don't get "The Visitor'?

[omnirad]

I have been taking my partner Ron (not a sci-fi fan) through all of Trek chronologically for the past two years. He really likes TOS, and have shown him the best of the newer shows. I thought he would really like DS9's 'The Visitor', but he hated it.
It was too 'out there', and he couldn't relate to characters in an alternate future he felt wasn't real. Ben Sisko wasn't really dead so it left him cold. And I don't think he bought Tony Todd as the older Jake. How could I have misjudged his reaction so badly?

 

[sonak]

Don't feel bad about not getting the reaction you hoped for. That's a very good choice of an episode to get someone into DS9, it's among the top five in the series IMHO.


Yeah, it's more high-concept sci-fi than the more politically-oriented DS9 episodes, but it is Trek, so you've got to sprinkle in that time travel.

I like that Ben seems to retain the memory of the alternate timeline, so it's not a total reset button.


Although the message is somewhat sabotaged by the end of WYLB, because Ben does end up leaving Jake anyway, although with more closure that time.


Whether someone likes a particular film, episode, etc. is highly subjective. Still a good choice overall.

 

[omnirad]

We have watched most of the DS9 episodes up to this point in the series.

 

[sonak]

well then ignore the part about it being a good intro to DS9 rather than just a great episode overall.


Also, I'll have to hone my reading comprehension skills.

 

[omnirad]

(Didn't mean to be snarky Sonak.)
I think 'The Visitor' makes a better impression after having seen most of the episodes up to that point than as a cold introduction. I showed him 'Little Green Men' up front since he likes 30's and 40's movies, and that show needed little back ground info, but it still had time travel...

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

IMO The Visitor is potentially mawkish. Not the time travel parts but the young girl visiting old Jake parts. However this is simply not a factor if you have a strong love of the characters of Jake and his dad, and their relationship. Then it's rather humbling to see old Jake and his burdens, and rather breathtaking to see the resolution.

 

[omnirad]

Ron wasn't bothered by any potential 'mawkishness', it was the 'high concept' flash back from the future with trans-dimensional un-time limbo death that threw him for a loop.
I think he had a similar problem with TNG's 'Inner Light'. The sci-fi over shadowed the human drama.
Maybe I should skip "Children of Time' and "Far Beyond the Stars', but I'd hate to do THAT...

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Ron wasn't bothered by any potential 'mawkishness', it was the 'high concept' flash back from the future with trans-dimensional un-time limbo death that threw him for a loop.

Well. That's just shallow.

 

[intrinsical]

I too also made the mistake of showing The Visitor to a non-trekkie friend as an introduction to DS9 and Star Trek. While he understood the story, he found it hard to believe this is one of the best Trek episodes. In fact, he felt the episode was ploddingly slow and boring.

I later realized that the episode assumes the audience is already emotionally invested in the loving father-son relationship and does little to establish the relationship within the episode itself. So a new viewer may not have the necessary emotional attachment to feel for the sacrifice the elderly Jake Sisko made for his father.

 

[exalted one]

Frankly, I never understood what's the fuss about "The Visitor." It's yet another of those "let's change everything, but without any consequences" filler episodes I grew to hate so much about modern Trek.

It's still the same over and over again: - "It was a dream." - "It was an illusion." - "It was an alternate timeline." - "It was an alien test." -"It was a holodeck failure." Guess what, if it ain't real, I don't care. If the story isn't good enough to be a permanent part of the lore, then there isn't any point in telling it.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Anything with a "fathers and sons" or "parent and child" angle gets me if done well and this episode definitely is. Shame your partner didn't get something out of it.

 

[Kirby]

I'm with you Sean Aaron all of those father and sons/parent and child stories get me too. I tear up almost everytime I watch The Visitor.

I ought to watch a double feature of The Visitor and Field of Dreams.

 

[Marie1]

I think Tony Todd is a good actor, but as much as I like DS9, The Visitor is one of my least favourite episodes. Some parents and kids love each other... great, but I'd skip the episode if I was watching the series through in syndication again.

 

[indolover]

I don't like it. It's too mushy and soppy for me.

My favourite in season 4 is The Way of the Warrior, not just one of the great DS9 episodes, but an all-time great Trek episode.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I'm with you Sean Aaron all of those father and sons/parent and child stories get me too. I tear up almost everytime I watch The Visitor.

I ought to watch a double feature of The Visitor and Field of Dreams.

Two boxes of kleenex for me, please!

 

[Creatre]

I just happened to get to this episode last night while watching DS9 beginning to end. I read this thread going into it, so I had a feeling I wasn't going to like it since I disliked a few of the other talked up episodes on these forums.

However, it is by far one of my favorite episodes. It is extremely moving, and episodes like these are the reason I watch Star Trek. I still like TNG's Inner Light more, but this is probably my 2nd favorite episode of any Star Trek series. I can't wait to finish DS9 through the end so I can go back and watch this episode again.

 

[Kirby]

Glad you liked it Creatre I'm with you on Inner Light as well, although I'd probably flip my order of preference between the two. Just seeing Jake give up everything in his life, and ultimately give up his life itself to bring back his Dad is very moving.
A lot of people complain that it's a reset button episode, but this one has the emotional elements of scarafice that the other reset episodes didn't have. Picard lived a very happy life in Inner Light, while Jake didn't, he was tortured by his obsession.

Sure it was a little cheesy with the young woman and the dark and stormy night motif, and Tony Todd didn't look exactly like an old version of Cirroc Lofton, but at least they didn't try to put Cirroc in old-age makeup. Todd did a nice job of acting in this one too, I really felt his anguish.

 

[JayOwl]

Strange. I loved The Visitor when I first watched it because it interested me and made me cry at the same time. It was only after I found that many people loved it, and now it seems that half the people posting in this thread dislike it .

Well, it's my favorite from season four, and that's saying a lot.

 

[Creatre]

I think people are looking for the storyline to continue, and feel like episodes like these are out of place. Those episodes that go into alternate timelines where everyone is evil, or something similar, I think are filler episodes and aren't good enough to warrant the change. But for episodes that are deep and look into important parts of humans, and evaluate the nature of human beings, is one of the best parts of Star Trek. I just wish there were a few more episodes that were like these.

And FYI, one of the minor reasons I like Inner Light better is because Stewart did most of the acting and was able to shine as an actor a bit more. I wish they could have used one of the current actors in the Visitor better instead of bringing in someone fresh. Not that it was poorly acted, I just think it would have added a bit more character.

 

[Eddie Roth]

The Visitor is excellent not because it's a What If kind of narrative with weird sci-fi elements, but because of its character story. I had never been invested much in the Sisko father-son angle, nor had I ever been convinced that having Jake as a regular character was such a good idea. But this show moves me like no other Star Trek episode. That is centrally because its core conceit - you think you lost someone, he comes back, only to be taken away again - is one that everybody who's ever loved someone, be that a partner or a parent or a child, is able to connect to. It's heartbreaking. A beautiful idea for a story, well-realized.