Did the Enterprise-D not live up to its reputation?

[indolover]

The Enterprise-D, as a Galaxy-class vessel, was supposed to be the most advanced ship in all of Starfleet (which we saw in DS9 totalled thousands of vessels).

Yet, when faced with comparable opponents, the Enterprise-D never could hold its own. It never got into a serious battle with a Romulan Warbird, nearly got destroyed by the Tamarians, and only knocked out the Cardassians' weapons (in the Wounded) since Gul Moset's ship was probably a lesser Cardassian ship class. So even though the Enterprise was the Federation flagship, how come it never beat a good opponent?

 

[Flashover]

The Enterprise-D, as a Galaxy-class vessel, was supposed to be the most advanced ship in all of Starfleet (which we saw in DS9 totalled thousands of vessels).

Yet, when faced with comparable opponents, the Enterprise-D never could hold its own. It never got into a serious battle with a Romulan Warbird, nearly got destroyed by the Tamarians, and only knocked out the Cardassians' weapons (in the Wounded) since Gul Moset's ship was probably a lesser Cardassian ship class. So even though the Enterprise was the Federation flagship, how come it never beat a good opponent?

Picard was a diplomat and explorer not a warrior. He didn't shoot to kill unless he had no other option.

It's not a failure of the ship class itself but a reflection of her captain.

You have a ship this powerful capable of so much... you want someone with restraint as captain, not someone who is going around liquidating Romulans and mowing down lesser races "just because."

That's not what "Star Trek" is all about.

 

[Saquist]

Ships the Galaxy has beaten

K'Vort Bird of Prey
Galor
Borg Cube
Renegade Borg

The list isn't long. TNG wasn't a show about starship battles and their were family aboard. Aside from the obvious plot jokes...The Galaxy did what it was supposed to do but Picard wasn't fire first and ask questions later type.

 

[Warped9]

In the real world it comes down to writing and script intent. In the TNG world neither Picard nor Riker were genuinely good at starship combat.

Kirk really knew his crew and his ship and if pressed he was ready and capable to dice it up with any takers. But the TNG crew were never shown to have that capacity. Kirk was fast on his feet and Picard and Riker not so much.

It's really how they chose to draw the characters.

 

[Vanyel]

In the real world it comes down to writing and script intent. In the TNG world neither Picard nor Riker were genuinely good at starship combat.

Kirk really knew his crew and his ship and if pressed he was ready and capable to dice it up with any takers. But the TNG crew were never shown to have that capacity. Kirk was fast on his feet and Picard and Riker not so much.

It's really how they chose to draw the characters.

I would have to disagree, Picard knew the combat capabilities of his ship and crew. He only ran from battle when necessary (Data's Day is a good example). Otherwise he held his ground when needed. He never fired first but always finished a battle. He stood toe to toe with a Romulan Warbird, and dared risk lowering his shields to as a sign of good faith to rescue LaForge and a Romulan.. Riker took the ship into battle against a ship stealing parts from a Federation grave yard and won.

The only problem in most cases he was out numbered, out gunned (The survivors) or able to prevent a fight (A brilliant move in The Defector).

 

[YARN]

The Enterprise-D, as a Galaxy-class vessel, was supposed to be the most advanced ship in all of Starfleet (which we saw in DS9 totalled thousands of vessels).

Yet, when faced with comparable opponents, the Enterprise-D never could hold its own. It never got into a serious battle with a Romulan Warbird, nearly got destroyed by the Tamarians, and only knocked out the Cardassians' weapons (in the Wounded) since Gul Moset's ship was probably a lesser Cardassian ship class. So even though the Enterprise was the Federation flagship, how come it never beat a good opponent?

I give it a letter grade of "D."

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The Yamato got taken out by a computer virus & the Odessey by a kamikaze Jem-Hadar fighter, so there's some on screen evidence of the class being weak in some respects.

 

[Vanyel]

The Yamato got taken out by a computer virus & the Odessey by a kamikaze Jem-Hadar fighter, so there's some on screen evidence of the class being weak in some respects.

As far as the Odyssey is concerned, how many ships would survive being rammed, in the engineering section by a large ship? And remember the Odyssey did have its shields down since the Dominion's weapons were passing through them like they weren't there and the power the shields used could be better used for weapons, so there was nothing to even slow it down.

 

[DonIago]

Nevermind the damage the Odyssey had taken to that point...for all we know they were 5 minutes from a warp core breach under the best of circumstances.

 

[Saquist]

The Yamato got taken out by a computer virus & the Odessey by a kamikaze Jem-Hadar fighter, so there's some on screen evidence of the class being weak in some respects.

That doesn't mean anything in this discussion.

 

[YARN]

How many times is the Enterprise D overmatched?

Don't stop here though....

It is meaningless to include "threats" from ships from pre-warp cultures or which are 100 years behind in technology, because the Enterprise is meant to meet the threats of her own time and place.

Instead, count up all the times the Enterprise D meets a threat from a civilization which is, at least, on a par with threats of her time and place (e.g., Romulan, Kilingon, Ferengi ships).

What does this mean? EXAMPLES:

A fair test is a Galaxy class ship against a TNG era Romulan warship.

An unfair test would be a Galaxy class ship vs. a TMP era Klingon "Bird of Prey."

Don't stop here though....

With this information (number of overmatched encounters and number of significant encounters) we can compute a ratio, an average, showing what percentage of the time the Galaxy class Enterprise holds her own.

For comparison compute similar ratios for the TOS Enterprise (which was the flagship of its time and which had enough screen time for a meaningful comparison). If the success rate (ratio) for the TOS Enterprise is significantly higher than that of the Enterprise D, then give it the mark of shame.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The alternate universe in "Yesterday's Enterprise" aside, I don't recall any mention of the Enterprise-D being designed as the ultimate warship. At best, she was a big multipurpose starship assigned frequently to various high profile missions that ranged from exploration, to diplomatic, to defensive, to even logistical. She seemed to be more advanced in that she could perform a wide range of deep-space assignments, but I don't think she was a truly dedicated ship at anything--the old saying "a jack of all trades, but a master at none" comes to mind for me.

I think the systems that were "boasted" about the most were her computer system and engines, not her tactical systems. She may have carried the latest weapons in the Starfleet inventory at the time, but the same could be said for any vessel, IMO.

For what it's worth, I think the Enterprise-D did more in her short seven years than most ships do during their full operational lifetime. She left her mark in Federation history in cases of both exploration and defense. In that regard, the Enterprise-D was worthy of its reputation as a bearer of the Enterprise legacy.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Ships the Galaxy has beaten

K'Vort Bird of Prey
Galor
Borg Cube
Renegade Borg

The list isn't long. TNG wasn't a show about starship battles and their were family aboard. Aside from the obvious plot jokes...The Galaxy did what it was supposed to do but Picard wasn't fire first and ask questions later type.

That's quite a list you know. How many ships have actually survived an encounter with Borg Cubes or Renegade Borg ships?

Fact is, the Galaxy-Class was NOT designed for combat, but as a multi-purpose heavy explorer which would opperate for 20 years in deep space without having to rely on a starbase.

It is not fair to compare it to warships like the Defiant- and Sovereign-Class, which were build for combat.

 

[Warped9]

Another thing occurs to me. In TOS we had the familiar Enterprise fanfare music whenever we saw the ship and the fact the writers (through the characters) romanticised the ship. This was telegraphed directly to the viewers such that we couldn't miss picking up on it. Even today whenever I think of the TOS Enterprise I hear that music in my head---an emotional response is triggered.

TNG never really romanticized the E-D. Even though it was dimensionally a much larger ship than the TOS E it rarely if ever felt larger-than-life. The audience didn't have the same emotional connection. Hence the differing perspective.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^
A lot of that also had to due with Kirk and Scotty being rather possessive of the original Enterprise (in their own ways) and constantly regarding her as if she was a person. In comparison, Picard and LaForge were a bit more objective about the Enterprise-D, IMO.

 

[MikeS]

TNG never really romanticized the E-D. Even though it was dimensionally a much larger ship than the TOS E it rarely if ever felt larger-than-life. The audience didn't have the same emotional connection. Hence the differing perspective.

I had an emotional connection to the ship. But your signature may explain why you didn't.

The OP may be better asking if the Galaxy Class lived up to its billing, because IMO the E-D definitely did. Just look at it lists of "firsts" on memory-alpha.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Another thing occurs to me. In TOS we had the familiar Enterprise fanfare music whenever we saw the ship and the fact the writers (through the characters) romanticised the ship. This was telegraphed directly to the viewers such that we couldn't miss picking up on it. Even today whenever I think of the TOS Enterprise I hear that music in my head---an emotional response is triggered.

TNG never really romanticized the E-D. Even though it was dimensionally a much larger ship than the TOS E it rarely if ever felt larger-than-life. The audience didn't have the same emotional connection. Hence the differing perspective.

Speak for yourself here... I had an emotional connection to the ship, when I was 12 and saw GENERATIONS in the cinema I was really depressed that they killed by favorite ship.
I never really cared about the TOS Enterprise at all.

 

[Warped9]

^^ It isn't just me. I vividly recall the reaction of many in the audience when the saw the Enterprise destroyed in The Search For Spock up on the big screen. A lot of people, including me, were visibly moved and bothered by it. Now flash forward some years to Generations when we witnessed the E-D being wrecked and I actually heard cheers and exclamations from members of the audience---quite a different reaction.

GR and the TOS writers projected their ideas of how some pilots and seamen develop feelings toward their ships. Individuals have been known to do the same thing with their cars. That wasn't done with the TNG E as it was handled as little more than another piece of hardware.

I didn't hate or dislike the E-D, but the writers failed to make it seem larger-than-life or give it any sense of real presence. It's simply how the ship was presented onscreen. And note that I wasn't one of the ones cheering when it was wrecked. On the flip side I didn't feel moved by it either.

 

[MikeS]

I vividly recall the reaction of many in the audience when the saw the Enterprise destroyed in The Search For Spock up on the big screen. A lot of people, including me, were visibly moved and bothered by it.

But wasn't that movie released after 1979?

 

[Warped9]

I vividly recall the reaction of many in the audience when the saw the Enterprise destroyed in The Search For Spock up on the big screen. A lot of people, including me, were visibly moved and bothered by it.

But wasn't that movie released after 1979?

Yes, but in TMP director Robert Wise continued the TOS practice of romanticising the ship (as evidenced by the long beauty view of it before its relaunch). So the feelings we viewers had for the TOS E had been successfully transfered to the TMP refit E of the films. And so when we saw it destroyed in TSFS a lot of us were bothered by it because we saw the refit as the same ship we had loved all those years.