Did Janeway torture Paris in "Thirty Days"?

[hux]

I'm still not convinced. Janeway had no idea how long their trip home would take, so length of sentence is a non-issue. Therefore, why does a serial killer like Suder deserve a more 'humane' sentence than a loyal officer like Paris?

At that point, they believed it would take up to 70 years so the brig was unrealistic as a permanent residence. Janeway discussed the options (including the fact that Suder was willing to die) and decided that confinement to quarters was the only sensible choice.

Tom on the other hand, was being disciplined.

 

[urbandefault]

Exactly. So why not confine Suder to the brig?

He wasn't going anywhere.

Paris' punishment had to be punishment.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Suders quarters were reclassified as a new brig.

In the case of Suder, they'd be reinforcing his doors, and putting force fields bewteen the walls.

With Paris, they might not have locked the cell.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

He wasn't going anywhere.

Paris' punishment had to be punishment.

And Suder's DIDN'T?

Why doesn't Suder deserve to be punished even more than Paris? Why does Suder deserve to have access to food replicators, sonic showers, and a comfortable bed (which are standard in all Starfleet crew quarters) and Paris doesn't?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Suder broke a federation law on federation soil and the Morally superior Captain serviced him lawfully to be judged and punished.

Assholes were committing ecological suicide and autogenocide because they're dicks. because he saved them, Janeway kidnapped Paris form the abused party inflicted on by Paris being condescending with photon torpedoes, and running.

Paris was being punished for disobeying Janeways orders, but no one was being punished for nuking the power station, to which Janeway would be an accomplice after the fact, as she aided and abetted his exit, and then shot at any police men or women thinking that Janeway and Paris needed to be dragged to spacemerman jail

 

[borgboy]

Plus, isn't there a guard there at all times?

He obviously isn't there when the brig is empty so presumably he has to abandon his other duties whenever someone gets banged up. Then again, what are most security officers doing all day anyway?

No really, when Janeway says "intruder alert, security to deck nine" what were those guys doing? Just walking about the ship?

I have wondered that before too. I'd think they'd spend a lot of time training and working out, but it does seem like there'd still be a lot of down time for security. You'd think with Voyager a little understaffed they'd double up on duties in other areas of the ship.
I re watched that episode recently, and I did think Paris's treatment was harsh. I don't even think he had a proper book reader or anything. I got the impression the pad he was given was set up only to let him write the letter to his dad.
No proper exercise area, the most basic food for survival only.
But the serial killer got a cushy set up in his quarters.

 

[RoJoHen]

And Suder's DIDN'T?

Why doesn't Suder deserve to be punished even more than Paris? Why does Suder deserve to have access to food replicators, sonic showers, and a comfortable bed (which are standard in all Starfleet crew quarters) and Paris doesn't?

Because she had come to expect more from Tom, and she was disappointed and pissed off.

 

[tomalak301]

Because she had come to expect more from Tom, and she was disappointed and pissed off.

So she let personal feelings cloud her judgement. Didn't think a Captain could do that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Hmm.

Some people I play Monopoly with insist that you can collect rent in jail, others say that that is against the rules.

Was Tom still collecting replicator rations while he was locked away unable to use replicator rations in the brig?

Either he'd amassed a healthy surplus by the point of his release, or every other bugger in the crew got an extra 5 rations a day because Tom had been kicked out of the community chest.

Actually, every time Janeway got a goldshirt murdered, the survivors rations increased, it seems like pushing you crewmates into the path of certain death is "fiscally" rewarding.

 

[RoJoHen]

No wonder they all seemed to be living so comfortably towards the end. Hell, Tom didn't even want to leave!

 

[RoJoHen]

So she let personal feelings cloud her judgement. Didn't think a Captain could do that.

Have you seen Janeway? She's nothing but one big personal feeling.

 

[Paradise City]

Captain Kathryn Bligh

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If there was any indication that some of the perks that normal Starfleet crew enjoy, such as replicators, could be disabled during Suder's incarceration (i.e. that the replicators in Suder's quarters were taken offline so that he was only entitled to basic nutrition just like Paris was), I guess it wouldn't be so bad.

Did they ever touch upon this in the episodes where Suder was confined to quarters? I can't remember...

 

[tomalak301]

Have you seen Janeway? She's nothing but one big personal feeling.

Kind of hypocritical considering she was always trying to push Starfleet values and rules. Maybe she should have listened to Seska.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If there was any indication that some of the perks that normal Starfleet crew enjoy, such as replicators, could be disabled during Suder's incarceration (i.e. that the replicators in Suder's quarters were taken offline so that he was only entitled to basic nutrition just like Paris was), I guess it wouldn't be so bad.

Did they ever touch upon this in the episodes where Suder was confined to quarters? I can't remember...

I've seen this before. Abusing Prisoners Rights, abrogating the expectation of humane treatment is criminal behaviour as well, that in itself earns jail time. You can't make prison food shitter, just because you can, especially if it takes more energy to make bad food than it does to make good food, which it might not.

Seriously, how can you tell someone that they will be punished harder if they dare eat chocolate?

JANEWAY: The last time we welcomed you aboard, you took advantage of our trust. You betrayed this crew. I won't make that mistake again. Noah Lessing, Marla Gilmore, James Morrow, Brian Sofin, Angelo Tassoni, you are hereby stripped of rank. You'll be expected to serve as crewmen on this vessel. Your privileges will be limited, and you'll serve under close supervision for as long as I deem fit. This time, you'll have to earn our trust. Dismissed.

I guess it depends on your definition of Privileges.

 

[hux]

Janeway views the brig as a short term prison so believes confinement to quarters is the only realistic long term option.

I love Tuvok's passive aggressive line at the end of this dialogue.

JANEWAY: The brig is the closest thing we have. But I don't think we can just leave him down in our dungeon for the rest of the trip.
TUVOK: Nor would it be appropriate to leave him in the custody of someone in this quadrant.
JANEWAY: I agree.
TUVOK: Captain, he is prepared to die for his crime.
JANEWAY: An execution? You're not seriously suggesting that we
TUVOK: I only mention it because of the extenuating circumstances, and because he feels it would be an appropriate punishment.
JANEWAY: I don't. I prefer to rehabilitate him, not to end his life. We'll confine him to quarters. Work with Kim to install maximum security containment.
TUVOK: Pardon me, Captain, but allowing him the comfort of his own quarters doesn't seem an appropriate punishment for murder.
JANEWAY: If we don't get home soon, he'll be in that room a long time, Mister Tuvok. I think this is the best we can do under these circumstances.
TUVOK: Crewman Darwin's three sisters might not agree.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

You guys are way overthinking this. I think just the writers just see being held in the brig as the standard Trek punishment for things. The writers tortured Paris, not Janeway.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

You guys are way overthinking this. I think just the writers just see being held in the brig as the standard Trek punishment for things. The writers tortured Paris, not Janeway.

Exactly. Sometimes this forum just loves to bash Janeway for whatever reason. We don't actually get to sit with Tomf or 30 days anyway, there isn't anything to suggest that he isn't given some kind of respite/entertainment etc.

I am quite a fan of Janeway so I understand I am coming at things from a different angle than those who dislike her, but I always found her methods were quite fair. She consistently handles Tom in a harsher way [than say, Kim] because Tom has a different attitude and life experience than most of the others. If Tom does something to warrant punishment, he really isn't the sort who is going to learn anything from a gentle slap on the wrist.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He didn't get a trial.

Janeway just randomly determined punishment without due process.

So what if he admitted to what he did, and there were witnesses.

The law is a process of checks and balances to make sure that no one is being abused or short shifted.

Yes, Janeway has the power to confine anyone to their quarters or send them to the brig on her ship. One step off Voyager and Federation Law does not apply, and Captains prerogative is for shit.

But those super powers to impound people have nothing to do with this specific crime and the justice necessary to placate the rage of the Darwin Sisters.

Even if he had spent 70 years in the brig, that is an unassociated punishment from Janeway, not an expression of the law in response to a murder. If he'd gotten home, Lon would still have to face trial and deal with judgement and penalties.

 

[Paradise City]

I don't dislike Janeway. It's just the wild inconsistencies in her behaviour and decision making are funny to make note of and to wrangle over.

Offscreen they wanted to inject some grit back into the Paris character as he'd gone a bit lame. I think it was McNeil himself who pushed for it. However, I don't think it had any lasting effect on the character really.