Did Future's End Wipe The Eugenics Wars Timeline?

[hux]

Braxton gets sent to the late sixties; his presence immediately impacts upon Henry starling.

Voyager -- existing in a reality where the Eugenics Wars occurred -- is pulled back too but ends up in the NEW non-eugenics wars 1990's (this reality having been created by Braxton's earlier presence).

Starling sets in motion, the technology age we're currently experiencing. Something obviously happens/happened that changes things slightly and he is removed from the equation (replaced by Steve Jobs, Bill Gates etc).

Hence the Eugenics Wars did not happen. The 90's that we know (a similar version at least) replaced that reality.

Also, what the hell kind of temporal policy is... they caused a time problem so... let's just kill them.

JANEWAY:Why are you firing at us?
BRAXTON: Your vessel is responsible for a disaster in my century. A temporal explosion that will destroy all Earth's solar system. I've come back in time to prevent that occurrence. My mission is your destruction. You must not resist.

Was Braxton already time crazy at this point? I find it hard to believe that the temporal integrity commission would just go about killing people to fix time.

Sidenote: Why is it when humans go undercover on a planet, they get highly advanced (yet harmless) cosmetic surgery but when Vulcans go undercover on Earth... they get a hat?

Feel free to bring up anything else related to Future's End.

 

[Finn]

Why didn't anybody mention this? Especially Paris who claimed to know so much about the 20th Century.

 

[Kilana2]

There were aliens among Earth's population long before Braxton arrived and Starling got greedy.

 

[Paradise City]

It may have been delayed. In the DS9 episode where Bashir gets unmasked as a superman (ha, ha), when pronouncing sentence upon his dad, Admiral Whatshisface gives a 200 years ago figure IIRC. It certainly wasn't the 90s according to Whatshisface.

 

[Lynx]

Yes, it did.

Since we never experienced any Eugenics War in the 1990:s, it's logical to assume that Starling's dabbling with time resulted in the Eugenic war never happened or at least was postponed 100 years or so.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It may have been delayed. In the DS9 episode where Bashir gets unmasked as a superman (ha, ha), when pronouncing sentence upon his dad, Admiral Whatshisface gives a 200 years ago figure IIRC.

That was a typo. A mistake, nothing more. Even the writer admitted it. So it's not "binding".

As for the Eugenics Wars: The USA wasn't involved in them. So there's no reason for anyone to see evidence of it when walking around L.A.

And I always got the impression that Braxton, and Starling's "Chronowerx", was part of history all along. A classic predestination paradox. Indeed, while sneaking around Starling's office, Janeway says something about all of the Federation's technology being based on Starling's work...

 

[Kilana2]

That was a typo. A mistake, nothing more. Even the writer admitted it. So it's not "binding".

As for the Eugenics Wars: The USA wasn't involved in them. So there's no reason for anyone to see evidence of it when walking around L.A.

And I always got the impression that Braxton, and Starling's "Chronowerx", was part of history all along. A classic predestination paradox. Indeed, while sneaking around Starling's office, Janeway says something about all of the Federation's technology being based on Starling's work...

I agree. The whole Eugenic Wars business was kind of behind the scenes.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Besides, if Admiral Bennett's line about "200 years ago" had been true, it would have put the Eugenics Wars after the founding of the Federation, and that wouldn't make any sense either.

 

[stardream]

I think it was Ron Moore who admitted making that mistake about the 200 years.

Why didn't anybody mention this? Especially Paris who claimed to know so much about the 20th Century.

Good question...but perhaps Tom knew that California/US wasn't affected by it?

 

[Paradise City]

Well, I don't care what's "binding" really I'm just having a bit fun arguing the toss on the basis of the OP. 200 years ago is still on-screen and could be drafted in to explain the absolute absence of the Eugenics Wars in '96. Whathisface could've meant 250 years ago. It's very high profile in the Trek universe, you'd think even just our heroes on Voyager would note it in some way if it's not in evidence in 90s LA. The pivot of 20th century is a hot war against a eugenics government in the form of Nazi Germany. It should be topical if there are large states around reviving that. But, OK, they could be in secret running nations via puppet government or whatever. It just seems to be straining things a bit.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The "200 years ago" line may have been spoken onscreen, but it doesn't mean anything, since the writers have acknowledged that it was a mistake. Effectively, it never happened.

 

[stardream]

If it's worth anything to anyone there is a series of books about it. I haven't read them but apparently they treat it as a 'secret' war.

"This is my personal screw-up. When I was writing that speech, I was thinking about Khan and somehow his dialog from "Wrath" started floating through my brain: "On Earth... 200 years ago... I was a Prince..." The number 200 just stuck in my head and I put it in the script without making the necessary adjustment for the fact that "Wrath" took place almost a hundred years prior to "Dr. Bashir." I wrote it, I get the blame." (AOL chat,1997) Ron Moore

 

[Paradise City]

The "200 years ago" line may have been spoken onscreen, but it doesn't [bmean[/b] anything, since the writers have acknowledged that it was a mistake. Effectively, it never happened.

A future writer, in the employ of whoever owns Trek at that time, could retrospectively render that authoritative.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ But that will obviously never happen. Not only does it not make sense, but it's such an obscure line that nobody's likely to remember it anyway.

 

[Paradise City]

^ But that will obviously never happen. Not only does it not make sense, but it's such an obscure line that nobody's likely to remember it anyway.

So what? I'm having a fun time arguing the toss on the forum. I'm rowing in behind the spirit that this thread was started in - a light hearted attempt to explain away problems. I'm not on this thread to issue rulings or commanding people to whatever X writers intended.

 

[hux]

There's two issues here.

1) We know that Voyager did not go back to what they knew as the 1990's (since Braxton wasn't part of that timeline) so they definitely went back to a different reality.

2) Khan still happened in the NuTrek timeline and was still genetically enhanced.

This would suggest that Trek09 began (before Nero arrived) in a time line where the Eugenics Wars still happened (so the film started in a timeline that was ALREADY a different reality to the Prime timeline that we know.

Nero's involvement simply created yet another reality but the film actually opens... in a different timeline anyway.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There was a DY-500 Sleeper ship model in Rain's office.

Americans, please look out your window, and tell me how many countries you are currently at war with?

(This article is from 2014.)

US in 134 "Wars" globally.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There's two issues here.

1) We know that Voyager did not go back to what they knew as the 1990's (since Braxton wasn't part of that timeline) so they definitely went back to a different reality.

Before this episode, Voyager's destiny was always leading to towards a 29th century where the Aeon destroyed the Solar System, which means that Braxon and the Aeon were in Kathryn's past from caretaker through to Futures End. What we saw was the end of several cycles where this played out slightly differently every time until finally Earth didn't blow up and Braxton kept his wig. There should have been dozens to hundreds of Braxtons marooned on Earth.

2) Khan still happened in the NuTrek timeline and was still genetically enhanced.

This would suggest that Trek09 began (before Nero arrived) in a time line where the Eugenics Wars still happened (so the film started in a timeline that was ALREADY a different reality to the Prime timeline that we know.

Nero's involvement simply created yet another reality but the film actually opens... in a different timeline anyway.

If Khan was a test tube baby (which is what Greg's novels say), who was 30 something in 1996, the technology to augment him had to have been invented in the early 60s or late 50s, which predates the Aeon's crash in 1969.

If Khan was a base line human child who was augmented into a Superman (Which is what the comics say) then the tech might have been invented after 1969, but it might not have.

 

[hux]

You can write that off as "secret" government advanced technology so it existed but we just didn't know about it.

Why couldn't Khan have been geneticalky fiddled with as a teenager?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm in the US wasn't a battleground in the Eugenics Wars camp. Khan and his people took control of 1/4 of the world, that left 3/4 free, IMO...