Did Ethan Phillips ever object to how Neelix was written?
- Thread starter The Rock
- Start date
I'm guessing not, and that's why Neelix wasn't on the list with Kes and Harry as the characters they writers weren't sure they had any more stories for at the start of season 4.
I always wondered why it was down to those two, and not the obvious choice of Neelix. (I personally like Neelix, but for how unpopular he was, you'd think he'd have gotten the ax.)
Now I'm wondering... is this normal? I mean actors and actresses just playing their parts as well as possible but not having any oversight, for example by watching back (some) finished episodes? I understand that acting in a series can be a draconic job with extremely long days that doesn't leave much time for that, but still I would think they would look back stuff every now and then even if only to evaluate their own performances ...
Depends. Dude had long days under a ton of make-up. He wouldn’t have had much time, and the job was already taking up most of his day. He’s not gonna chill out with some episodes on the weekend.
Neelix was never "unpopular." This "Neelix is so hated" thing feels to me like some kind of "meme" that kicked off after the show ended, like when it also became fashionable for a long time to rant that "Voyager was the worst ST show ever" or "Captain Janeway was the worst captain ever." I'm not saying that some people didn't like him, but that the whole "OMG, everyone hated him; he was the worst ever" is not reflective of the Voyager fan base at large.
Phillips did a great job with the material he was given. I don’t dislike Neelix, but I felt the writers usually focused on the less interesting aspects of his character. Jealousy about Kes, harassing Tuvok to get emotional.
I'll admit I found Neelix annoying during VOY's first run. But after watching episodes on BBC-A recently, I really like the character. He filled the role of "the other" in a way no other Trek character had before. Could he have been given better stories? Sure. But he did a fine job with what he was given.
All I know is that some actors state that they don't watch themselves onscreen, at all -- William Shatner, among them. But he didn't just do his stint on STAR TREK and not stick his nose into other aspects of it. For example, when TAS first came out, he insisted that the format of the show be exactly the same as TOS (him starring) and I can only suppose that was more about career preservation than interest in the show. But I don't know. Lee Cole, a wonderful lady who's worked on STAR TREK movie graphics since TMP stated that Shatner got excited enough to jump up and hug whomever it was, when they came up with the Genesis Device and its terraforming properties. Apparently, Shatner took an active interest in how TWoK, at least, shaped up as a screenplay. It's complicated, I guess, as to how actors appraise themselves and their work. In fact, the only universal I've noticed about Hollywood types is their love of money ...
I never got the Neelix hate. I mean, he was a mildly irritating character, sure. Mostly he was meant to be irritating - irritating to the other characters, that is, with his very "non-Starfleet" ways of doing things. I don't think he was meant to be irritating to the audience.
But the way some people go on about him you'd think he was some sort of... I can't even think of something bad enough to end that with. You watch the SF Debris videos, and there are episodes where Neelix will say something and the guy will practically scream at the screen for minutes afterwards. At a certain point you have to say if it annoys you that much, stop watching the damn show!
I do think they could have handled him better. The idea of him turning into a cook was kind of dumb. He's supposed to be along for his local knowledge, but it's not that often that we see him use it. Whenever a local species shows up, Neelix should be the one explaining who they are and how to deal with them. He should have been on away teams helping them talk to people, that kind of thing. Instead we get him cooking and trying to be morale officer and such. Weird.
But the way some people go on about him you'd think he was some sort of... I can't even think of something bad enough to end that with. You watch the SF Debris videos, and there are episodes where Neelix will say something and the guy will practically scream at the screen for minutes afterwards. At a certain point you have to say if it annoys you that much, stop watching the damn show!
I do think they could have handled him better. The idea of him turning into a cook was kind of dumb. He's supposed to be along for his local knowledge, but it's not that often that we see him use it. Whenever a local species shows up, Neelix should be the one explaining who they are and how to deal with them. He should have been on away teams helping them talk to people, that kind of thing. Instead we get him cooking and trying to be morale officer and such. Weird.
Even if Ethan Philips has not had the chance to show the full extent of his talent through Neelix's character, Jetrel, Fair Trade, etc... already gave an idea.
As for his opinion about Neelix's character and how this latter was screwed during the series (the romantic relationships between Neelix and Kes* in first 3 seasons then, afterwards, with Naomie and finally with Borg children, was particularly -> being super friendly is one thing, pass for a pedophile because we like to spend time with children, is another!), does not seem to be particularly bothered or distressed, although I'm pretty sure that some fan mails had to address him, some form of discomfort.
*Hey, if Neelix wasn't as ugly and indifferent to Seven's charm as he was, he could initiate the Borg to romantic feelings instead of Chakotay! Indeed, at least it would have been more logical because Neelix has always been there to help Seven to a better integration, even if it wasn't as intense as Janeway and the Doctor.
I'm , I wonder if he didn't care at all.
As for his opinion about Neelix's character and how this latter was screwed during the series (the romantic relationships between Neelix and Kes* in first 3 seasons then, afterwards, with Naomie and finally with Borg children, was particularly -> being super friendly is one thing, pass for a pedophile because we like to spend time with children, is another!), does not seem to be particularly bothered or distressed, although I'm pretty sure that some fan mails had to address him, some form of discomfort.
*Hey, if Neelix wasn't as ugly and indifferent to Seven's charm as he was, he could initiate the Borg to romantic feelings instead of Chakotay! Indeed, at least it would have been more logical because Neelix has always been there to help Seven to a better integration, even if it wasn't as intense as Janeway and the Doctor.
I'm , I wonder if he didn't care at all.
Without a doubt, Neelix was the most popular guy on board, because of his generosity, his kindness, his joviality and many other qualities. The choice of almost the whole crew to salute him, in making a guard of honor (even though he was a civilian) when he left, showed how much he was appreciated and would be missed.
That being said, cooking wasn't his forte (even if at various receptions and festivities offered, his dishes were much appreciated by everyone!) and everyone found out it quite quickly but it should also be noted that, as Talaxian, his puck and culinary references were nothing similar to other species, espeically human. Would they have told him? Maybe but if it meant hurting/upsetting him while he worked so hard, so best to say anything. And with regard to the criticism of his character (cooking/extrem joviality), they were never said meanly/nastily -> I pretty sure, criticisms towards Tom, B'Elena, Tuvok, Chakotay, Harry, Seven and even the Captain were surely harder/cruel.
And unlike everyone else, Neelix got a happy ending, found love and family, and a real reason to exist. Granted, that was all in one episode, but compared to his former shipmates, he went out on a comparative high note. Were I an actor approaching the end of a seven-year gig, I'd have killed for the ending Phillips was gifted.
The rest of the crew were most surprised by the sudden appearance of the end credits in their finale. :P
Mark
The rest of the crew were most surprised by the sudden appearance of the end credits in their finale. :P
Mark
I agree that Neelix and Jar Jar are very annoying, but I think Ethan Phillips was a good actor and would have done an excellent job if the role had been written with more teeth. I thought he was a good faux Ferangi in "False Profits." (or "False Prophets?"
Like others, I never understood why Wes was hated. I thought he was a great character. I suppose it is the fashion to think brainy is irritating, but he was supposed to be a prodigy and I admired the character.
Like others, I never understood why Wes was hated. I thought he was a great character. I suppose it is the fashion to think brainy is irritating, but he was supposed to be a prodigy and I admired the character.
It's a pity Neelix was so often mostly just written for shallow comedic relief. Episodes such as 'Fair Trade', 'mortal coil' or 'Jetrel' showed a character with a lot more depth to him and I wish we could have seen a bit more of that Neelix over the years.
Ethan Phillips made the best of the role he was given, I suppose.
Ethan Phillips made the best of the role he was given, I suppose.
I loved Neelix and thought he was a great character. Much more complex than some people are giving him credit for. His tragic past, unpleasant jealousy, jovial demeanor, kindness. He radiated love.
I was actually quite sad when he left although I guess it was great that he found some Talaxians in the end. Their home seemed so drab and depressing to me though.
I was actually quite sad when he left although I guess it was great that he found some Talaxians in the end. Their home seemed so drab and depressing to me though.
I forgot about Neelix's jealousy. He acted that well. Infact, I remember when I saw those episodes, it brought back some very painful memories of being jealous as a teenager in high school, when my love interest found someone else and broke up with me. It was soooooo painful. Ethan Phillips' performance really brought back those feelings - so vividly, I got a little choked up, lol.
