DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[DigificWriter]

Since other posters are asserting that I was wrong, here are the specific articles to which I have been referring, along with excerpts.
Variety:
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/batgirl-movie-why-not-releasing-warner-bros-1235332062/

Several sources note that “Batgirl” was made under a different regime at Warner Bros., headed by Jason Kilar and Ann Sarnoff, that was singularly focused on building its streaming service, HBO Max. That effort included Kilar’s infamous decision to release the studio’s entire 2021 theatrical slate simultaneously on the streamer, which helped build the subscriber base but also jeopardized the studio’s reputation with top-tier talent (though many agents and stars privately came to appreciate the move when the company paid generous bonuses as a make-nice).

Even before David Zaslav took the reins of the newly formed Warner Bros. Discovery as CEO this spring, the exec went on a well-publicized listening tour designed to repair the company’s relationship with the creative community. As part of that effort, Zaslav has made no secret of reversing Kilar’s strategy and committing to releasing first-run feature films in theaters before putting them on HBO Max.

Deadline Hollywood:
https://deadline.com/2022/08/batgir...slav-jason-kilar-hbo-max-strategy-1235084032/

Much of the decision came down to this: Warner Bros Discovery boss David Zaslav is rejecting Kilar’s strategy to lean heavily into building streaming subscriptions for HBO Max. That was punctuated by his Project Popcorn initiative that put the entire 2021 theatrical slate — including Dune, Godzilla vs Kong, King Richard, The Matrix 4 — day-and-date in theaters and on HBO Max when theater attendance was sparse during the pandemic. Even after he was shown the door, Kilar continued to call the strategy a win. Many did not agree, particularly after Top Gun: Maverick waited and grossed north of $1.3 billion. It’s a decidedly different world from when Kilar made the move. Wall Street no longer is impressed by subscriber numbers as much as profits, as seen by the precipitous decline of Netflix’s stock value.

The Hollywood Reporter:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/batgirl-hbo-max-movie-dc-canceled-1235191932/

Warners leadership under Zaslav feared it would not deliver the spectacle DC audiences are accustomed to. Still, its smaller feel was baked into its DNA, as Batgirl was supposed to be the first in a number of smaller DC films.

That strategy has been reversed. In May, Zaslav killed a DC Wonder Twins movie for HBO Max that was in preproduction, just weeks after Riverdale’s KJ Apa and 1883’s Isabel May had been cast in the lead roles. At a certain point, a source notes, it doesn’t make financial sense to spend $80 million or $90 million on a streaming movie, as it won’t necessarily attract more subscribers than, say, a $40 million movie. (In an earnings disclosure in April, HBO and its HBO Max streaming service counted 76.8 million combined global subscribers.)

Going forward, a streaming film will be made for a more modest number, “and if it’s for theatrical, it better feel theatrical,” notes a knowledgeable source.

 

[The Realist]

The Variety article linked by wayoung above invokes Batgirl's test screening results as key to its cancellation:

But “Batgirl” won’t, after a disappointing screening of a “10-week director’s cut” led to middling test scores. Insiders point out, however, that practically all movies are in rough shape that early in post-production, and “Batgirl” was designed to be watched on television, not a big screen, so it lacked the kind of gargantuan set pieces that could have goosed its score. But attempting to expand the movie into a big-screen proposition would have required reshoots, which Warner Bros. Discovery deemed to be a waste of money.

On another subject: From my highly informed and industry-savvy armchair quarterback perspective, I feel like the best bet for The Flash would be to get it into theaters ASAP, before the situation with Miller spirals any further out of control. As much as Miller's unhinged and increasingly criminal antics are the subject of much discussion and speculation among industry and Internet commentators, I think at this point they would damage the film's box office not at all. Guaranteed, you ask 500 random people on the street about what's going on with Miller, you'd be lucky to find one who's aware of it at all. But the chances of that changing for the worse increase every day. So why not rush the movie into theaters before any more damage can be done?

 

[Christopher]

So why not rush the movie into theaters before any more damage can be done?

According to Deadline, the film's release was pushed back to June 2023 because of the time required to complete the estimated 2500 visual effects shots in the film. Hollywood's VFX artists are already criminally overworked and struggling to keep up. Even if they could rush the FX work enough to get it out 6-9 months earlier, the results would be far worse-looking than Superman's erased mustache.

 

[The Realist]

Even if they could rush the FX work enough to get it out 6-9 months earlier, the results would be far worse-looking than Superman's erased mustache.

*shudder*

 

[Mr. Adventure]

So who here wouldn't see The Flash because of Ezra?

 

[The Realist]

So who here wouldn't see The Flash because of Ezra?

Not me. My interest in the film is 95 percent about Sasha Calle's Supergirl anyway, and she doesn't deserve to be punished for Miller's slow-motion disaster train.

The Flash may well be my first theatrical movie attendance since COVID hit, and I'll buy the Blu-ray on release day, too.

 

[Set Harth]

From my highly informed and industry-savvy armchair quarterback perspective, I feel like the best bet for The Flash would be to get it into theaters ASAP, before the situation with Miller spirals any further out of control. As much as Miller's unhinged and increasingly criminal antics are the subject of much discussion and speculation among industry and Internet commentators, I think at this point they would damage the film's box office not at all. Guaranteed, you ask 500 random people on the street about what's going on with Miller, you'd be lucky to find one who's aware of it at all. But the chances of that changing for the worse increase every day. So why not rush the movie into theaters before any more damage can be done?

I was going to say this earlier but never got around to it.

 

[wayoung]

Honestly I've probably gotten more entertainment from this thread the last week than from any DCEU movie.

 

[Nightowl1701]

So who here wouldn't see The Flash because of Ezra?

I hate to say it, but... if I was a betting man, right now I'd put it at 70% and rising that Ezra Miller will be dead by the release date, if not by the end of this year. And we already know from prior films, acting-wise Heath Ledger and/or Brandon Lee they are not. So no, I don't see too many at all going to see it for them. (I sure won't be.) Maybe a few, in a morbid 'Elvis in Concert '77' kind of way, but not nearly in the numbers this film would need to break even.

 

[crookeddy]

There's a footnote on the article that they updated the status of Titans and Doom Patrol. That said, I would not be surprised if they ended up on the chopping block.

Yeah they made an update. When I linked to it, it said they were on the chopping block.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I get the sense that Zaslav doesn't know what he's doing -- he didn't even seem to know that Hamada already had a "master plan" underway -- and has no real ideas beyond "copy the MCU" and "only do huge movies," which are the sort of thing that someone who knows nothing about moviemaking would think were good ideas for moviemaking. He's just come in and torn stuff down without having anything solid to replace it with.

Zaslav really only knows about making cheap reality shows and that’s it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Honestly if they are serious about cleaning up their universe they have to do painful things, such as killing The Batman series, and all the current TV shows... Is it necessary to do this just to be more like Marvel? No. But if that's the end goal, there really is no choice.

Getting rid of productions (and TV/streaming series, etc.) not relevant to the big screen stories/plans is understandable, but The Batman plans would not fall into that category, and at present, could be sold as the alternate universe tale it it.

Of course that also means they'd have to can Joker 2, and NO WAY is that happening.

Agreed. They are focused--as they should be--on amputating the misguided ideas of the former regime, and but that would not include a currently self-contained juggernaut such as the Joker.
[/I]

I hate to say it, but... if I was a betting man, right now I'd put it at 70% and rising that Ezra Miller will be dead by the release date, if not by the end of this year. And we already know from prior films, acting-wise Heath Ledger and/or Brandon Lee they are not. So no, I don't see too many at all going to see it for them. (I sure won't be.) Maybe a few, in a morbid 'Elvis in Concert '77' kind of way, but not nearly in the numbers this film would need to break even.

While Miller's fate is difficult to determine at this point (not referring to the likelihood for death), to anyone who even knows Miller's name, or pays attention to entertainment gossip, the level of their morbid curiosity is up in the air. In the Brandon Lee case, the wild publicity surrounding an on-set mortal wound, coupled with the news media's ridiculous "Bruce Lee curse" stories (Brandon dying before the release of a film as in the case of Bruce before Enter the Dragon's release) made The Crow a draw it would not have been if Brandon Lee lived on.

Miller is a warped, criminal mess, but to John & Jane Q. Public, i'm not certain Miller or the fact he's in a superhero film would have the same, morbid pull, and there's no pop-cultural tie-in to a tragedy as in the Brandon Lee case in relation to his very famous father.

 

[dupersuper]

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1557114834432434177?t=h6a9suJE7HcLBYx5Wp4OoA&s=19
Anyone want to try to explain this one?

Black Canary is a DC super hero. She was portrayed by that actress in the Harley Quinn/Birds of Prey movie. She is now spinning off into a solo film that has apparently thus far avoided the Discovery bloodbath.

You forgot Harley Quinn Season 3, Titans Season 4, Doom Patrol Season 3, Black Canary, and Green Lantern Corps.

Didn't Doom Patrol season 3 already finish?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I hate to say it, but... if I was a betting man, right now I'd put it at 70% and rising that Ezra Miller will be dead by the release date, if not by the end of this year. And we already know from prior films, acting-wise Heath Ledger and/or Brandon Lee they are not. So no, I don't see too many at all going to see it for them. (I sure won't be.) Maybe a few, in a morbid 'Elvis in Concert '77' kind of way, but not nearly in the numbers this film would need to break even.

Miller is a warped, criminal mess, but to John & Jane Q. Public, i'm not certain Miller or the fact he's in a superhero film would have the same, morbid pull, and there's no pop-cultural tie-in to a tragedy as in the Brandon Lee case in relation to his very famous father.

I was curious how many people would refuse to see the movie just because Ezra Miller is in it. This seems to suggest the opposite where it may actually be some kind of draw.

 

[Christopher]

So who here wouldn't see The Flash because of Ezra?

I wouldn't hold one actor's behavior against a film they appeared in. I mean, if we rejected works of fiction because of the misdeeds of their creators, we'd have to throw out everything featuring Barry Allen, and indeed pretty much everything from the Silver Age of DC onwards, because editor Julius Schwartz was a serial sexual predator who made life hell for the women working for him and actively stymied multiple other women's attempts to establish careers as comic book writers and artists. The Flash is far more Julius Schwartz's creation than Ezra Miller's, so if we can divorce it from Schwartz's decades of abuses and still enjoy it as a positive creation, it should be far easier to do that with Miller, because Miller is just someone the filmmakers hired to act out the script someone else wrote and follow the instructions of a director.

We don't judge children for the sins of their parents, so it doesn't make sense to judge a creative work for the sins of its creators. Unless the creation actively endorses or promotes those sins, e.g. D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation promoting the Ku Klux Klan and the white supremacist Lost Cause narrative, then it's independent of those sins and can be judged separately. Sometimes even a work that does endorse evil ideas can be enjoyed for its other aspects, like the way H.P. Lovecraft's really racist fiction nonetheless has a fair number of fans among the diverse communities Lovecraft vilified -- fans who fully recognize their harmful aspects but can still look past them to appreciate Lovecraft's positive creations and innovations, and who have written or produced works of fiction that drew on Lovecraft's mythos while deconstructing or countering its harmful elements.

 

[Captaindemotion]

It’s like some kind of morality tale, whereby fans were given SFX & technology fit to bring superheroes to life, a bunch of well-cast actors, a diverse group of writers and a studio that couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery

 

[kirk55555]

I just realized that Michael Keaton came back to play Batman after almost 30 years in two separate movies, and we may never see a second of his footage from either of them. As someone who considers Keaton the only good (serious) Live action Batman (Adam West was good, but as an obviously more funny/campy version), being hyped to see him return and then never getting to see it might be the most infuriating thing DC has done, to me at least. It would be one thing if we didn't know he was returning, but knowing it was happening and then being denied it is horrible.

For that reason alone I want The Flash to come out. Ezra's already been paid for his work, and he's nuts but not to the point where I really care that he'll get residuals or various bonuses. The works done, the reshoots are apparently done, just release the damn film, using the other actors to market it and down play Ezra Miller.

The idea that I will have to see the Affleck Batman again, even if just for a cameo in Aquaman 2, but might never see Keaton in the role again really fucking sucks.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I was curious how many people would refuse to see the movie just because Ezra Miller is in it. This seems to suggest the opposite where it may actually be some kind of draw.

Oh, I meant the average person would not necessarily care about Miller, pay attention to coverage of his various disasters, or want to see a film just to watch him. Even if he ended up in prison before the film's release, I believe there's a part of the movie-going public that would not see The Flash specifically for that reason, as its not enough of a motivator (especially if "Hollywood gossip" is not to their liking) to see yet another superhero film.

 

[Turtletrekker]

From The Onion...

https://www.theonion.com/we-have-no...tm_medium=socialmarketing&utm_source=facebook

 

[Dee1891]

So who here wouldn't see The Flash because of Ezra?

I won't be watching. Not just because of Miller, but also I would have been forced to watch a 70-something Michael Keaton play Batman after 30 years. Forget it.