Cristopher Lloyd ruined the Klingons!

[ancient]

In TOS the klingons could be subtle, crafty and cruel. They were clearly militaristic, but they weren't all the same in that they were not all BATSHIT INSANE.

Granted, there were exceptions, like Worf (raised by humans), but Klingon policy in the 24th century was essentially: Get killed in battle because of HONOR. Commit suicide because of HONOR. Also, drink blood, eat hearts, solve all problems with sharp objects, and be as unsanitary as possible because of HONOR. Also, act without thinking about the situation for even five seconds, wear armour all the time, beat up your sex partner as an erotic display, and file your teeth into points.

Essentially, if they were any more violent and war-like they’d shoot missiles from their asses.

So, who do we have to thank for this apparent shift in the Klingon philosophy from militaristic to totally insane?

Commander Kruge, of course! In Star Trek III, Kruge is portrayed as a raving loon. He kills his girlfriend, then kills his gunnery officer in a fit of rage. On a ship with only 12 crewmen, executing someone every time they make a mistake...well, there can be 11 mistakes, then you get to run the ship yourself. In any case, throughout the movie it becomes clear he has a bit of a mental problem, which ends when he decides to just fight with Kirk until the planet blows up. In other words, he gets distracted by suicidal violent mental issues. Sound familiar?

So, apparently the entire Klingon culture was reverse-engineered from Kruge’s example? That’s like going down to the nearest mental ward and reverse engineering human culture from the example of an extremely shell-shocked soldier. (No offense meant to said soldier, but he’s not a model citizen.)

So it now looks like ALL Klingons received a severe ‘bump to the head’ so to speak, and now suffer from severe violent tendencies.

Thanks for the inspiration, Kruge!


...Eh who am I kidding, the insane klingons are teh awesom!

 

[sbk1234]

Kruge may have had some of these "extreme" personality quirks, but that doesn't mean the whole race need be like that. In the same film, Maltz seemed like an intelligent, thoughtful warrior who could see more sides of the situation than simply fight and kill. It was Maltz who saw the potential benefits of Genesis as a means of creating planets (which I always interpreted as helping the Klingon worlds which, according to popular fannon of the time, were poor in natural resources. TUC would seem to support this. In the scene where Torg identifies Genesis as "great power. To control, dominate," in my mind, I always inserted the implied word: "us." This would show great political fear on his part. True, Kruge was a bit of berserker, but he might have been the only one.
It wasn't until the Klingons were so overused on TNG that the "slave of honor" Klingons came to be.
I wouldn't point the finger at Kruge. I'd point it at tptb since TNG.

 

[Duane]

I've always felt that post-TOS Klingons were a huge bore ball, so I agree with all aspects of your post.

However, TNG Klingons have inspired a huge fan following, and even the creation of a genuine Klingon language. I guess we need to thank someone for bringing in a new set of fans who really love TNG-style Klingons.

 

[steveman]

Well, if there's one thing about the Klingons, it's that the beastial, testostorone-driven ones (like Lloyd's Kruge, Gowron, etc) will always outnumber the more subdued, thoughtful ones (like Kang or the lawyer Klingon J.G. Hertlzer played in Ent's "Judgment") and even the ones that fall somewhere in between (like Worf, Kurn, etc). That's just the Klingons' MO. Even if it seemingly wasn't before TSFS rolled around.

I'm more than willing to go with what the Klingons have been established as since; to me, and probably much of the Trekking world, that's just who they are. And what's more, that's how we like 'em.

And sorry, but I always loved Lloyd in TSFS. After all, who can forget:

"Get out! GET OUTTA THERE!!!"

 

[Phantassm]

Naaa...
Kruge was just short of crazy craving power. He would do anything to get it and had a huge ego complex. That's how I always saw him.

 

[Green Shirt]

Was the actor to blame, or was it how the character was written?

 

[Therin of Andor]

klingongoat said:
Was the actor to blame, or was it how the character was written?

The part was written for a Romulan, on a Romulan bird of prey. Hence, the girlfriend dying to save Kruge's honor, and Kruge himself killing people on his crew who made mistakes, was simply emulating the two Romulan episodes of TOS - and the TAS episode "Practical Joker", where Romulans were ready to suicide to save face when embarrassed by a practical joking entity.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I liked Kruge, of all the bumpy headed aliens in Trek, the way Christopher Lloyd played him was truly... alien.

The odd speech patterns, "Emergency Power.... To the Thrusters!", the baleful looks, he was just animalistic weird.

Then the idiots start quoting Shakespeare!

 

[sbk1234]

^^^^Is THAT what he said? I could never understand it. I always thouoght he was screaming in Klingon.

 

[DanTheGrey]

I didn't mind it. I thought he was the OTT hammy Klingon in much the same way that Kirk could be considered to be a bit of an OTT hammy Human in the show/movies.

I got the impression he wanted power, he wanted to kill and have glorious battles and just wanted to get in there and make it happen *now*.

Maltz was the nice contrast and almost a Spock style straight man.

 

[ancient]

Well, I maybe wasn't being 100% clear last night. I'm not saying that Lloyd of Kruge directly caused Klingon culture to end up so over-the-top, but rather that whoever was writing the klingon eps on TNG might have incorrectly chosen Kruge as a model klingon. Of course, the BOP also became the most-used klingon ship too.

I don't hate the TNG klingons, in fact I like them just fine usually. I thought Martok (DS9) was a great character, for example. But any episode dealing heavily in klingon culture usually, well, was pretty nutty.

 

[DanTheGrey]

I think that Kurge wasn't the model, but he certainly broke them out of being these stoic warriors and showed them to be, well, almost party animals off the battlefield who wore their emotions and moods on their sleeves.

Klingons in TOS were pretty dull though. At least the 24th century Klingons, while nut jobs at times, filld a room and opened up some new doors for storytelling.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder how different Kruge would have been if the original choice - Edward James Olmos - had played him.

(AFAIK, Harve Bennett wanted EJO, but Leonard Nimoy convinced him to pick Chris Lloyd instead)

 

[Vic Sixx]

How can you hate anyone who brings along his pet on his ship, I thought he was an interesting character.

I often wondered what the Vulcan's did with Maltz, ship him to a Federation prison or send him home.

 

[DanTheGrey]

He showed up in the Genesis Wave novels IIRC.

Here's his wiki and Memory Alpha entries...
Maltz (wiki)
Maltz (Memory Alpha)

 

[Stardate]

I felt Kruge to be complete idiot in mediocre TSFS movie.
Why did he kill his ,,girlfriend, because she saw Genesis info why didn't just beam her to his ship then destroy the shuttle, this didn't make any sense at all. I saw TSFS again with commentary with Nimoy and he explain he wanted to show how brutal Kruge was(madman to me) was pretty lame. Besides Kruge would have many opportunities to prove his brutality latter in the movie.
I do agree Klingon's in TNG were defiantly inspired by Kruge Klingon's mentality.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I loved CLs Klingon in TSFS, but then i again i love anything TOS.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

The Laughing Vulcan said:
I liked Kruge, of all the bumpy headed aliens in Trek, the way Christopher Lloyd played him was truly... alien.

The odd speech patterns, "Emergency Power.... To the Thrusters!", the baleful looks, he was just animalistic weird.

Then the idiots start quoting Shakespeare!

Agreed, he's one of the best villains in Trek movie history.

The Klingons as a race though became freightfully dull after a while 'honor' this and 'honor' that.
If ever a race called for an 'indiana jones' moment where they're all swinging their batleths and getting capped by a wide-beamed phaser.

 

[indranee]

Vic Sixx said:
How can you hate anyone who brings along his pet on his ship, I thought he was an interesting character.

uhh, have you not heard of the rampant Archer-hatred on this board?

as for the OP, no, I don't think Kruge spoiled the Klingons. I think he enlivened the race and gave it a huge shot in the arm. he was funny yet hateful. he was so madly, colorfully, monstrously drawn that you couldn't WAIT for him to get his comeuppance. in the end, when Kirk had had ... enough... of... him... you really, REALLY believed him. Nimoy did the right thing, picking him. after Khan in TWOK, we needed someone as crazy and as in-your-face as Lloyd played him. and no, I don't think this affected the Klingons' portrayal on Trek in a negative way. I think it was very timely. the Klingons were not really "cool" on TOS. Kruge and the likes of Gowron with his spinning orbs for eyes, and, of course, Worf, made them one of the most popular aliens on the Con and fanfic circuit. can't ask much more than that. (and don't forget the Duras sisters!)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Vic Sixx said:
I often wondered what the Vulcan's did with Maltz, ship him to a Federation prison or send him home.

According to "The Klingon Dictionary", he helped write it with linguist Marc Okrand.

According to the ST IV novelization, he committed suicide in his Vulcan prison cell.

According to my old 1988 fan film, "Free Maltz", Saavik broke him free from prison and he ran for the Galactic Senate elections.

And according to Pocket novelist John Vornholt, he worked with Carol Marcus to end a return of the "Genesis Wave" (see Books 1 and 2).