Could Riker/Troi in the movies actually be the Betazoid sex drive?

[Lance]

Thought bubbles.

In "Manhunt" we're told by Deanna that Betazoids have got a biological stage they get to somewhere in middle age where their sex drive quadruples. The implication is that this is a permanent proposition, as every Lwaxana Troi episode subsequent to "Manhunt" revolves around her flirting a lot (mainly, but not exclusively, with Picard), whereas her only pre-"Manhunt" appearance in season 1 features no such interactions. Clearly, Lwaxana hadn't reached that 'stage' yet by that point.

In "Insurrection", we're led to believe maybe the planet is having some kind of effect on Riker/Troi, rekindling their romance. And maybe this is partly true.

But what if Deanna has just reached middle age?

I seem to recall that it's Deanna who starts all the running in "Insurrection", rubbing Riker's neck in that way etc. Riker responds in kind, later going to see her 'on business' which is just an excuse for more flirting (which Deanna is up for 100%). All of this seems to contrast with their "we're just friends now" chemistry in the series.

And then next thing we see of them in "Nemesis", they're hitched and going at it like bunnies (Shinzon interrupting them notwithstanding).

Is it possible that maybe Deanna has just reached that point she describes in "Manhunt"? And Riker, maybe (or maybe not) influenced by the strangeness of the Bak'u planet, simply falls into the flirting hook, line and sinker?

Certainly it might be some kind of biological drive that throws otherwise unmarried Betazoid women into choosing a mate (of course, Lwaxana had obviously married long before "Manhunt").

What do you guys think? Possible?

 

[Trekker4747]

Comparing the ages of Majel Roddenberry during TNG's run and the age Sirtis was during the movies I guess it's "possible."

 

[Lance]

I knew it had a name, but I'd forgotten:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betazoid_phase

Deanna claims in "Manhunt" that when she first had a relationship with Will, she told him all about this Phase business (although she didn't mention to him the quadrupled sex drive thing). Possibly in "Insurrection", Riker recogizes the symptoms, knows the downsides of 'rejecting' her, and simply decides that, yep, he's kinda ready for that relationship now.

From the above link:

Some females engaged in sexual relationships with any male available while others focused their attention on a single male who would later become her husband.

Gives the events of "Insurrection" and "Nemesis" a slightly different interpretation...

I know Deanna is sort of based on Ilia from TMP/Phase II, and it seems to me that all this stuff was something of a carry-over from the Deltans.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I say Riker and Troi married out of fear of dying alone, nothing more, nothing less. If they really truly wanted to be together, they wouldn't have been exploring other options for 7+ years.

 

[Lance]

I say Riker and Troi married out of fear of dying alone, nothing more, nothing less. If they really truly wanted to be together, they wouldn't have been exploring other options for 7+ years.

Well that's exactly it. As presented on screen, the sudden reingition/escalation of their romance seems to come out of nowhere (yeah, the Bak'u planet is said to be doing things to the crew, but that could only be one part of it). But if you add 'the Phase' to it, then it adds justification. They're both middle-aged, but Deanna's middle age is the point where she's like, "I need babies, right now".

It just seems to me that the possibility of it hasn't occured to anyone before (I've not seen it discussed online).

 

[2takesfrakes]

I hate to harp on their ages, because I love them so much, but ... it should've been a much more scaled back affair, than what we see, onscreen. A simple gathering of their closest friends ... no big deal. The absence of Majel Barrett is noticable, as is the inclusion of Worf and Wesley! Very strange, all around, however you want to look at it.

As to why they got married, I am more than happy to subscribe to your interpretation, Lance. Unfortunately, because of their age(s) - and nothing more, actually - it does seem like they are marrying this late because it's fear of dying alone urging them on. Or, maybe it was simply "inconvenient," before? Especially now that Riker's got his own command, it seems likely that this wedding was more Troi's idea ... than his.

 

[Lance]

There's something a little sinister about 'the Phase'. Troi says in "Manhunt" that she didn't tell Riker about the quadrupled sex drive originally when they were first going out because she was frightened it would scare him off, but it seems to me that Betazoid females are very sexually aggressive, maybe even a little possessive of their potential mates after they enter 'the Phase'. Judging by what the memory alpha article I posted above tells us, and if what we see in "Insurrection" and "Nemesis" is actually Troi entering her 'Phase'; then whether Riker's responses are partially induced by the Bak'u planet or not, there's sort of another implication there that Troi basically imprints herself on him, and he hasn't really got much choice but to marry the gal... in fact, it could be seen as a basic kind of brainwashing (although Will is evidently happy to play the game).

Telepaths are scary.

 

[Trekker4747]

Or they had a connection to one another that's existed for decades that they finally both decided to go all the way with. I mean given the longer life-spans in the 24c it seems unlikely age had much to do with considering they were both for all intents and purposes "pretty young." And it's not like either were exactly poor catches. It could be a "lack of options" but they had worked together for close to 15 years.

We don't see much of what happens in the in-between time between INS and NEM so it's possible that Deanna and Riker really rekindled their romantic relationship which, yeah, likely was sparked by the effects of the Baku planet and Deanna reaching Betazoid sexual maturity.

But, really, they both likely loved each other and finally decided to seal the deal.

I really doubt "lack of options" or age had much to do with it.

 

[borgboy]

I think that Will and Deanna really do love each other, and it was more an issue of they had dragged their feet on committing themselves to the relationship, especially on Will's side, long enough. They are both still attractive and vital, with much longer life spans in their time period, so they didn't need to rush to the alter.

It is an interesting point about the Betazoid middle age thing, I had never thought of that. Maybe Troi finally hitting her sexual peak was enough to finally make Riker seal the deal

 

[Maurice]

Ugh. This whole "phase" thing plays into the old trope of women as irrational creatures driven by their hormones. Ick.

How about the simpler answer being "cause they both wanted to".

 

[Trekker4747]

Ugh. This whole "phase" thing plays into the old trope of women as irrational creatures driven by their hormones. Ick.

It certainly seemed that at the very least this was true for Betazoid females.

 

[Lance]

Ugh. This whole "phase" thing plays into the old trope of women as irrational creatures driven by their hormones. Ick. How about the simpler answer being "cause they both wanted to".

Like it or not -- and I agree with you that it carries unfortunate implications -- "the Phase" is an established part of the Betazoid culture, so it's still a valid line-of-thought (even if it is an icky one).

 

[Trekker4747]

And *ahem* correct me if I'm wrong but aren't hormones a pretty big part of not only women reaching their sexual peak but men too? And aren't the fluctuations in hormones a big factor when it comes to mood swings/changes during a woman's menstrual cycle and during menopause (often necessitating hormone supplements to balance mood.) It may not strictly "control" women but certainly can be a factor in behavior and mood.

Hell, unstable testosterone levels can be a big factor in the mood and behavior of men.

 

[Maurice]

Hormones aside, the thing I was "ugh"ing was the idea that Riker and Troi finally hitched up because her hormones made her horny.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

All of this seems to contrast with their "we're just friends now" chemistry in the series.

Actually, that's not exactly my reading of their relationship in the series proper.

My reading of it is that they both wanted more, but Riker had dumped Deanna for his career, which hurt her a great deal. When they ended up serving on the same ship, that created a further complication that made picking up the pieces even harder, because Troi was in Riker's chain of command. A relationship with Worf was therefore easier for Deanna for multiple reasons.

But my point is that I never saw the fire between Troi and Riker as having gone out. Example:

RIKER: Have I mentioned how imaginative the Risian women are, sir?
TROI: Too often, Commander.

Troi and Riker getting married eventually was certainly no more surprising to me than Picard and Crusher having gotten married in the future shown in All Good Things....

 

[Hazel]

And *ahem* correct me if I'm wrong but aren't hormones a pretty big part of not only women reaching their sexual peak but men too? And aren't the fluctuations in hormones a big factor when it comes to mood swings/changes during a woman's menstrual cycle and during menopause (often necessitating hormone supplements to balance mood.) It may not strictly "control" women but certainly can be a factor in behavior and mood.

Hell, unstable testosterone levels can be a big factor in the mood and behavior of men.

From my non-medical knowledge, all humans - men and women -go through monthly cycles of hormones that could affect emotions.
I hate the popular notion that only women are 'affected', and I hate even more the assumption that they are at the mercy of their reproductive hormones, but popular culture thinks 'lol, PMS' is still a great one-liner unfortunately.

 

[borgboy]

And *ahem* correct me if I'm wrong but aren't hormones a pretty big part of not only women reaching their sexual peak but men too? And aren't the fluctuations in hormones a big factor when it comes to mood swings/changes during a woman's menstrual cycle and during menopause (often necessitating hormone supplements to balance mood.) It may not strictly "control" women but certainly can be a factor in behavior and mood.

Hell, unstable testosterone levels can be a big factor in the mood and behavior of men.

Oh absolutely. My brother has low testosterone so he takes testosterone shots, and you can tell how long it's been since he's had a shot by his personality. He's kind of an angry jerk for a few days after he gets his shot.

 

[TerragonSix]

Keep in mind that Troi is half-betazoid. She might not get the whole 'quadruple' effect.

 

[Armored Saint]

And then next thing we see of them in "Nemesis", they're hitched and going at it like bunnies (Shinzon interrupting them notwithstanding).

Space Honeymoon

Comparing the ages of Majel Roddenberry during TNG's run and the age Sirtis was during the movies I guess it's "possible."

She was not that old, despite the bubble & shave was so lwaxanish.

Hopefully for Jean-Luc, Lwaxana was not on this planet. She would have been full of energy to run after him and whip his Captain's ass.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

And *ahem* correct me if I'm wrong but aren't hormones a pretty big part of not only women reaching their sexual peak but men too? And aren't the fluctuations in hormones a big factor when it comes to mood swings/changes during a woman's menstrual cycle and during menopause (often necessitating hormone supplements to balance mood.) It may not strictly "control" women but certainly can be a factor in behavior and mood.

Hell, unstable testosterone levels can be a big factor in the mood and behavior of men.

*cough*Worf*cough*