Could Future Guy be the Prime version of Krall from Star Trek Beyond?

[Yistaan]

We've been debating about Future Guy's identity for decades. We've been told mixed messages from the producers like Brannon Braga, who said that he was probably a Romulan and later said he was an old and bitter Jonathan Archer. It's still not clear what Archer had to gain from turning into Future Guy or what he was trying to prevent, or even how he'd live that long (and if Future Guy were Archer, wouldn't he already remember that his plans had failed? Or he'd have to be an Archer who lived a version of Enterprise that didn't have a Temporal Cold War)

What's clear is that Future Guy is someone with a deep hatred of the Federation and wants to prevent its formation. Then it hit me. Wouldn't Krall, aka former MACO and Starfleet Captain Balthazar Edison, from the movie Star Trek Beyond fit this exactly? He's a former Starfleet officer who blames the Federation for him being stranded on Altamid, and hates how the Federation joins together with alien races that were hostile to humans instead of fighting them.

Krall was killed in the Kelvin Timeline but we don't know his fate in the Prime Timeline. Perhaps he used his life extension tech till the 28th century, then after failing repeatedly to destroy the Federation, decides to use time projection tech to prevent the Federation from ever having been formed. As Krall/Edison was only a low ranking MACO at the time of Enterprise's Temporal Cold War, he may not have known much about it (or anything of it at all) to realize that his plans were already doomed to failure.

Thoughts?

 

[Replica Picard]

I like it, it fits, and the only real problem I have with it is totally superficial and probably easily handwaved away by Future Guy intentionally obfuscating his appearance: Future Guy's silhouette was not big enough or ripped enough to be Idris Elba.

 

[Yistaan]

I like it, it fits, and the only real problem I have with it is totally superficial and probably easily handwaved away by Future Guy intentionally obfuscating his appearance: Future Guy's silhouette was not big enough or ripped enough to be Idris Elba.

Considering Krall's appearance is highly dependent on who he last drained to elongate his life, Future Guy doesn't need to look anything like how Krall looked in Star Trek Beyond, not to mention there's at least 500 years where things can change.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I like the idea of it being Krall.

IDK about the Archer as Future Guy. I always have this image of a future version of Archer that’s part human, part Klingon, and part Romulan for some reason. Archer being permanently stuck in the 28th century would be something to him to avoid. However,

- Attacks on Tandarans
- Trying to instigate a Klingon Civil War
- Destruction of Paraagon II colony and nearly getting the NX-01 recalled

None of this really lines up with who Archer is, unless the point is to get Archer in positions in specific locations. Even then, I don’t think he’d just destroy a colony like that.

It makes far more sense that Krall is behind these events.

However, I think Krall would have been okay if the NX-01 was destroyed by the antimatter leak cause by the plasma storm in “Cold Front.” Even if it meant sacrificing the Temporal Observatory that Silik was meant to retrieve, if his goal was to stop the formation of the Federation as Future Guy, if Archer is as central to the founding of the Federation as Daniels suggested. Meaning there is a chance Silik likely went rogue, although he wouldn’t have been able to obtain the Temporal Observatory if the ship was destroyed before he got to it.

Daniels is probably my only other alternative choice as Future Guy in terms of characters we know. Him or Flint.

 

[Yistaan]

However, I think Krall would have been okay if the NX-01 was destroyed by the antimatter leak cause by the plasma storm in “Cold Front.” Even if it meant sacrificing the Temporal Observatory that Silik was meant to retrieve, if his goal was to stop the formation of the Federation as Future Guy, if Archer is as central to the founding of the Federation as Daniels suggested. Meaning there is a chance Silik likely went rogue, although he wouldn’t have been able to obtain the Temporal Observatory if the ship was destroyed before he got to it.

Daniels is probably my only other alternative choice as Future Guy in terms of characters we know. Him or Flint.

Krall is trying to prevent the Federation from forming, but he wouldn't want to destroy humanity. Therefore, if he kept the NX-01 safe at times he likely did so because it was key to humanity's survival in the Romulan War. So if Krall were Future Guy, he'd be playing a slippery slope between trying to prevent Archer from forming the Federation, while at the same time not killing him/Enterprise NX-01 outright because it might doom humanity.

 

[NCC-73515]

I like the idea that it's Archer or some actually 'good guy' who's pushing people in the right direction for things to happen the way they should.
Maybe we'll find out in Disco S3?

 

[Dukhat]

I doubt we will ever know who Future Guy really was in-universe, as I don't see them going back to that any time soon. They have SNW, DSC season 3, PIC season 2 and Lower Decks to worry about now, not to mention the nebulous Section 31 show.

 

[The Wormhole]

then after failing repeatedly to destroy the Federation, decides to use time projection tech to prevent the Federation from ever having been formed.

Future Guy was not trying to destroy or prevent the Federation's existence. Indeed, all his actions seem to be geared towards protecting Earth and saving Earth from being destroyed by the Xindi, and almost all his actions seem to be geared towards that goal. The only exceptions would be Broken Bow, but he even says there it was too early for humans to be involved. Also Future Tense, where he only sent the Suliban after the time pod from the future, the NX-01 just happened to get there first. Otherwise:
-In Cold Front he prevents the NX-01's apparently fated destruction, possibly in the interests of making sure Earth has a ship advanced enough to combat the Xindi.
-In Shockwave he frames the NX-01 destroying an alien colony resulting in it subsequently being recalled to Earth, perhaps in the interests of having it in system to attack the Xindi probe or so it could launch for the Expanse as soon as possible to stop the Xindi. The fact the NX-01's mission continues afterwards could just mean they were close enough that they could return to Earth and then head out to the Expanse after the attack quickly enough to stop the weapon.
-Then finally in The Expanse Future Guy tells Archer about the Xindi and their plans for Earth.

 

[Yistaan]

Future Guy was not trying to destroy or prevent the Federation's existence. Indeed, all his actions seem to be geared towards protecting Earth and saving Earth from being destroyed by the Xindi, and almost all his actions seem to be geared towards that goal. The only exceptions would be Broken Bow, but he even says there it was too early for humans to be involved. Also Future Tense, where he only sent the Suliban after the time pod from the future, the NX-01 just happened to get there first. Otherwise:
-In Cold Front he prevents the NX-01's apparently fated destruction, possibly in the interests of making sure Earth has a ship advanced enough to combat the Xindi.
-In Shockwave he frames the NX-01 destroying an alien colony resulting in it subsequently being recalled to Earth, perhaps in the interests of having it in system to attack the Xindi probe or so it could launch for the Expanse as soon as possible to stop the Xindi. The fact the NX-01's mission continues afterwards could just mean they were close enough that they could return to Earth and then head out to the Expanse after the attack quickly enough to stop the weapon.
-Then finally in The Expanse Future Guy tells Archer about the Xindi and their plans for Earth.

None of that prevents Future Guy from being Krall, and in fact actually helps the case of them being the same. Krall specifically mentions the Xindi to Kelvin Timeline Kirk in Star Trek Beyond as a species he battled in defense of humanity in his past, and this may be a traumatic experience he's trying to prevent.

Future Guy could love Earth but hate the Federation. We know Krall did.

 

[NCC-73515]

It was Jo'Bril, still angry about Beverly taking the metaphasic shield back XD

 

[Kor]

So Krall turns out to be like Blofeld in Spectre, the one secretly behind the scenes all along... "I am the author of all your pain, Jonathan."
Nah, I'm not big on retroactive continuity like that.

Kor

 

[Yistaan]

So Krall turns out to be like Blofeld in Spectre, the one secretly behind the scenes all along... "I am the author of all your pain, Jonathan."
Nah, I'm not big on retroactive continuity like that.

Kor

It may not really be like that though. Krall wouldn't be so much trying to grind an axe against Archer as he would be trying to prevent his own timeline of suffering from happening (as he himself was a MACO stationed on NX-01).

The only oddity is that Krall would still be trying to undo things or try to destroy the Federation after 600 years. But that was already strange even in Beyond where he was still trying to destroy the Fed after a century.

 

[The Wormhole]

None of that prevents Future Guy from being Krall, and in fact actually helps the case of them being the same. Krall specifically mentions the Xindi to Kelvin Timeline Kirk in Star Trek Beyond as a species he battled in defense of humanity in his past, and this may be a traumatic experience he's trying to prevent.

Future Guy could love Earth but hate the Federation. We know Krall did.

That's nice, except you specifically said Future Guy was trying to prevent the formation of the Federation here:

Perhaps he used his life extension tech till the 28th century, then after failing repeatedly to destroy the Federation, decides to use time projection tech to prevent the Federation from ever having been formed.

I was pointing out that was not the case at all.

It may not really be like that though. Krall wouldn't be so much trying to grind an axe against Archer as he would be trying to prevent his own timeline of suffering from happening (as he himself was a MACO stationed on NX-01).

Actually, there's no proof Edison was aboard the NX-01, and indeed evidence would suggest he never did. Edison's MACO rank when the organization was disbanded was Major, meaning he was an officer. Aside from Major Hayes and Sergeant Kemper, all the MACOs aboard the NX-01 during the Xindi crisis were Corporals.

And contrary to popular belief, Krall never says he specifically fought against the Xindi, just that millions were lost to the Xindi and Romulans. Considering seven million were killed in the Xindi attack, that's likely what he was referring to.

 

[Yistaan]

That's nice, except you specifically said Future Guy was trying to prevent the formation of the Federation here:

I was pointing out that was not the case at all.

Actually, there's no proof Edison was aboard the NX-01, and indeed evidence would suggest he never did. Edison's MACO rank when the organization was disbanded was Major, meaning he was an officer. Aside from Major Hayes and Sergeant Kemper, all the MACOs aboard the NX-01 during the Xindi crisis were Corporals.

And contrary to popular belief, Krall never says he specifically fought against the Xindi, just that millions were lost to the Xindi and Romulans. Considering seven million were killed in the Xindi attack, that's likely what he was referring to.

You do know that Krall can both prevent his traumatic life and also prevent formation of the Federation right? I've been consistent. Just because Future Guy helped NX-01 a few times doesn't mean he wanted to see the Federation formed. He could still have been trying to prevent its formation.

"I fought for Humanity! Lost millions to the Xindi and Romulan wars. And for what? For the Federation to sit me in a captain's chair and break bread with the enemy!"
– Krall

I suppose strictly speaking Krall may not have fought the Xindi if you're going to be splitting hairs about the exact wording of his sentence. But I'm pretty sure with the personal way that he describes it, he did. We know he "fought" for humanity at some point so he at least most likely fought in the Romulan war.

 

[The Wormhole]

You do know that Krall can both prevent his traumatic life and also prevent formation of the Federation right? I've been consistent. Just because Future Guy helped NX-01 a few times doesn't mean he wanted to see the Federation formed. He could still have been trying to prevent its formation.

In the alternate future of Shockwave where Earth is in ruins and the Federation never existed, Future Guy seemingly doesn't exist either, based on the fact Silik and the Suliban seem to lose contact with him following the creation of this timeline. If you interpret that as meaning Future Guy's existence is contingent upon the formation and existence of the Federation, it makes even less since for Future Guy to be someone trying to prevent the Federation from existing or even destroying it.

If Future Guy wanted to prevent the Federation from existing, allowing the Xindi to destroy Earth would have been the simplest way. Even if we accept the theory that he wanted to keep Earth safe but still wanted to prevent the Federation from existing, there are events from season 4 he could have gotten involved with to accomplish this very goal. He could have prevented Archer from finding the Kir'shara and turning the Vulcans back to Surak's true teachings. He could have prevented humans, Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites from working together to combat the Romulan drone ship. Or he could have provided assistance to the Terra Prime movement. He didn't. The only times Future Guy intentionally gets involved with the NX-01 is to make sure it's available to be sent into the Delphic Expanse to combat the Xindi in time to prevent Earth's destruction, and once that's done he never bothers with the ship again. With the exception of Storm Front, but that could be because the Alien Nazis pose a threat to him and in the interests of self-preservation he turns to the NX-01.

 

[Yistaan]

In the alternate future of Shockwave where Earth is in ruins and the Federation never existed, Future Guy seemingly doesn't exist either, based on the fact Silik and the Suliban seem to lose contact with him following the creation of this timeline. If you interpret that as meaning Future Guy's existence is contingent upon the formation and existence of the Federation, it makes even less since for Future Guy to be someone trying to prevent the Federation from existing or even destroying it.

If Future Guy wanted to prevent the Federation from existing, allowing the Xindi to destroy Earth would have been the simplest way. Even if we accept the theory that he wanted to keep Earth safe but still wanted to prevent the Federation from existing, there are events from season 4 he could have gotten involved with to accomplish this very goal. He could have prevented Archer from finding the Kir'shara and turning the Vulcans back to Surak's true teachings. He could have prevented humans, Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites from working together to combat the Romulan drone ship. Or he could have provided assistance to the Terra Prime movement. He didn't. The only times Future Guy intentionally gets involved with the NX-01 is to make sure it's available to be sent into the Delphic Expanse to combat the Xindi in time to prevent Earth's destruction, and once that's done he never bothers with the ship again. With the exception of Storm Front, but that could be because the Alien Nazis pose a threat to him and in the interests of self-preservation he turns to the NX-01.

Even though it's a war about time travel, I don't think going into what Future Guy "could have" done in Season 4 but didn't clarifies anything, as the Temporal Cold War story closed at the start of Season 4. Maybe we can pretend Daniels and his side "time locked" Future Guy to prevent him from disrupting anything after the episodes 'Storm Front', and Daniels did say the Temporal Cold War was coming to an end in that episode.

Also, Future Guy's existence not happening with Earth in ruins--Well Krall may have wanted to live a normal life without being stranded on Altamid and gaining its life extension tech, so Krall would have gotten what he wanted and died long before the 28th century. From that point he was successful. As for Earth being in ruins, Krall might not have wanted that, but it was out of his hands anyway if he was Future Guy as he was no longer alive by the 28th century.

I doubt we will ever know who Future Guy really was in-universe, as I don't see them going back to that any time soon. They have SNW, DSC season 3, PIC season 2 and Lower Decks to worry about now, not to mention the nebulous Section 31 show.

You do know when Discovery Season 3 takes place right?

 

[arch101]

Love this concept. STB has such strong ties to Ent, it seems fitting somehow if those ties work in reverse in the prime timeline. Anyone here an author?

 

[marlboro]

Future Guy = Michael Burnham's dad

 

[FederationHistorian]

"I fought for Humanity! Lost millions to the Xindi and Romulan wars. And for what? For the Federation to sit me in a captain's chair and break bread with the enemy!"
– Krall

I suppose strictly speaking Krall may not have fought the Xindi if you're going to be splitting hairs about the exact wording of his sentence. But I'm pretty sure with the personal way that he describes it, he did. We know he "fought" for humanity at some point so he at least most likely fought in the Romulan war.

He lost someone in the Xindi attack while enlisted as a MACO, and served in the Romulan War, which also was supposed to have involved an attack on Earth. That’s my interpretation of that line.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Future Guy's identity ought to have been something seeded into the last season of the show. So we could've gotten to the finale, and kicked ourselves for not realising before. Having said that, I'm not really a fan of Brannon Braga's idea about revealing him to be Archer. Especially not since he was supposed to be responsible for genetically altering the Kabal faction of the Suliban. That isn't really something Archer would be involved in, no matter how bad the future turned out for him.

Also dialogue from Future Guy in his first appearance, when trying to destabilise the Klingon Empire, mentions how he didn't want to involve the humans or the Vulcans in his plans... no yet. Doesn't that indicate he isn't a part of either species?