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Constellation Class Development

DSG2k

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By Star Trek VI (2293 or so), observed starship status charts such as the "Starship Mission Assignment" chart seen on a computer screen still show the USS Constellation as having her NX registry, NX-1974.

Registries are broadly chronological. The Excelsior is perhaps an exception, given that comm chatter in the early 2270s references the existence of the Entente, NCC-2120 . . . perhaps 2000 was held for the transwarp experiment ship that was rather long in development, which -- per my pet theory -- her unusual bridge controls with an updated style but TOS-esque color palette also indicate. Whatever your view, by 2285 the Excelsior was definitely NX-2000 and ready for trial runs, and by 2290ish the ship had received an update to NCC and was sent on a three year mission under Hikaru Sulu.

By registry, however, the Constellation must pre-date the Excelsior to either a large or small degree. There's no obvious reason to reserve the number 1974, after all.

This all tends to point me toward the idea that the Constellation actually hearkens back to the mid-2260s or so, and seemingly had a long and troubled development, and perhaps even a redevelopment. An obvious reason for this would be her significant size (three times the Constitution, compared to the Excelsiors at four times) and, more importantly, the quad-nacelle arrangement. I presume that the quad-nacelle setup, never observed on any previous Federation ship that I recall from the Original Universe productions, was especially difficult to perfect.

The Excelsior and Constellation classes both feature next-lowest registries in the 2500 range . . . the Repulse 2544 and the Hathaway 2593 . . . at an NCC rate of about 20 per year, 2520 would be twenty years after 2272, or 2292. By that time the Excelsior has been an NCC for a couple of years and perhaps the Constellation is just about done NX'ing, allowing for the Hathaway (an amusing name after a lengthy development cycle) to be built circa 2295.

(Also, If four nacelles are exceptionally more complicated than two, this may also help explain why nacelle pairs retain their popularity through the decades even as they grow to such massive sizes that the whole idea gets a little ridiculous (e.g. the Galaxy nacelles that are the size of a Constitution Class ship). Otherwise it would seem to make much more sense to have a larger number of some standard nacelle size, but this isn't what we see. Only the Cheyenne and Prometheus really go for the quad, as I recall, and even the latter is unique in that regard.)
 
and, more importantly, the quad-nacelle arrangement. I presume that the quad-nacelle setup, never observed on any previous Federation ship that I recall from the Original Universe productions, was especially difficult to perfect.
We have at least 3 canonical classes of 4 nacelled Starships that predated the Constellation class.

The Nimitz Class
vvCl0mW.png


The Cardenas Class
4uVdJVR.png


The Radiant Class
ddTgsuP.jpeg
 
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By Star Trek VI (2293 or so), observed starship status charts such as the "Starship Mission Assignment" chart seen on a computer screen still show the USS Constellation as having her NX registry, NX-1974.

Registries are broadly chronological. The Excelsior is perhaps an exception, given that comm chatter in the early 2270s references the existence of the Entente, NCC-2120 . . . perhaps 2000 was held for the transwarp experiment ship that was rather long in development, which -- per my pet theory -- her unusual bridge controls with an updated style but TOS-esque color palette also indicate. Whatever your view, by 2285 the Excelsior was definitely NX-2000 and ready for trial runs, and by 2290ish the ship had received an update to NCC and was sent on a three year mission under Hikaru Sulu.

By registry, however, the Constellation must pre-date the Excelsior to either a large or small degree. There's no obvious reason to reserve the number 1974, after all.

This all tends to point me toward the idea that the Constellation actually hearkens back to the mid-2260s or so, and seemingly had a long and troubled development, and perhaps even a redevelopment. An obvious reason for this would be her significant size (three times the Constitution, compared to the Excelsiors at four times) and, more importantly, the quad-nacelle arrangement. I presume that the quad-nacelle setup, never observed on any previous Federation ship that I recall from the Original Universe productions, was especially difficult to perfect.

The Excelsior and Constellation classes both feature next-lowest registries in the 2500 range . . . the Repulse 2544 and the Hathaway 2593 . . . at an NCC rate of about 20 per year, 2520 would be twenty years after 2272, or 2292. By that time the Excelsior has been an NCC for a couple of years and perhaps the Constellation is just about done NX'ing, allowing for the Hathaway (an amusing name after a lengthy development cycle) to be built circa 2295.

(Also, If four nacelles are exceptionally more complicated than two, this may also help explain why nacelle pairs retain their popularity through the decades even as they grow to such massive sizes that the whole idea gets a little ridiculous (e.g. the Galaxy nacelles that are the size of a Constitution Class ship). Otherwise it would seem to make much more sense to have a larger number of some standard nacelle size, but this isn't what we see. Only the Cheyenne and Prometheus really go for the quad, as I recall, and even the latter is unique in that regard.)

A few observations:

Michael Okuda made the TUC chart showing the Constellation NX-1974. His implication seemed to be that the prototype Constellation was brand-new as of 2293 (which is why it still has its NX designation and was undergoing 'certification tests'), but that can't possibly be correct. The Hathaway was commissioned in 2285, so the Constellation had to have been built before that date. Ironically, the same Okudagram was used later for background displays on the bridge of the Bozeman (lost in 2278), so it essentially fixes this continuity problem (although it makes all the ships on that list having the exact same assignments 15 years apart, and that the Excelsior existed 7 years before it was commissioned, lol.)

Also, PIC retconned the commissioning date of the Stargazer to 2326 on a background display, which also can't possibly be correct. Based on its registry number, the ship had to have been commissioned around the same time as the Hathaway in 2285. And commissioning it in 2326 wouldn't make the ship anywhere near as old as Picard constantly made it out to be.

My point: We can't reliably use illegible-on-screen background displays as evidence of anything.

We have at least 3 canonical classes of 4 nacelled Starships that predated the Constellation class.

The Nimitz Class
vvCl0mW.png


The Cardenas Class
4uVdJVR.png


The Radiant Class
ddTgsuP.jpeg

Funny how the first two ships look significantly more advanced than the third ship, but they are all supposed to be contemporaneous. I wonder why that could be? ;)
 
I think of the Constellation as the last gasp of Refit-era technology advancement.

While Excelsior pointed the way forward, Constellation was a way to make the most of existing tech.

Some argue that a Galaxy class would have been better than Voyager’s Intrepid class—but if I had to thrown across the galaxy—the more nacelles, the better.

In my head canon, one last refit era bodge was assembled after the Dominion war expended all the older TMP era ships.

I could imagine a Constellation made of two Reliant hulls, two Constitution cigars over and under—each of them with four scavenged TMP nacelles.

Being automated, it was sent to rendezvous with Voyager at some point with materials, shops.
 
I would mark the style differences between the Nimitz-class and the Radiant-class up to different manufacturers. There was a rectangular nacelle group and a cylinder nacelle group. Different yards putting out different ships. Perhaps in competition. Perhaps just different species taking the design leads (The Federation and Starfleet is still more than just humans).

The alternative could be design purpose. The cylindrical nacelles may be more "ample" as Mr. Scott says, and be for long term missions, while the more rectangular nacelles were for Federation interior designs. Patrol ships, local flagships, short range explorers, and science vessels. Ships that would be within range of a starbase most of the time. While ships like the USS Enterprise would have been designed to be away from starbase support for months to years at a time. The late-23rd century nacelles could be a merger of the two schools of thought with the likes of Miranda-class, Constellation-class and Constitution (II)-class starships all using very similar nacelles to each other, and the Excelsiors just having a more advanced version of that design going into the 24th century.
 
Hmm, the Radiant Class only appears as a gold model in Picard S2... do we ever get a good close-up of it? And the Cardenas Class has a nice high NCC number of 93651. Those Romulan time-saboteurs can really make it hard to establish what timeline it is post-TOS :whistle: :biggrin: ... YMMV.
 
Hmm, the Radiant Class only appears as a gold model in Picard S2... do we ever get a good close-up of it? And the Cardenas Class has a nice high NCC number of 93651. Those Romulan time-saboteurs can really make it hard to establish what timeline it is post-TOS :whistle: :biggrin: ... YMMV.
That image is from STO. The registry is absolutely meaningless in this instance.
 
Hmm, the Radiant Class only appears as a gold model in Picard S2... do we ever get a good close-up of it? And the Cardenas Class has a nice high NCC number of 93651. Those Romulan time-saboteurs can really make it hard to establish what timeline it is post-TOS :whistle: :biggrin: ... YMMV.
It's an STO registry. I probably have a ship with those exact numbers on the saucer :D
 
I would mark the style differences between the Nimitz-class and the Radiant-class up to different manufacturers. There was a rectangular nacelle group and a cylinder nacelle group. Different yards putting out different ships. Perhaps in competition. Perhaps just different species taking the design leads (The Federation and Starfleet is still more than just humans).

Except the differences in design are far more fundamental than just whether the nacelles are round or square.
 
Also, there is this thing about the Nimitz and Cardenas being from a visually rebooted show, and the Radiant being from a season of a show which didn't really embrace that idea.

It's tricky to reconcile them all together. I mean, I'm happy to, but it's a cake and eat it situation. They're either all from the same visual continuity or they're not.
 
Also, there is this thing about the Nimitz and Cardenas being from a visually rebooted show, and the Radiant being from a season of a show which didn't really embrace that idea.

It's tricky to reconcile them all together. I mean, I'm happy to, but it's a cake and eat it situation. They're either all from the same visual continuity or they're not.
The Nimitz has just enough of an Enterprise era look to it, that I'm fine with the design as I can see the connections with other ships. The Cardenas is a little trickier, but it also has a fair bit of Walker class, which I liked, so I'm fine with it. The Radiant I love because it's got more than a little SNW Enterprise put into its design.
 
The Nimitz has just enough of an Enterprise era look to it, that I'm fine with the design as I can see the connections with other ships. The Cardenas is a little trickier, but it also has a fair bit of Walker class, which I liked, so I'm fine with it. The Radiant I love because it's got more than a little SNW Enterprise put into its design.
It gets a bit trickier with the Radiant, as it appeared within a few episodes of the TOS Constitution. I can see a a bit of both TOS and SNW eras, to be honest.

It's a bit of a tangled web that I wish could make the concept of a visual reboot more fluid than fixed, so that everything can fit together...somehow.
 
The Nimitz has just enough of an Enterprise era look to it, that I'm fine with the design as I can see the connections with other ships. The Cardenas is a little trickier, but it also has a fair bit of Walker class, which I liked, so I'm fine with it. The Radiant I love because it's got more than a little SNW Enterprise put into its design.

The Radiant was designed by a guy who understood the idea of a specific design lineage. The other ships were designed by a guy who doesn’t have much of an ability to distinguish one design lineage from another.
 
The Radiant was designed by a guy who understood the idea of a specific design lineage. The other ships were designed by a guy who doesn’t have much of an ability to distinguish one design lineage from another.
The Disco ships were admittedly different from what we would initially expect from ships of that era. But I don't think it's John Eaves fault.

If I recall, there was a directive from those in power to make the ships different. Infact I think it was Bryan Fuller who before he left demanded there to be no round Nacelles.

I think Eaves did what he could to satisfy 3 design criteria....He needed to follow his bosses demands, make something new and interesting, AND make something for the existing fans to appreciate. The design are interesting, I'll give him that. And if you don't use the TOS Enterprise as your design lineage starting point, but instead use the NX-01, I personally think it works out pretty good.

The number one thing that makes the Disco designs stand out are their square nacelles. I've posted these before, but I'll show them again as I think it shoes nicely how with different Nacelles, the designs fit so much better within the established lineage.
nWQXrUB.jpeg
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They come off as no more advanced looking than Radiant class, in my opinion.
 
I would mark the style differences between the Nimitz-class and the Radiant-class up to different manufacturers. There was a rectangular nacelle group and a cylinder nacelle group. Different yards putting out different ships. Perhaps in competition. Perhaps just different species taking the design leads (The Federation and Starfleet is still more than just humans).

Except the differences in design are far more fundamental than just whether the nacelles are round or square.

My "head-canon" reasoning for why the ship classes introduced in Discovery look so different from TOS starships is they are two different generations of technology and design, like the leap from the TOS aesthetic to the movie-era one.

Note that most of the "new" ships have registries in the "early 1000s" like Engle class USS T'Plana-Hath NCC-1004, Walker class USS Shenzhou NCC-1227 (which Georgiou describes as "old" to Burnham when she first comes aboard), and Cardenas class USS Buran NCC-1422.

If USS Constitution NCC-1700 and USS Enterprise-1701 date from the mid-2240s they're already a decade old at the start of Discovery, meaning the Walker, Cardenas, Nimitz etc. classes could be much older, maybe from the early 23rd century.

Perhaps this is why the UFP fared so poorly against the Klingons in the war...a bulk of their forces were decades old at the start of the conflict. After the cease-fire lot of these ships may have been retired or assigned to "light duty" such as planetary defense or transport roles, which is why we never see them out on the frontier in the later 23rd century.

*it's intersting the USS Pioneer has the registry number NCC-1500; the start of a "block" like the USS Excelsior's NX-2000 (and it's ALSO the lead ship of a class). 1500 is one of the lowest NCC numbers on a "TOS-style" starship aside from notable exceptions like the Antares NCC-501, Archer NCC-627, or Constellation NCC-1017, which may be special cases (I'm of the opinion that NCC numbers are "mostly" chronological with bureaucratic "exceptions" mixed in).

Maybe the Pioneer "pioneered" a whole range of new or upgraded technologies and established the visual "style" we associate with Star Trek (1966)?
 
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