Honestly, Suspiria being the overall villain of the show seemed so obvious...
Cold Fire - why didn't Janeway force Suspiria to send them back?
- Thread starter Reymet_2
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Honestly, Suspiria being the overall villain of the show seemed so obvious...
Did Suspiria even have the ability to send them home? Her array didn't look as sophisticated as the Caretaker's, maybe it lacked the technology to push and pull ships from great distances.
I would prefer a Voyager ending with Suspiria instead of the ending with the Borg.
That comes down to how every single one of VOY's original creations got a negative response from viewers. They weren't interested in new villains in the show.
Her array probably had a database, with instructions on how to build any other piece of Technology their species, the Nacene had ever invented or acquired.
Season 1.
Kazon 3
Vidiians 2
One and done 11
Season 2
Kazon 4
Vidiians 3
One and done 19.
Season 3
Kazon 2
Borg 2
Vidiians 0
One and done 22.
...
They were just so god damned ugly.
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Me too.I would prefer a Voyager ending with Suspiria instead of the ending with the Borg.
it was what I had expected.
Instead we got that Borg-infested drivel with silly time jumping and that Chakotay/Seven relationship which insulted most of the fans.
I didn't really buy into the Kazon sect thing and them basically stealing all of their technology from the Trabe and still being a threat to Voyager as the ship moved on whilst warring with themselves. If Voyager made a beeline for the Alpha Quadrant Maj Cullah shouldn't have even been in the picture after a few weeks. So i would agree that the Kazon were kind of a miss as villains. The Vidiians were cool though. They were setup as sort of a broken mirror of the Federation. A peaceful inquisitive people driven to commit terrible atrocities in the name of survival.
I actually like the Kazon and I also find their background story believable.
It has happened from time to time in history that a country with a people who has been liberated from an oppressor has turned into chaos when the resistance movement or the political opposition to the former dfictatorship or occupation power have split up in different factions and start fighting on another.
That happened in Iraq when saddam Hussein was overthrown. The US had anticipated that a democratic opposition should take over and make Iraq a democtaric country.
But there were no "democratic opposition" in Iraq. Instead there were several warlords who had fought Saddam's regime but now started to fight each other.
So the Kazon background story with rivaling sects is highly believable and actually worked fine as villains in the series.
They actually stole their technology from the Trabe and were obviously smart enough to make it working rather good.
And wasn't Culluh and Seska a lovely couple?
The only things which weren't so realistic were the water problem the Kazon-Ogla had on the Ocampa planet and the enormous width of the Kazon Empire.
If the Kazon-Ogla on the Ocampa planet needed water, they could robably go out and find some icy planet somewhere to get water, especially since the Kazon-Ogla main area seem to be located far from Ocampa, in the area where the moon Tarok was located in the episode Initiations.
The most realistic explanation is that the Kazon-Ogla on the Ocampa planet was unde siege from some other Kazon sect, most likely the Nistrim and therefore couldn't get any water since the planets in the Ocampa system are burned-out rocks and a gas giant.
The kazon Empire also seem a bit too wide, considering the hostility and fighting between the sects. I mean, it took two years for Voyager to pass through it.
Note also that Voyager did seem to travel in some small corridor between Kazon and Vidiian Territory where smaler independent planets exists, like Sikaris, The 37's planet, Rakosa. Banea, Numiri, Ilidaria and others.
As for the Vidiians, they are interesting and good villains as well. However, a mystery that such a technologically developed species couldn't come up with a cure against the Phage or simply weren't extinct because they couldn't.
Maybe, but Suspiria didn't seem to be the sharing type with aliens who weren't Ocampa.
There were complaints that the Phage should have been easily cured by cloning organs or that it should have mutated into a virus affecting more than just the Vidiians and VOY should have become infected with it and it didn't make sense to run into them for more than a few episodes and then go beyond their space.
It's the same complaint that the Kazon and Hirogen and any other recurring aliens got: They should have just run into them like once and that would be it.
Now imagine if the Dominion only showed up once in DS9 and that was it. VOY just couldn't win.
The difference there is that DS9 was at a fixed point in space while VOY wasn't just regularly on the move but was regularly on the move away from anyone they encountered who wasn't pursuing them. I wouldn't say they should have only encountered antagonists once, but I do think two years of Kazon and Vidiians was a bit improbable...but that has nothing to do with my views of the two races themselves, but rather the realities of the show's premise.
I did wonder whether TPTB would touch on the idea of the Phaage crossing species boundaries, perhaps forcing Our Heroes to discover a cure, but they opted not to explore that, and that's fine.
I still don't think this rises to the level of widespread negativity, but perhaps I'm misremembering.
I did wonder whether TPTB would touch on the idea of the Phaage crossing species boundaries, perhaps forcing Our Heroes to discover a cure, but they opted not to explore that, and that's fine.
I still don't think this rises to the level of widespread negativity, but perhaps I'm misremembering.
Alright, imagine if Farscape just left the Peacekeepers behind after S1 and if NuBSG left the Cylons behind after 2 seasons. How would that have worked out?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The whole foundation of the BSG plot is that they are refugees from the Cylons who are trying to exterminate the human race. If anything, what I found noteworthy about BSG is that there don't seem to be any other civilizations out there. My understanding, though, is that BSG did on occasion get some flak for the Cylons managing to find Our Heroes again.
As for Farscape, I haven't seen it in long enough that I can't speak to it.
As for Farscape, I haven't seen it in long enough that I can't speak to it.
My point is that those shows had the same "Lone ship on the run" thing going for them but still understood you needed recurring major enemies to be there for pretty much the whole show.
Yet Voyager didn't get that same understanding.
Probably because the Kazon and Vidiians weren't baked into the premise, and also, at least in the former case, were shown to be technologically inferior to Our Heroes, which suggests that even if they wanted to pursue Voyager for long periods of time the wouldn't ultimately be able to. Two years is a long time to hunt a white whale.
If the Kazon had been shown to be equal or superior to Voyager technologically I think they'd be given more leeway...but then, they're also generally considered to be a Poor Man's Klingon, so the audience may still have tired of them, especially in lieu of meeting new civilizations.
If the Kazon had been shown to be equal or superior to Voyager technologically I think they'd be given more leeway...but then, they're also generally considered to be a Poor Man's Klingon, so the audience may still have tired of them, especially in lieu of meeting new civilizations.
The problem is that it was established that the Borg were all over the Delta Quadrant and if there were other species out there capable of traveling that far and fast then they'd have to explain why the Borg didn't assimilate them. And the Borg were too OP to be used without depowering them, which happened anyways because the Borg as they were in TNG were too powerful to be used as a normal enemy.
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