Cold Fire - why didn't Janeway force Suspiria to send them back?

[Reymet_2]

When Suspiria had been weakened by the toxin and placed in the containment field, Janeway was speaking from the position of strength and could easily set Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant as a condition of disabling the field. And since Suspiria attacked first, there woould bee nothing morally wrong in such terms. Instead, Janeway just disables the field to show that she's good. I can't speak for the crew but if I had been there and known about it, I would have thrown her out of the nearest airlock. And I'm unironically surprised that no crew member (especially from the former Maquis) had done it.

Alternatively, they could have tried to strike a deal with the new Ocampa leader after Suspiria and Tanis left. If Tuvok was able to figure out how to transport ships to immense distances using the array and shared this knowledge with the Ocampa living on the array, they would have become rich as fuck.

Seriously, the more I watch Voyager, the more I come to the conclusion that Janeway, despite all her words and apparent love to Mark, in fact doesn't give a damn about returning.

 

[Frontis]

Well that's Janeway's character, sticking to her principles and rarely breaking rules.
Quite the opposite to Burnham who is breaking rules all the time.
Or like Kirk would rather break some rules than Picad because he reacts more emotional.
Sure it can be discussed which way is better...

 

[Reymet_2]

Well that's Janeway's character, sticking to her principles and rarely breaking rules.

And which rule forbids setting a condition for the being that had unprovokedly attacked the ship?

I'm not surprised that Janeway fucked up another chance to get back, I'm surprised that the entire crew (except Seska) complies with it. Given that even Tuvok (presumably the closest person to Janeway on the Voyager) is capable of breaking the rules when it's logical to do so and that a significant share of the crew are Maquis that had never got used to abide by any rules at all - there must have been a mutiny (perhaps not very large-scale, but nevertheless). But the only crew member who opposes Janeway's overzealous adherence to the principles is Seska.

 

[fireproof78]

Janeway violated sovereign territory and argued with Tuvok over how it broke rules.

She was only a stickler for rules as she deemed them necessary.

 

[NCC-73515]

If Tuvok was able to figure out how to transport ships to immense distances using the array and shared this knowledge with the Ocampa living on the array, they would have become rich as fuck.

Have you seen any Trek?

 

[Reymet_2]

Have you seen any Trek?

After DS9, the idea doesn't sound that inconceivable.

 

[Lynx]

When Suspiria had been weakened by the toxin and placed in the containment field, Janeway was speaking from the position of strength and could easily set Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant as a condition of disabling the field. And since Suspiria attacked first, there woould bee nothing morally wrong in such terms. Instead, Janeway just disables the field to show that she's good. I can't speak for the crew but if I had been there and known about it, I would have thrown her out of the nearest airlock. And I'm unironically surprised that no crew member (especially from the former Maquis) had done it.

Alternatively, they could have tried to strike a deal with the new Ocampa leader after Suspiria and Tanis left. If Tuvok was able to figure out how to transport ships to immense distances using the array and shared this knowledge with the Ocampa living on the array, they would have become rich as fuck.

Seriously, the more I watch Voyager, the more I come to the conclusion that Janeway, despite all her words and apparent love to Mark, in fact doesn't give a damn about returning.

She didn't do it because if she had did, the series would be over after one and a half season!

No, honestly, Janeway mostly stick to the rules but in this case she could at least have tried to talk Suspiria into it.

Sort of: "You tried to kill us but I have showed you mercy. Now please send us home and we won't bother this part of space anymore or the Ocampa on your array.

Of course she could have came up with a detailed description about how The Caretaker died, that Voyager actually tried to defend the Array against the Kazon and that they actually fulfilled The Caretaker's wish that the Array should be destroyed in order to prevent the Kazon to take over it.

Well that's Janeway's character, sticking to her principles and rarely breaking rules.
Quite the opposite to Burnham who is breaking rules all the time.
Or like Kirk would rather break some rules than Picad because he reacts more emotional.
Sure it can be discussed which way is better...

Janeway is somewhat better in the Voyager books. In The Garden, she comes very close to violate the Prime Directive and in the book Bless The Beasts, she first refuses to give the Sardalians a cure for the disease which plagues the planet and even cause a war on the planet, then coming up with a solution to the problem by simply trading the medicin to the planet in exchange for metal spare parts and food.

Personally I like Kirk's approach to problems better than Janeway's and Picard's. I like Sisko's way of handling things too.

Burnham? Oh dear!
Spare me from all DSC.

 

[fireproof78]

Have you seen any Trek?

No, not at all.

She didn't do it because if she had did, the series would be over after one and a half season!

Good!

Or maybe change up the format a little. I think there is more meat there but the "Will they/Won't they?" dangling of the carrot becomes tiring.

And, not to beat on Janeway but her way was not always the rules following one.

TUVOK: Would it affect your decision if I pointed out that encroaching on the territory of an alien species is prohibited by starfleet regulations?
JANEWAY: No, it wouldn't.
TUVOK: Captain, you have managed to surprise me.
JANEWAY: We're a long way from starfleet, Lieutenant. I'm not about to waste 15 months because we've run into a bunch of bullies.
~The Swarm

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Hey crazy Circus lady, I know I just cut one of your ears off, but can you shoot me over that fence over there with your clown cannon, but please, please don't pivot your clown canon 5 degrees left and shoot me over a cliff 90 feet down, to my my watery grave?"

Too much risk, not enough trust.

Even if Janeway hadn't just tortured Susperia, and killed her boyfriend, and murdered all the Ocampa, we take grandma's keys away from Grandma for a reason.

 

[Anwar]

When Suspiria had been weakened by the toxin and placed in the containment field, Janeway was speaking from the position of strength and could easily set Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant as a condition of disabling the field. And since Suspiria attacked first, there woould bee nothing morally wrong in such terms. Instead, Janeway just disables the field to show that she's good. I can't speak for the crew but if I had been there and known about it, I would have thrown her out of the nearest airlock. And I'm unironically surprised that no crew member (especially from the former Maquis) had done it.

Alternatively, they could have tried to strike a deal with the new Ocampa leader after Suspiria and Tanis left. If Tuvok was able to figure out how to transport ships to immense distances using the array and shared this knowledge with the Ocampa living on the array, they would have become rich as fuck.

Seriously, the more I watch Voyager, the more I come to the conclusion that Janeway, despite all her words and apparent love to Mark, in fact doesn't give a damn about returning.

Same reason the Professor on Gilligan's Island couldn't fix a boat despite all the other stuff he could make. Because then the show would be over.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Same reason the Professor on Gilligan's Island couldn't fix a boat despite all the other stuff he could make. Because then the show would be over.

The Professor was not leaving that island until he turned the Skipper.

 

[Lynx]

No, not at all.


Good!

Or maybe change up the format a little. I think there is more meat there but the "Will they/Won't they?" dangling of the carrot becomes tiring.

And, not to beat on Janeway but her way was not always the rules following one.

TUVOK: Would it affect your decision if I pointed out that encroaching on the territory of an alien species is prohibited by starfleet regulations?
JANEWAY: No, it wouldn't.
TUVOK: Captain, you have managed to surprise me.
JANEWAY: We're a long way from starfleet, Lieutenant. I'm not about to waste 15 months because we've run into a bunch of bullies.
~The Swarm

I should have thought of the dialogue above from The Swarm when I wrote about two occasions in the Voyager books where Janeway more and less abandoned the Prime Directive. It's a good examle, pity that I didn't think about it yesterday.

Janeway was a bit unpredictable sometimes. most of the time she uphold Starfleet rules and praised them and all of a sudden she could abandon them.

 

[PatB1974]

Kirk would have done it.

 

[at Quark's]

Well that's Janeway's character, sticking to her principles and rarely breaking rules.

Well, when the writers felt like it, yes. In another episode she just might have followed the topic starter's suggestion. One of the problems of the Janeway character is that she's written somewhat inconsistently between episodes.

That said, perhaps the question wasn't really in order. I always assumed that the transporting thingy was an Array capability, not necessarily a capability of individual Nacene. Perhaps Susperia couldn't have built another Array even if she'd wanted to. (The Caretaker and she, after all, were the last remaining of a larger group of Nacene travelers).

But I agree that the question could at least have popped up between them in the episode. Then again, the question of trust is important too, as Guy points out. She's weak now, perhaps not push your luck and get away while she needs time to recover. There's no guarantee she wouldn't attack again, even after her release by Janeway.

EDIT: looked it up and it seems like she did have an Array, allbeit a much smaller one. Not sure where the assumption that the other Nacene entity could send them home comes from. The Caretaker doesn't say a thing like that.

 

[Frontis]

Well, when the writers felt like it, yes. In another episode she just might have followed the topic starter's suggestion. One of the problems of the Janeway character is that she's written somewhat inconsistently between episodes.

That said, perhaps the question wasn't really in order. I always assumed that the transporting thingy was an Array capability, not necessarily a capability of individual Nacene. Perhaps Susperia couldn't have built another Array even if she'd wanted to. (The Caretaker and she, after all, were the last remaining of a larger group of Nacene travelers).

But I agree that the question could at least have popped up between them in the episode. Then again, the question of trust is important too, as Guy points out. She's weak now, perhaps not push your luck and get away while she needs time to recover. There's no guarantee she wouldn't attack again, even after her release by Janeway.

EDIT: looked it up and it seems like she did have an Array, allbeit a much smaller one. Not sure where the assumption that the other Nacene entity could send them home comes from. The Caretaker doesn't say a thing like that.

I didn't say Janeway's principles are always the principles of the Federation

 

[at Quark's]

^In that case, (according to you) what are Janeway's principles, then?

The ones I can think of right now is trying to trying to get her people home (with as few casualties as possible), and not causing any needless (collateral) harm to any species they come across, where the exact interpretation of 'needless' may shift a bit from episode to episode, perhaps.

 

[DonIago]

If you were in Janeway's place, would you take Suspiria at her word if she said she'd send you home?

 

[Akiraprise]

Suspiria was most certainly unfriendly. Sparing her was the Starfleet way of course. Even if she had told Janeway she'd send the ship home right then and there I don't think Janeway could take the chance. In fact I'd bet Suspiria would have destroyed Voyager out of spite. Not following up with this thread is another of VOY's missed opportunities.

 

[Dee1891]

It seemed obvious that Suspiria had made tracks before Janeway could do anything further. I don't think Janeway wanted to take the chance of making matters even worse between Suspiria and the Voyager crew. Also, their encounter happened in early Season Two. Isn't that a bit early?

 

[Akiraprise]

The early producers wanted Suspiria to be their "out" if the network made them bring Voyager home early since the suits weren't entirely comfortable with the premise. Which they pretty much dropped around S4 anyway. No Borg talk back then. I got the impression that Suspiria was supposed to be a bigger deal than what ended up happening.