Cogenitor

[PhoenixIreland]

THIS is what the prequal should have been about more and I'm glad they did it.

Since there was no prime direcive drilled into them as cadets it's only natural they'd be ethnocentric but I loved this episode and am glad they didn't puss out by just havng the aliens be pissed off and have a reprimand put in Trips file, there were serious effects in a suicide.
I'm thinking Trip should have been demoted at least a grade tho as punishment, instead of the "go to your room and think about what you've done" that he got

 

[angie]

Even though I all for Trip getting punished ---I think because there was no Prime Directive yet and Archer felt responsible it wasn't the time. I liked that not all the first contacts went smooth and wished they had done more along that line.

 

[suebsg9]

THIS is what the prequal should have been about more and I'm glad they did it.

Since there was no prime direcive drilled into them as cadets it's only natural they'd be ethnocentric but I loved this episode and am glad they didn't puss out by just havng the aliens be pissed off and have a reprimand put in Trips file, there were serious effects in a suicide.
I'm thinking Trip should have been demoted at least a grade tho as punishment, instead of the "go to your room and think about what you've done" that he got

I don't see why Trip would have been needed to be demoted yes he showed the Cogenitor what was out there but he didn't put the idea of suicide in the Cogenitors mind.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

THIS is what the prequal should have been about more and I'm glad they did it.

Since there was no prime direcive drilled into them as cadets it's only natural they'd be ethnocentric but I loved this episode and am glad they didn't puss out by just havng the aliens be pissed off and have a reprimand put in Trips file, there were serious effects in a suicide.
I'm thinking Trip should have been demoted at least a grade tho as punishment, instead of the "go to your room and think about what you've done" that he got

I don't see why Trip would have been needed to be demoted yes he showed the Cogenitor what was out there but he didn't put the idea of suicide in the Cogenitors mind.

He knew he was violating the tenets of someone elses culture and waging a one man social engineering campagn

 

[Michael]

Simply the best episode of Enterprise, IMHO.

Love Andreas Katsulas' cameo as the Vissian captain.

 

[suebsg9]

Simply the best episode of Enterprise, IMHO.

Love Andreas Katsulas' cameo as the Vissian captain.

Agree it is one of the best!

 

[startrekwatcher]

Perhaps ENT's most overrated episode.

I could definitely see what it was trying to do but it simply wasn't effective. I didn't care for the way the writers didn't handle the A-plot well enough and there was no need for cramming two irrelevant subplots into the show.

 

[SFRabid]

One of my least favorite episodes. It portrayed Trip as having no discipline or self control. While portrayal of his heart was well intentioned it was very out of character for him to be such a bad officer.

 

[commodore64]

I liked it. I thought it brought up a situation where you felt for all the characters. I have to admit, my husband was shouting "No!" to Trip the entire episode and I had to agree. Trip made some poor choices, but the entire crew was learning -- too bad his error was at the cost of a person.

I will never understand why people think - without doubt - that Trip did the right thing. And though that boggles the mind, nor do I think he should've been punished more than he was.

The one thing I think, though, that should be taken a look at is his steadfast refusal to follow T'Pol's orders -- she's above him in the command line. This command line is one that Archer agrees with and that Starfleet agrees with. Trip, imo, had problems sometimes following orders. I don't find this noble; instead, I find it problematic for the command line.

 

[Hoshi's sis]

One of my least favorite episodes. It portrayed Trip as having no discipline or self control. While portrayal of his heart was well intentioned it was very out of character for him to be such a bad officer.

How is it out of character? We know he is an emotional person who wears his heart on his sleeve. This persons plight evoked an emotion out of him - to help. She was treated no more than an object, so I'm sure others, if presented with the same quandary would try to help as well. IMO, it seemed in character for him to help her.

Granted it got out of hand, but considering he had seen his captain, who he views as a mentor, do pratically the same thing on a number of occasions - I can certainly understand why he went ahead in his quest to help. The only difference is unfortunately for him, unlike Teflon Archer, it backfired tragically.

 

[suebsg9]

I liked it. I thought it brought up a situation where you felt for all the characters. I have to admit, my husband was shouting "No!" to Trip the entire episode and I had to agree. Trip made some poor choices, but the entire crew was learning -- too bad his error was at the cost of a person.

I will never understand why people think - without doubt - that Trip did the right thing. And though that boggles the mind, nor do I think he should've been punished more than he was.

The one thing I think, though, that should be taken a look at is his steadfast refusal to follow T'Pol's orders -- she's above him in the command line. This command line is one that Archer agrees with and that Starfleet agrees with. Trip, imo, had problems sometimes following orders. I don't find this noble; instead, I find it problematic for the command line.

I always wish that the next eps would follow up on the eps before you know talk about it but you never get that with series; its not like the next day! And you kinda wish they would talk about it bring it up or something. But agree I think with me Tpol told him he shouldn't be doing it and he did so guessing writers must have thought his and ARchers talk was all he needed seeing that he was kinda following by example: Archer.

But you kinda wish for once do a follow up or something on a story yet never happens. I think the follow ups happend or they got it was in S3! But this would have been a good story to do a next day and how Trip was handling the news and Archer talking to Starfleet and such. Something but never happens; thats why you got fan fic writers to follow up when writers don't.

 

[Hoshi's sis]

I liked it. I thought it brought up a situation where you felt for all the characters. I have to admit, my husband was shouting "No!" to Trip the entire episode and I had to agree. Trip made some poor choices, but the entire crew was learning -- too bad his error was at the cost of a person.

I will never understand why people think - without doubt - that Trip did the right thing. And though that boggles the mind, nor do I think he should've been punished more than he was.

The one thing I think, though, that should be taken a look at is his steadfast refusal to follow T'Pol's orders -- she's above him in the command line. This command line is one that Archer agrees with and that Starfleet agrees with. Trip, imo, had problems sometimes following orders. I don't find this noble; instead, I find it problematic for the command line.

I always wish that the next eps would follow up on the eps before you know talk about it but you never get that with series; its not like the next day! And you kinda wish they would talk about it bring it up or something. But agree I think with me Tpol told him he shouldn't be doing it and he did so guessing writers must have thought his and ARchers talk was all he needed seeing that he was kinda following by example: Archer.

But you kinda wish for once do a follow up or something on a story yet never happens. I think the follow ups happend or they got it was in S3! But this would have been a good story to do a next day and how Trip was handling the news and Archer talking to Starfleet and such. Something but never happens; thats why you got fan fic writers to follow up when writers don't.

T'Pol never made it an order, it was advice as she saw it. She never said, I ordered you not to do this or not to do that. She offered her two pence worth, just like Phlox did.

 

[jonnyskywatcher]

I liked this episode even though for me it was very frustrating as I am completely on Trip's side and against the Prime Directive and the idea of complete non-interference. If circumstances had been more extreme, say the aliens have another alien race (of equal intelligence) as slaves that they occasionally slaughter for fun, doing so in front of the Enterprise crew, do you think the Enterprise shouldn't interfere? What if they had taken one of the crew and given them on of theirs and said it was an important custom that the captains of both ships eat one of the crew members of the others. Should the Enterprise (no matter what era) stand down and say, "Okay," because they don't want to destroy this culture.

Because that's what non-interference is, and I really don't like the idea that the Enterprise has to take it whenever they run into an alien culture, and it never goes the other way. The Humans are always expected to accept the aliens and the aliens are almost never expected to respect ours.

Like in the episode they offend those aliens by eating in front of them. Okay, I can go with that, since the aliens were guests on the Enterprise; it's a little much considering that if the Enterprise went onto an alien ship full of fornicating aliens they would have to suck it up. Later, when they go to the alien's homeworld and are guests there, they have to apologize for Archer's dog. Why? They were guests in their home, and the aliens didn't tell them anything about sacred trees and what not to do. If the aliens are in the right to be offended when they're guests, then Archer has is in the right to be offended for being unceremoniously kicked off planet. The aliens want it both ways, and they shouldn't get it.

One could argue that the Enterprise is supposed to act as diplomats, but what kind of diplomats are they if they make everybody think they can walk right over them. Sometimes in diplomacy you have to show a little backbone.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Without the Prime Directive the UFPs resources would be exausted helping primitive races and they'd be getting themselves into wars and conflicts every 2 minutes.

 

[suebsg9]

I liked it. I thought it brought up a situation where you felt for all the characters. I have to admit, my husband was shouting "No!" to Trip the entire episode and I had to agree. Trip made some poor choices, but the entire crew was learning -- too bad his error was at the cost of a person.

I will never understand why people think - without doubt - that Trip did the right thing. And though that boggles the mind, nor do I think he should've been punished more than he was.

The one thing I think, though, that should be taken a look at is his steadfast refusal to follow T'Pol's orders -- she's above him in the command line. This command line is one that Archer agrees with and that Starfleet agrees with. Trip, imo, had problems sometimes following orders. I don't find this noble; instead, I find it problematic for the command line.

I always wish that the next eps would follow up on the eps before you know talk about it but you never get that with series; its not like the next day! And you kinda wish they would talk about it bring it up or something. But agree I think with me Tpol told him he shouldn't be doing it and he did so guessing writers must have thought his and ARchers talk was all he needed seeing that he was kinda following by example: Archer.

But you kinda wish for once do a follow up or something on a story yet never happens. I think the follow ups happend or they got it was in S3! But this would have been a good story to do a next day and how Trip was handling the news and Archer talking to Starfleet and such. Something but never happens; thats why you got fan fic writers to follow up when writers don't.

T'Pol never made it an order, it was advice as she saw it. She never said, I ordered you not to do this or not to do that. She offered her two pence worth, just like Phlox did.

I will give Trip this he did like I said talk to Phlox and Tpol about it; they knew what he was doing; but I know Tpol kinda warned him with the fact the captain was makeing nice with that one guy he was flying around with; I guess with this eps it couldn't be a happy ending there had to be consequences to get a point across and guessing Cogenitors death was it. I mean its an intresting eps to which yes paints Trip in bad light but he made a mistake; but thought it was intresting he took intrest in the Cogenitors. I mean was the crew forbidden to meet up with them; haven't seen this eps in a while and can't really remember it cause I see a scene on You Tube from the show were Phlox is talking to him about the Cogenitor and just wondering did ARcher order not to go around them or what? But a follow up of sorts would always be nice always wish that in an eps of any show not many do that were its the next day.

 

[commodore64]

Phlox offers advice. He's a doctor. He's not the second in command.

T'Pol, imo, had to pull the, "Wait 'til your father gets home" routine with Trip. Because what happened when Archer got back, T'Pol updated Archer on what Trip had done. Phlox didn't. Phlox gave advice.

 

[jonnyskywatcher]

Without the Prime Directive the UFPs resources would be exausted helping primitive races and they'd be getting themselves into wars and conflicts every 2 minutes.

I'm not saying that the entire idea of the Prime Directive is bad, just that I don't like that it's okay (in terms of the show's presentation) for everybody else to violate it, because that is their culture or something stupid like that.

Like in the TNG episode where the aliens (that looked completely human) were going to kill Wesley because he had stepped on the grass or something. As a diplomat of the Federation he should have been immune to the laws of that culture specifically because he doesn't come from there and he is their guest.

You don't yell at a guest for not taking off their shoes if you made no effort whatsoever to tell them about it.

And wouldn't you think the Klingons (and who knows how many other aliens) would see Earth as an easy target from this weak diplomacy?

 

[pookha]

there are two episodes that should have been first season episodes.
first flight is one of them and cogenitor is the other.
really cogenitor should have been pre desert crossing.
it is just so odd that trip was the way he was in cogenitor especially in not taking more time to look further into things when in desert crossing it is trip is advising archer to be cautious about getting involved.

and it still has a big failing in not giving us more of a reason of why archer decided what he did.

when he first went into the meeting with the alien captain and the couple he himself seemed to be coming down in favor of granting charles the request for asylum.

I'm afraid it may not be that simple. On my world, when someone asks for asylum it has to be given serious consideration.
.....


I've been asked to give sanctuary to someone who believes she's been treated unfairly. I can't ignore that.
.. You can't expect me to ignore someone when they ask for my protection.

and then all of sudden we see archer going to tell charles they have to leave.

one seriously wonders if archer learned of some new info that helped him decide to not grant the reuqest the swing is so sudden .

 

[angie]

I think the ep was timed perfectly.Even in the Expanse we see Trip as being against following T'Pol's guidance still whereas Archer had long come to rely on it whether he followed it or not. Trip never looked into anything culturally nor was he interested even in season 4.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Without the Prime Directive the UFPs resources would be exausted helping primitive races and they'd be getting themselves into wars and conflicts every 2 minutes.

I'm not saying that the entire idea of the Prime Directive is bad, just that I don't like that it's okay (in terms of the show's presentation) for everybody else to violate it, because that is their culture or something stupid like that.

Like in the TNG episode where the aliens (that looked completely human) were going to kill Wesley because he had stepped on the grass or something. As a diplomat of the Federation he should have been immune to the laws of that culture specifically because he doesn't come from there and he is their guest.

You don't yell at a guest for not taking off their shoes if you made no effort whatsoever to tell them about it.

And wouldn't you think the Klingons (and who knows how many other aliens) would see Earth as an easy target from this weak diplomacy?

Good point and I think that was the reasoning in rescuing him.
They DO seem to give case by case basis leeway in breaking it as weve seen so it's not as ridgid as you may think