CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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I agree, although I can also picture someone saying to Lane "Leave my name out of it, I don't want to be associated with that load of old nonsense"
Remember that blog post by Axanar surrogate Jonathan Lane claiming it made more financial sense to build Axanar's studio than to rent one? After many people (detractors, he naturally states) did simple Google searches showing the basis of his claim was fundamentally wrong, Jonathan posted today on Fan Film Factor a mea culpa, "CORRECTION! — It was NOT CHEAPER (as far as I can tell) for AXANAR PRODUCTIONS to BUILD a studio than to RENT one."
And all his fans (and even some "detractors") lauded him for his honesty in coming clean about his bad information (which he actually blamed on somebody else...)? Well, Jonathan now claims even Alec Peters himself corrected him, saying, "Alec Peters IM’d me a few hours later:
« $15,000 a day? Jonathan, if you are going to write about stuff like this then you need to check your facts. A sound stage doesnt cost $15,000 a day. A stage our size might cost between $3,000 and $5,000 a day.»"
Here's the trouble with that newly spun version of events:
And all his fans (and even some "detractors") lauded him for his honesty in coming clean about his bad information (which he actually blamed on somebody else...)? Well, Jonathan now claims even Alec Peters himself corrected him, saying, "Alec Peters IM’d me a few hours later:
« $15,000 a day? Jonathan, if you are going to write about stuff like this then you need to check your facts. A sound stage doesnt cost $15,000 a day. A stage our size might cost between $3,000 and $5,000 a day.»"
Here's the trouble with that newly spun version of events:
- Jonathan first published his calculations as a comment on a blog more than TWO WEEKS prior. It was sitting out there for some time, in Peters' full view, uncorrected because it suited his studio-building narrative.
- Jonathan published that information, now written as a full blog post, on February 17 around 10 am.
- Within "a few hours," Jonathan stated in his mea culpa today, Alec Peters corrected him. Really? It turns out Peters posted a tweet February 17 at 12:39 pm — more than 2.5 hours after Jonathan's post — directing supporters to the FFF blog, even though he supposedly knew its conclusion was based on bad figures, just so he could claim Axanar was just "like three other Star Trek fan films [that] built out a studio."
- Having purportedly corrected his surrogate by IM that same day, Peters did nothing to correct what he had to now know was his own inaccurate tweet that, naturally, contradicted statements about the other films' studios he'd made more than a year before (about which we posted here on February 18).
- And even the supposedly more accurate figures Peters is said to have quoted to Jonathan appear to be wrong. Peter said, "A stage our size might cost between $ 3,000 and $ 5,000 a day." In supposedly cheaper Valencia? When Jody Wheeler's own follow-up post on Saturday found a much bigger (20K sq. ft) studio in Burbank (compared to Axanar's 15K sq. ft. facility) renting for less than $2,000 a day?
- Seems to me if you're going to be quoting a daily rate for your own studio at 2x the going rate in the same market you ain't gonna be in business for long. Nor does it show you did much in the way of market research before either embarking on your own business venture, nor when you allegedly "corrected" your surrogate for making a mistake.
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One would think that in such a small circle, they could get their story straight. Then again, that's probably hard to do, since the narrative changes depending on which way the wind is blowing.Remember that blog post by Axanar surrogate Jonathan Lane claiming it made more financial sense to build Axanar's studio than to rent one? After many people (detractors, he naturally states) did simple Google searches showing the basis of his claim was fundamentally wrong, Jonathan posted today on Fan Film Factor a mea culpa, "CORRECTION! — It was NOT CHEAPER (as far as I can tell) for AXANAR PRODUCTIONS to BUILD a studio than to RENT one."
And all his fans (and even some "detractors") lauded him for his honesty in coming clean about his bad information (which he actually blamed on somebody else...)? Well, Jonathan now claims even Alec Peters himself corrected him, saying, "Alec Peters IM’d me a few hours later:
« $15,000 a day? Jonathan, if you are going to write about stuff like this then you need to check your facts. A sound stage doesnt cost $15,000 a day. A stage our size might cost between $3,000 and $5,000 a day.»"
Here's the trouble with that newly spun version of events:
- Jonathan first published his calculations as a comment on a blog more than TWO WEEKS prior. It was sitting out there for some time, in Peters' full view, uncorrected because it suited his studio-building narrative.
- Jonathan published that information, now written as a full blog post, on February 17 around 10 am.
- Within "a few hours," Jonathan stated in his mea culpa today, Alec Peters corrected him. Really? It turns out Peters posted a tweet February 17 at 12:39 pm — more than 2.5 hours after Jonathan's post — directing supporters to the FFF blog, even though he supposedly knew its conclusion was based on bad figures, just so he could claim Axanar was just "like three other Star Trek fan films [that] built out a studio."
- Having purportedly corrected his surrogate by IM that same day, Peters did nothing to correct what he had to now know was his own inaccurate tweet that, naturally, contradicted statements about the other films' studios he'd made more than a year before (about which we posted here on February 18).
- And even the supposedly more accurate figures Peters is said to have quoted to Jonathan appear to be wrong. Peter said, "A stage our size might cost between $ 3,000 and $ 5,000 a day." In supposedly cheaper Valencia? When Jody Wheeler's own follow-up post on Saturday found a much bigger (20K sq. ft) studio in Burbank (compared to Axanar's 15K sq. ft. facility) renting for less than $2,000 a day?
- Seems to me if you're going to be quoting a daily rate for your own studio at 2x the going rate in the same market you ain't gonna be in business for long. Nor does it show you did much in the way of market research before either embarking on your own business venture, nor when you allegedly "corrected" your surrogate for making a mistake.
I really wish CBS/P would have nailed LFIM, that lying sack of Axacrap, to the wall. But hey, it ain't over 'til it's over.
-The inaccurate tweet = "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!"
Does that indicate it has been removed from Twitter?
- (about which we posted here on February 18)
Needs a log-in?
Peters has indeed removed the tweet praising Fan Film Factor's incorrect blog post. This isn't surprising because:
(a) Peters often deletes tweets and FB posts when he's proven wrong; and
(b) Jonathan said he would tell Peters to take it down; and
(c) Naturally, Peters simply removes the tweet — it never happened! —rather than admit he was wrong.
If you don't do Facebook, I tweeted pretty much the same thing on Saturday about the continuing deception regarding Axanar's studio. That's available here.
And in the continuing saga of Axanar surrogate Jonathan Lane contorting himself to justify the folly of wasting donor money on an apparently failing commercial business, there's this claim about Renegades. @Tom, any truth to Lane's quoting below of Renegades' studio costs?
Looks like he is referring to the pilot since the Requim was only filmed for 7 days at 3 different stages (2 days, 3 days then 2 days a month later). The pilot was filmed at laurel canyon stages in October 2013. Renting the stage was not one of my responsibilities, so I can not confirm or deny any numbers thrown out. Your best bet would be to simplify call Laural Canyon and get there rates for a 2 week shoot.
For a one off film, it is is obviously much cheaper to rent a stage and get your filming done, so you can use the funds to get the best production and post work possible. If you are a continuing production like NV and Continues you obviously want a set place to film. New Voyages made the best use of their money by filming in an old auto dealership (before they moved), it was quite amazing what they did to the old place, you really had to be there to full appreciate that, and their inginuity to film the episodes, I was always impressed when I was there. I know STC is also frugal about the place they use to get their episodes done in a economical way, yet produce at the great quality they do.
As for Axanar, it makes no sense to sign a 2 year lease on a studio when they have not even made their primary film yet. If I were them, I would have made the film a few months after the first Kickstarter in a rented studio and got it DONE. I would have then run a indiegogo to get funds to help get the Post done, then I would release the product to keep all my donors happy. If the film was great and had great feedback, I would be looking into making more, but I might have not rented a full fledged studio for 15k a month, I would look for a cheaper place to rent and film. (remmember NV filmed in a old auto dealership!). Alec was trying to go for the best before he even had a horse in the race. You need to wisely use your donor money to give them the best production possible!
One of my favorte Sci-if shows, Babylon 5, actually filmed mostly everything in an old Hot Tub factory! True story, and goes to prove you can shoot quality sci-if almost anywhere, if you have enough ingenuity and drive to do it!
What does God need with a 15k a month professional studio anyways?
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I thought AP leased the warehouse / studio for 3 years but having to pay 1 year up front. This brings up another question for me; when was the lease signed? It's been at least a year and a half or maybe close to two now so is there really any much of a chance that this thing will be profitable in the next year when AP has to vacate or renew. In either case it should be interesting to see what spin they put on it (which could be they leased a warehouse / studio for 3 years and filmed nothing). Time will tell!
I believe they are a month or two into the last year of a 3 year lease. Can they make a viable, self sustaining business in less than a year? They haven't yet, and they are out of money. So, not looking very good.
Maybe it was 3 years. Either way that's even worse, to commit for that length of time and contribute a huge chunk of donor money to pay for the first year. Very bad business decisions for sure and a major gamble of donors money.
Even if you totally forget about Axanar. To to comit to a 3 year lease at about 15k a months in hopes to have rented out to make up your costs in LA is a very risky gamble. Does he have any idea how many studios are for rent in the LA area? A shitload! Most business analysts in the area would highly disapprove of that gamble. maybe because it was donors money, Alec felt emboldened to take such a business risk. On top of that, the building need some major renovations that would also chew up any potential profit.
Even if you totally forget about Axanar. To to comit to a 3 year lease at about 15k a months in hopes to have rented out to make up your costs in LA is a very risky gamble. Does he have any idea how many studios are for rent in the LA area? A shitload! Most business analysts in the area would highly disapprove of that gamble. maybe because it was donors money, Alec felt emboldened to take such a business risk. On top of that, the building need some major renovations that would also chew up any potential profit.
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Thanks. I 'think' I got them. Let me see if I can do this.
Nope. I couldn't get the images to show up in this post.
But I was able to bring over the log that goes with this picture in one of them:
Once Upon A Time -- October 12, 2915
Hey, months of good times previously with several big things following that 'did' come over the next few months!
CBS & Paramount came to visit for just over a year.
There were lots of fun conventions.
Plenty of gas for the cars and telephones for the friends.
Lots of eating out at restaurants. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of eating out at restaurants. Eating out is just the best!
Like Tony Todd did... Christian Gossett had enough of something
Let's see, the guy from I think it was the OKC studio was accused of something he didn't do.
And you got to make lots of threatening calls, IMs, emails, and such. How great is that!
There was that guideline thing too!
Don't forget that $5,000 movie theater rental to play your 20 minute film. That was greaaattt!!
And your super awesome Trekzone.com interview!
There were lots of people hanging on your every word! Taking pictures of your every word, filing & cross referencing your every word.. and that fun stuff - fact checking your every word so in case it'd slip your mind somehow they could show you exactly what you'd said previously... and where you'd said it. You lil ole minor celebrity of a tiny niche subgroup of a subgroup, you!! Lots of people just Getting to knoooow youuu. Getting to know alllllllll a-bout youuuu. Marni Nixon had such a beautiful voice. I'll miss her.
There was that three minute scene!
And the lovely Erin Ranahan.
Like Tony Todd and Christian Gossett did... Terry McIntosh had enough of something too. Odd.
There was a lot of banning. "Your Fired!!" Good times.
Whole bunches of deletings. "I'll delete 'this' one... and 'this' one... oh, let's delete that one... and let's delete all of that." Fun Fun Fun
Some kind of kerfuffle about some money, where'd it go or something
You started a new shell company. Yay.
A mix-up or something about financial records.
3 million dead people and illegal aliens voted against you. No. Wait. That wasn't Mini-Me was it. That was behavioral doppelganger Dr. Evil. Apologies.
But there were trips to Europe! Trips, like eating out, are just the best!.
Tons of social media interaction. You and praetor drumph I'll tell ya. Like two peas in a pod!
There were those buses with lots of people winding up under them. Weird, huh.
I know you said you reallllly wanted to see the Ninth Circuit. Sorry you didn't get to.
So there 'were' some big things that came along those next few months after all! Say, how's your friend from China doing?
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The more I think about this, the more I think LFIM/Slow Lane's blathering is just wanton ego stroking - if any of the faithful are still left and listening to it, I think I can count their number on one hand.
What I'm really interested in is about how long it'll be before this narcissistic tool runs out of money to pay for his 'studio'......
What I'm really interested in is about how long it'll be before this narcissistic tool runs out of money to pay for his 'studio'......
Has anyone ever seen the two of them together in the same room?
I think several of us have that thought........Has anyone ever seen the two of them together in the same room?
You get my undying love with the Marni Nixon reference.Thanks. I 'think' I got them. Let me see if I can do this.
Nope. I couldn't get the images to show up in this post.
But I was able to bring over the log that goes with this picture in one of them:
Once Upon A Time -- October 12, 2915
Hey, several big things 'did' come over the next few months!
CBS & Paramount came to visit for just over a year.
There were lots of fun conventions.
Plenty of gas for the cars and telephones for the friends.
Lots of eating out at restaurants. Thousands and thousands of dollars for eating out at restaurants. Eating out is fun.
Like Tony Todd did Christian Gossett ... had enough of something
Let's see, the guy from I think it was the OKC studio was accused of something
And you got to make lots of threatening calls, IMs, emails, and such. How great is that!
There was that guideline thing too!
Don't forget that $5,000 movie theater to play your 20 minute film. That was greaaattt!!
And that great Trekzone.com interview
There were lots of people hanging on your every word. Taking pictures of your every word, you celebrity of a tiny niche subgroup of a subgroup, you! Getting to knoooow youuu. Getting to know allllll a-bout youuuu Marni Nixon had such a beautiful voice. I'll miss her.
There was that three minute scene!
Like Tony Todd and Christian Gossett did... Terry McIntosh had enough of something too. Odd.
There was a lot of banning. "Your Fired!!" Good times.
Whole bunches of deletings. "I'll delete 'this' one... and 'this' one... oh, let's delete that one... and let's delete all of that" Fun Fun Fun
Some kind of kerfuffle about some money, where'd it go or something
You started a new shell company. Yay.
A mix-up or something about financial records.
3 million dead people and illegal aliens voted against you. No. Wait. That wasn't Mini-Me.. That was Dr. Evil wasn't it. Apologies.
But there were trips to Europe. Trips are fun.
Tons of social media interaction. You and Predator Drumph I'll tell ya. You're just like peas in a pod!
And the lovely Erin Ranahan.
There were several buses with lots of people being run over by them.
I know you said you reallllly wanted to see the Ninth Circuit. Sorry you didn't get to.
So there 'were' some big things that came along those next few months after all! Say, how are your Chinese friends doing?
So, if Peters admits it would've been cheaper to rent just for the length of the filming rather than get a studio for 3 years, isn't he admitting to donors he spent the money poorly?
Wouldn't this be useful for a lawsuit.... Not that I believe that is going to happen...
Wouldn't this be useful for a lawsuit.... Not that I believe that is going to happen...
HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Babylon 5 was actually filmed in an abandoned space station in orbit over Epsilon III Eridani. Get your facts straight!One of my favorte Sci-if shows, Babylon 5, actually filmed mostly everything in an old Hot Tub factory! True story, and goes to prove you can shoot quality sci-if almost anywhere, if you have enough ingenuity and drive to do it!
What does God need with a 15k a month professional studio anyways?
The upsetting thing for me is that I mentioned the problems with Alec's numbers last year. It was why I got involved: Alec was making wild claims and shutting critics down because they had no experience in making films.
He took advantage of people's ignorance -- ignorance not in a pejorative sense -- to justify some pretty horrible choices. He's doubled down on those horrible choices consistently, until even the most fawning fan realizes things don't add up.
Case in point, these dumb rental numbers again. Alec was pushing this narrative through FFF right up until the light bulb went on over Jonathan's head and he backtracked-- then the tweet and links were deleted.
Has Axanar issued a correction? No. Will they? I'm not inclined to think they will. In the mean time, a lot of good people are out their money because of arrogance. Many of them are going to throw yet more money into this to see Axanar, the most expensive fan film ever, finally made.
He took advantage of people's ignorance -- ignorance not in a pejorative sense -- to justify some pretty horrible choices. He's doubled down on those horrible choices consistently, until even the most fawning fan realizes things don't add up.
Case in point, these dumb rental numbers again. Alec was pushing this narrative through FFF right up until the light bulb went on over Jonathan's head and he backtracked-- then the tweet and links were deleted.
Has Axanar issued a correction? No. Will they? I'm not inclined to think they will. In the mean time, a lot of good people are out their money because of arrogance. Many of them are going to throw yet more money into this to see Axanar, the most expensive fan film ever, finally made.
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