Case dismissed! Discovery and Tardigrade game "not similar"

[Campe]

This looks more like an accident, than a coincidence. But certainly not intentional.
Something just slipping through quality control at CBS. Probably because the source was so obscure, and added behind-the-scenes drama. Definitely no malevolence involved. If that's what happened.

Okay, I thought I could leave this with my GIF from last night but I can’t. I need you to really open your brain for a second here, Rahul, listen to facts and just consider the idea that CBS wasn't stealing, intentionally or not, from the little guy.

Star Trek: Discovery is a TV show with relatively high production values. The show has been compared to a movie in this regard and while there have been significant improvements in the effects in season two, those in the first year weren’t any slouch either. One of those visual effects is Ripper, a creature that actually interacts a bit with live action elements. This requires a lot of work, both on set and off to achieve and that requires time.

Abdin never once released a video showing the Tardigrade’s FTL ability until July 2017. There was no evidence that this method of travel was in his game design and setup until this time. At that point, Star Trek Discovery’s fifteen episode first season had been in production for six months, not to mention the fifteen months since the show started development with Fuller at the helm. Likely, by the time that Abdin’s video had been released, the series was well into at least shooting Episode 10, the writing for the season was done and effects work had to at least be completed on Episode 3 or 4, and in the early stages up to Episode 6 or 7 which meant Ripper had been in the works for awhile. In fact, digging through the TrekCore archives, I was able to find this:

On July 25, 2017 Jonathan Frakes was working on episode 10 of season 1, "Despite Yourself." That is thirteen days after the first appearance of the Tardigrade hug from Abdin's game. The Discovery production had left Ripper behind and was in the mirror universe. The design of the Tardigrade had to be much earlier based on this photo (which unfortunately is undated) from earlier in the season.

There is no evidence of man-sized Tardigrades prior to that July 12th video in any of Abdin's work. Believe me, I spent more time than I should have digging through his website last night. The more evidence I'm able to drum up, the more I am convinced that this is just two things that developed around the same time. Nothing more. Nothing less.

So a full three months after the first trailer for Discovery which featured the "stolen" characters and blue uniforms/blue lighting. They must have loved his stuff even before Tardigrades came along. Then of course they went back and remade early episodes to include his updates.

Now, too be fair, in my research, Abdin's videos from as early as 2014 show blue uniforms. Along with green ones. Black ones. And purple ones. But I still think there's a certain amount of this...

in this...

And if I was going to be completely honest, this...

is a lot closer than the first one than the second.

And which one came first? Hmmmmmm.....

 

[Rahul]

Okay, I thought I could leave this with my GIF from last night but I can’t. I need you to really open your brain for a second here, Rahul, listen to facts and just consider the idea that CBS wasn't stealing, intentionally or not, from the little guy.

Star Trek: Discovery is a TV show with relatively high production values. The show has been compared to a movie in this regard and while there have been significant improvements in the effects in season two, those in the first year weren’t any slouch either. One of those visual effects is Ripper, a creature that actually interacts a bit with live action elements. This requires a lot of work, both on set and off to achieve and that requires time.

Abdin never once released a video showing the Tardigrade’s FTL ability until July 2017. There was no evidence that this method of travel was in his game design and setup until this time. At that point, Star Trek Discovery’s fifteen episode first season had been in production for six months, not to mention the fifteen months since the show started development with Fuller at the helm. Likely, by the time that Abdin’s video had been released, the series was well into at least shooting Episode 10, the writing for the season was done and effects work had to at least be completed on Episode 3 or 4, and in the early stages up to Episode 6 or 7 which meant Ripper had been in the works for awhile. In fact, digging through the TrekCore archives, I was able to find this:

On July 25, 2017 Jonathan Frakes was working on episode 10 of season 1, "Despite Yourself." That is thirteen days after the first appearance of the Tardigrade hug from Abdin's game. The Discovery production had left Ripper behind and was in the mirror universe. The design of the Tardigrade had to be much earlier based on this photo (which unfortunately is undated) from earlier in the season.

There is no evidence of man-sized Tardigrades prior to that July 12th video in any of Abdin's work. Believe me, I spent more time than I should have digging through his website last night. The more evidence I'm able to drum up, the more I am convinced that this is just two things that developed around the same time. Nothing more. Nothing less.

To be honest - that timeline as you lay it down, would be the very best argument for CBS, and that it truly was just an extremely unlikely coincidence.

It all depends of course on weather that Tardigrade really appeared the first time in this trailer in 2017 (wasn't his game in production since, like, 2015 or something?). If he hadn't published any material with that big blue boy before that, the case would honestly be pretty easy to solve (just wondering though why CBS just doesn't show a picture of the Tardigrade from, say, 10 days before he premiered his trailer and got the case thrown out?)

As far as I'm concerned - the one, big flashing sign was always the Tardigrade and it's use. And only that. "Blue uniforms" and "grey hallways" are pretty much synonymous with the SF genre as a whole - you can take images from "The Expanse" to "Battlestar Galactica", and you'd be able to mash up similar looking images and people next to each other.

The way they both similarly used the Tardigrade though? That's really fuckin' unique and specific. That's why - even though of course not legally binding, but personally, I would need a single argument in favour of CBS, before dismissing his claims.

This timeline of production cycles - assuming there's nothing from Abdin before that date that we missed - might be just that.

 

[Campe]

To be honest - that timeline as you lay it down, would be the very best argument for CBS, and that it truly was just an extremely unlikely coincidence.

It all depends of course on weather that Tardigrade really appeared the first time in this trailer in 2017 (wasn't his game in production since, like, 2015 or something?). If he hadn't published any material with that big blue boy before that, the case would honestly be pretty easy to solve (just wondering though why CBS just doesn't show a picture of the Tardigrade from, say, 10 days before he premiered his trailer and got the case thrown out?)

As far as I'm concerned - the one, big flashing sign was always the Tardigrade and it's use. And only that. "Blue uniforms" and "grey hallways" are pretty much synonymous with the SF genre as a whole - you can take images from "The Expanse" to "Battlestar Galactica", and you'd be able to mash up similar looking images and people next to each other.

The way they both similarly used the Tardigrade though? That's really fuckin' unique and specific. That's why - even though of course not legally binding, but personally, I would need a single argument in favour of CBS, before dismissing his claims.

This timeline of production cycles - assuming there's nothing from Abdin before that date that we missed - might be just that.

Thank you for acknowledging that perhaps its possible that it was an unlikely coincidence. That's something!

As for evidence from Abdin's site, have at it. I'm done digging through his stuff. There's something offputting about it. I don't know what that is, honestly.

 

[Rahul]

Thank you for acknowledging that perhaps its possible that it was an unlikely coincidence. That's something!

Well, I never thought it was impossible to be a coincidence. Just very unlikely, and what I needed was a single, convincing argument for it. And "extremely unlikely because game so obscure" or "opion piece from guy who owns a website" simply weren't things to convince me personally. As I said - I needed something of substance from CBS to strengthen their position.

Now I thought that would be a design document or something, just anything to prove they came to this idea independantly. But them already filming later episodes before Abdin published his Tardigrade is a pretty strong argument. The only question I have is, if it's really as obvious as that, why nobody (especially CBS) didn't bring it up before? I mean, there are countless conspiracy videos spamming YouTube with that - having such a killer argument would have been pretty usefull against that, right?

What I'm saying is - I'll still keep my mind open in the other direction - if it suddenly came to light Abdin published a similar Tardigrade-heavy trailer or screenshots already earlier than that, I'll probably see his side as very likely again. But lacking that - it truly looks like it really was just a dumb coincidence at this point.

As for evidence from Abdin's site, have at it. I'm done digging through his stuff. There's something offputting about it. I don't know what that is, honestly.

To be honest - mad props for you digging that deep into that shit. Why don't CBS just hire you as their lawyer?

 

[cultcross]

Because then they'd have to pay a fortune for his time when they have no obligation to defend themselves until the plaintiff makes a case, which is the whole point we've been trying to make. Their good lawyer will tell them to basically ignore it until there is actual evidence, and just fulfill the minimal requirements of the court.

 

[Campe]

Why don't CBS just hire you as their lawyer?

Because then they'd have to pay a fortune for his time when they have no obligation to defend themselves until the plaintiff makes a case, which is the whole point we've been trying to make. Their good lawyer will tell them to basically ignore it until there is actual evidence, and just fulfill the minimal requirements of the court.

And I don't have a JD.

@cultcross is right though. The moment Abdin's attorney produces an iota of evidence, CBS will completely incinerate him and his argument with a mountain of concept art, pre-viz and effects work. Its just not necessary at this point.

 

[cultcross]

CBS will completely incinerate him and his argument with a mountain of concept art, pre-viz and effects work. Its just not necessary at this point

The other thing is that is all their confidential business material, and probably the content of a future book. Why should they have to spaff it all over the internet because someone makes allegations without evidence?

 

[DaveyNY]

Oops. Got my vocabulary mixed up there.

Actually, the definition of Imperious could well fit in this particular case.

 

[Krandor]

Now I thought that would be a design document or something, just anything to prove they came to this idea independantly. But them already filming later episodes before Abdin published his Tardigrade is a pretty strong argument. The only question I have is, if it's really as obvious as that, why nobody (especially CBS) didn't bring it up before? I mean, there are countless conspiracy videos spamming YouTube with that - having such a killer argument would have been pretty usefull against that, right?

They did make that argument in the court filings.... CBS is fighting this is court not on youtube and court of public opinion. The only video of the tardigrate hugging was 2 months before discovery aired AND DID NOT MENTION INSTANTANIOUS SPACE TRAVEL.

Second, in just one of the Tardigrades related videos, there is a 13-second sequence in which an enlarged blue tardigrade appears behind Plaintiffs Carter character, hugs him from behind and drifts offinto space (Video Compilation at 29:20-33): K https://www.youtube.com/wpyiTtt5ikHgCwM84LY https://www.youtiSDe.co^^Stch?v ll = ikHgCwM84LY

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This “tardigrade-hug” sequence appears only in this single video (available at the above-referenced URL, https://www.voutube.com/watch?v=ikHgCwM84LY). which was posted to YouTube on July 12, 2017, just two months before Discovery aired. (Hwang Decl. ^ 14, Ex. 13). This is the same sequence depicted on the first and eighth pages ofPlaintiffs 2018 Treatment. (TAC, Ex. A).

As with the treatment, little information is provided in the Video Compilation concerning the significance ofthe tardigrade. Only a single blog post provides any relevant information, noting the proven scientific facts that tardigrades can “survive extreme conditions of radiation and the vacuum of space.” (Video Compilation at 38:49). Apparently for these reasons, Plaintiffs tardigrade-hug system works to protect the human occupant while floating through space. Though this blog post references “space travel,” no mention is made anywhere in the 2018 Treatment or in any of the materials contained in the Video Compilation that Plaintiffs tardigrade is capable of “instantaneous” space travel, as incorrectly alleged in the complaint. (TAC ^ 24).

 

[cultcross]

Actually, the definition of Imperious could well fit in this particular case.

Alright, we've belaboured that insult enough.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I'm calling it now Tardigrades are going to be the new Dragons

Tardigrade riders of Pern
The Girl with the Tardigrade Tattoo
Tardigrades Den
George R.R Martin will write a book detailing the history of the previously unmentioned House Tardigaryen who had the ability to ride tardigrades,

 

[DaveyNY]

Alright, we've belaboured that insult enough.

You're quite right...
And too, the conversation in question.
My apologies.

Anyway...,
Checking the court docket as of 9am this morning and it's still only showing the March 12th memorandum from the CBS lawyer as the last legal process in the case.
No decision from the Judge yet.

 

[cultcross]

George R.R Martin will write a book detailing the history of the previously unmentioned House Tardigaryen who had the ability to ride tardigrades,

And never finish it

 

[Krandor]

When re-reading the court document, I noticed one thing I missed the first time.

In one of his videos, Abdin actually used part of the opening from Dune. I always thought Ripper reminded me more of the guild navigator then Abdin's stuff but that makes me wonder if Abdin took inspiration from Dune when he lifted their opening narration.

 

[Krandor]

George R.R Martin will write a book detailing the history of the previously unmentioned House Tardigaryen who had the ability to ride tardigrades,

We'll all be die of old age waiting for him to finish it.

 

[DaveyNY]

When re-reading the court document, I noticed one thing I missed the first time.

In one of his videos, Abdin actually used part of the opening from Dune. I always thought Ripper reminded me more of the guild navigator then Abdin's stuff but that makes me wonder if Abdin took inspiration from Dune when he lifted their opening narration.

Pretty much.
I wondered early on while doing my own fact-finding, if there could be a counter suit against Abdin from the DUNE Estate if he were to actually publish the game with that included.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

When re-reading the court document, I noticed one thing I missed the first time.

In one of his videos, Abdin actually used part of the opening from Dune. I always thought Ripper reminded me more of the guild navigator then Abdin's stuff but that makes me wonder if Abdin took inspiration from Dune when he lifted their opening narration.

Yeah, the blatant ripoff of Princess Irulan's opening narration in Lynch's Dune is one of the lulzier aspects of this whole fiasco.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

And never finish it

We'll all be die of old age waiting for him to finish it.

And yet he wrote 'Fire and Blood' a book nobody asked for and which is thick as a brick and had it published. WTF?

 

[Krandor]

Yeah, the blatant ripoff of Princess Irulan's opening narration in Lynch's Dune is one of the lulzier aspects of this whole fiasco.

Somehow I missed that earlier.

plus add in that abdin didn't create the first life size tardigrade nor the first spacefaring tardigrad and it doesn't look really all that unique and specific.

 

[Krandor]

Y
Anyway...,
Checking the court docket as of 9am this morning and it's still only showing the March 12th memorandum from the CBS lawyer as the last legal process in the case.
No decision from the Judge yet.

I don't think anybody can credibly make the claim that the judge isn't giving the arguments from abdin due and proper consideration (they still will though the judge rules for CBS)