I believe they had been good guys before stuff had gone bad in the past 100 or so years, maybe?
Cardassians in Enterprise
- Thread starter Snowdrop82
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I guess I never thought of them as ever "good guys," maybe at best like the British Empire around 18th century, bring "culture" to the natives. But still better than the the Orwellian culture they had in TNG and DS9.
It’s likely that an ENT episode based around Cardassians might involved lost Hebitan artifacts, or the poet Iloja of Prim. As Iloja lived on Vulcan, it’s entirely possible that Iloja was friends with T’Pau or Soval, or other members of the Vulcan Council.
When it comes to the question of dictatorship, it’s a question of if the Detapa Council was powerless from the beginning and the civilian leadership was for show like their legal system. Or if the Detapa Council had power and it was degraded over centuries. Since the First Republic was formed by the early 23rd century, and the totalitarian military dictatorship was in full force in the early 24th century.
The Detapa Council, Central Command and Obsidian Order would have been around for 300 years by the time of ENT.
When it comes to the question of dictatorship, it’s a question of if the Detapa Council was powerless from the beginning and the civilian leadership was for show like their legal system. Or if the Detapa Council had power and it was degraded over centuries. Since the First Republic was formed by the early 23rd century, and the totalitarian military dictatorship was in full force in the early 24th century.
One of the things I am very interested in is the relations between the Federation and Cardassians before the war in the 24th century and how the relations gradually declined. I can imagine both were trade partners if not allies but as the dictatorship grew in power relations became more strained.
i'm fairly sure it was centuries before DS9 took place.
Cardassia would almost certainly have to have been a dictatorship well before it ever made contact with the Federation.
Indeed, didn't Gul Madred once say that the situation was quite dire even when he was a child? He did mention that he and his friends had to scrounge for food even back then.
The times when Cardassians were the peaceful Hebitians were probably centuries, if not millennia, in the past.
the whole when Tobin Dax lived is confusing.
Memory-Alpha says he was joined in the 23rd Century because a blurry screen in DS9 apprently says Lela died in 2226, but the same screen also says Torias was the host after her, not Tobin. Same screen also says there was Whorfin Dax before Lela, which is just a Buckeroo Banzai easter egg.
The novels have Tobin being joined in the mid 22nd Century.
Memory-Alpha says he was joined in the 23rd Century because a blurry screen in DS9 apprently says Lela died in 2226, but the same screen also says Torias was the host after her, not Tobin. Same screen also says there was Whorfin Dax before Lela, which is just a Buckeroo Banzai easter egg.
The novels have Tobin being joined in the mid 22nd Century.
But it’s not.
Both Lela and Tobin existed in the mid-22nd century. Lela was the first host in 2168, Tobin is after, then Torias, and the host retains the memories of the previous host. So Torias would recall Tobin’s involvement in the Earth-Romulan War, and Tobin’s friendship with Ambassador Skon.
Maybe Tobin was joined for only several months in 2226 before dying.
Even with Wharfin Dax predating Lela, maybe he stole the Dax symbiont? There is precedent of a symbiont being stolen i.e. Verad. A host recalls the memories of those that stole the symbiont too. Considering that a Trill story was considered for a fifth season of ENT, maybe Archer met Wharfin?
There's also a massive gap between the birth of the Dax symbiont in 2018 and Lela hosting it in 2168. I think we are expected to accept that symbionts swim in the Caves of Mak'ala until they are ready to be joined.
I think of the exchange in Chain of Command, Part 2:
chakoteya.net said:
This makes it sound like the change to militarism and expansionism had happened within Madred's own lifetime.
Of course, this was before DS9 retconned, I mean explained, more about the history of the Detapa Council, Central Command, etc. etc.
Kor
"Wharfin Dax" was just an in-joke. It's no more canon than the hamster-on-a-wheel being the source of power on the Ent-D. Or the rubber duck.
Canonically, Lela was indeed the first host.
Perhaps it was some Trill data entry person's way to fill in the boring hours/identify problems with the system - make up a fake person and see how long it takes for the phony record to be noticed. Or an ID file template that got accidentally uploaded.
I don't think the two need to be at odds.
The changeover in Cardassian society may have been more gradual. There may have been the old Cardassian government that had fallen from power and removed with the new one, establishing the Detapa Council and Central Command...
But... that doesn't mean the Central Command immediately took over everything. The Detapa Council may have been much more powerful earlier on, but the military was chipping away at it. I envision it as something of a three way struggle... the civilian Detapa Council, Central Command and Obsidian Order were vying for total control for a few centuries, with the Central Command eventually winning out and the Detapa Council becoming essentially irrelevant.
Totally. I think they went full 1984 in recent years, and 200 years ago that wouldn't have been the case but I just wouldn't want them to be like Starfleet exploring the cosmos or any of that sweet and nice nonsense, but still kind of a smug bunch of pricks. Sort of to say you could draw a through line of them ending up becoming that dystopian state when everything went to shit.
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